steering wander

[hutch]

Took my 6month old baby to dealer today and said I thought that it wandered more than my past ford pickup. Left it and came back later and it had a new gear box and stabilizer put on. Then sent it over to alimengt shop. Much better on following the road. First time back to dealer in 5600 miles. You got to love it.

 

[Max340]

If its anything like mine, it'll be back again for the same problem. They ordered the second new steering box for mine today. THat'll be three for those of you keeping score.

Anyone have any solutions they found? Mine pulls to the right and has a vague feel. Thats twice now the exact same symptoms. Perhaps they are missing the easy adjustment of a "broken in" steering box? Techs verified a sloppy gear box. It allegedly had the Delphi box installed last time, the AF part number.



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Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI

 

[Tim Hayosh]

Max, my Y2k 1500 gasser did the same thing. They replaced the steering column, rotated the tires, and "aligned" it. No help. It pulled so hard to the right, that my shoulder would be in a lot of pain at the end of a long drive. The front tires were all "scalloped" The DC response: "They set 'em up that way at the factory so that if you fall asleep at the wheel, you won't veer into on-coming traffic. " Unbelievable. Had to buy a 3/4 ton just to haul that load of B. S. home! My cure? See the sig below!!! (She's only 2 weeks old!!)

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Tim Hayosh
2001. 5 2500 QC SLT, ETC, A/T, SWB, EBL (Everything But Leather), 4. 10 LS, NV231HD, Tow Package, Camper Group (8800# GVWR), Travel Convenience Group.
FormulaNine.com
-- email address removed --

 

[Dane]

Glad to see DC has started addressing the steering damper when trouble shooting wander problems. It's the most likely suspect when you have wander in a 4x4. My factory damper was going bad at 10K miles. I added a Rancho RS5404 and any hint of wander is gone.

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[Dane]

Brian, Gotta dissagree with your statement -

"A steering damper is designed to absorb sudden inputs - hitting large potholes/rocks etc. "

Not true, they also are put there to keep tires from tracking even small varations in the pavement surface. The wider the tire the more damping necessary to keep the truck from tracking.

DC would not waste the $ adding a damper if it were useless. The problem is the stock dampers are marginal to begin with and go down hill from there.

The Rancho I used made a very noticable difference in my truck with only 10K on the
odo.

90% of the guys complaining about wander on this site have 4x4 trucks. I'll bet at least 50% of them are due to the stock damper being worn.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it #ad
#ad
#ad


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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[NVR FNSH]

Somebody care to explain why a steering damper is required to prevent wander? How many years were trucks built w/o dampers w/o any problems? Why don't steering dampers come from the factory w/steering dampers? My '79 CJ-7 has a soft 4" lift & 33" tires and DOES NOT wander - WITHOUT a steering damper.

A steering damper is designed to absorb sudden inputs - hitting large potholes/rocks etc. Putting a stiffer/larger damper on only covers up the symptoms it doesn't solve the root cause.

Do you guys have the before/after alignment specs? Were Brent's specs used? There has got to be a pattern here - we just need to find it.

Maybe I'm just used to loose steering but I don't have any wandering complaints on the three Ram 2500s I've driven - '96 CTD 4wd, '96 360 V8 4wd, '00 CTD 4wd - at least 25k in each of them.

Brian

 

[Max340]

Ok, lets assume the damper is weak or mushy, and allows wander. Has any one had the damper become stiff, perhaps pushing the truck into the right pull?

I may have a look at how it disconnects and see if the truck still pulls.

 

[DieselDoghouse]

Just to poke a stick in the hornets nest, what about track bar problems as a cause? My understanding is that the track bar keeps the truck centered over the rolling front axle over pavement variations. Otherwise the axle would also tend to 'yaw' and send the front end sideways. OEM bars seem to have a short lifetime-the list of aftermarkets on this site is pretty robust!

 

[Greystoke]

I have had serious wander problems for the last 6 months. Steering wheel turns about 3" before the tires start to move. Seemed to start when I put on the 315/75-16's. #ad
So I performed the track bar diagnostic from the service manual and found it to have 3/16 of play. Picked up a new one from the local DC parts bin, talk about an arm-and-a-leg. Anyway, gonna put it on today and will post the results when I return.

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1999 2500 Forest Green/Driftwood SLT QC 4x4 SWB ETC/Auto, Everything but Snow Plow Prep or Cab Lights, DD True Torque Power Module, K&N, Walker 3", Tuff Country 2" Spacers, Rancho RS9000's, Alcoa Wheels with BFG 315/75-16 AT KO's, 50,000 and counting...

 

[LSMITH]

When my trackbar was sloppy I had steering wander, but the most noticeable problem was ducking and darting in rutted pavement. A sloppy trackbar takes out the tie rod ends too in short order. If I was not in warranty I definitely would not buy a Mopar trackbar. There are lifetime waranty trackbars out there, and also some are rebuildable. Search the forums for brand names and where to get them.

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99 2500 QC 4X4 AUTO SB 24V LARAMIE SLT 3. 5 LSD 285-75-16'S SPA Boost/EGT Everything but leather NRA Member Great Lakes TDR Member

 

[HC]

I added a Rancho RS5404 and any hint of wander is gone.

Dane,
On another thread, some said they had trouble getting the Rancho's mounted, verifying part numbers, etc. and/or had to get parts from other kits to make it fit.
Did you have to do any of this, or was it a simple bolt-on for you?

 

[Greystoke]

Installed a new Mopar track bar and added a Ranch 5404 steering stabilizer today. Track bar was easy, only took 20 min. The Rancho stabilizer was a whole diffrent ball game. The OEM one came off easy, but my new one only had one bolt sleeve the correct size. I had to heat the OEM stabilizer with a torch to get another sleeve. Then it wouldn't fit the Rancho shock eye. A grinder, some grease, and a 2 ton press later I had it in.

Driving impressions? Well, I had serious brake pull before the install and guess what? Still there. Time for some new calipers I think. The steering wheel seems to come back to center much faster now and no clunking noise over bumps. Steering while driving down I-5 seems much better, no more following the ruts in the road.

Rancho RS5404 stabilizer is much tighter then stock. Great addition to my 35" tires. If you decide to get one make sure it includes two sets of sleeves.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Dane,
A steering stabilizer is a shock with 50/50 valving. Shocks are speed sensitive - high speed shaft motion equals more damping - slow speed shaft motion equals little to no damping. A steering stabilizer won't do anything for small variations in road surface/tracking on rain grooves. You need to be looking at the track bar &/or caster depending on what situation causes the wander/shimmy/shake/rattle/roll #ad


Adding the 'stiffer' Rancho stabilizer only covers up the symptoms - kinda like putting a band-aid on the entry of a gun shot wound #ad
It may cover the little hole but it sure isn't gonna do anything to solve the problem.

Brian

 

[MuddFlapp]

Greystroke,

So I performed the track bar diagnostic from the service manual and found it to have 3/16 of play.
[/B]

I looked in my Service Manual and see nothing about track bar diagnostics. Where did you find it? I'm in section 2-15 Suspension.


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Gene Earl, White '97' 3500 Laramie SLT, Ext Cab, LB, 5 SPEED, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 4X4. Isspro Boost and Pyro, (pre-turbo), SW Fuel pressure, in a 3 guage A-Pillar mount. No muffler. K&N filter. (it's a start).

[This message has been edited by MuddFlapp (edited 04-15-2001). ]

 

[Greystoke]

I beleive that the track bar diagnosis was not a part of the earlier service manuals but can also be found here http://dodgeram.org/tech/tsb/1996/02-06-96.htm

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Greystoke:
I have had serious wander problems for the last 6 months. Steering wheel turns about 3" before the tires start to move. Seemed to start when I put on the 315/75-16's. #ad
...

I still say the vast majority of wander and brake pull problems are alignment-related. I had some brake pull and nasty wander for quite a while. Once I found a shop that could perform a good alignment, most of the brake pull and wander went away.

I just replaced the track bar again (40K miles on it). I haven't driven it yet, but the remaining wander should be all but gone now. The old track bar was rattling.

I think some of the wander and pull problems come from the factory toe-out setting: once you get one wheel straight, the other is pulling the truck in its direction, which can get worse when braking. Get the toe set to zero or, perhaps, *slightly* negative. On 4WD, there's also a cam that sets the position of the knuckle in relation to the lower link; this *may* affect caster.

Also, loose components like the track bar, tie rods, steering gear and worn steering shaft all contribute to wander (one has to constantly correct the steering wheel to keep the truck moving in a straight line).

Also, if the toe is not set right, the truck will 'leap' out of ruts once you get the outside edge of a tire up on the side of a rut. A steering damper might reduce this, but the 'leap' is such a low frequency that the damper really shouldn't see it. And should you try to stop the truck with the edge of one wheel on the side of a rut, you will likely experience nasty brake pull if the toe is set wrong.

Now that I've replaced the steering gear and the track bar, I need to get the front brakes, bearings and ball joints done. I think I have a bad bearing , and one lower ball joint is just about worn out. Even now, over the worst roads, my truck tracks pretty darn straight. It mostly ignores ruts, and the steering is nicely responsive.

90K miles on my '98, and I'm ready to go another 100K. I suppose in another post I'll list all the work I've done since I bought the truck in '97 (it ain't much).

And if anyone wants a set of interim shocks for his truck, I just took off a set of KYBs; they've got 75K miles on them. They're still good; they simply loosened up a *little* too much for my taste (I'm picky!).

Fest3er

 

[TDragna]

GREYSTOKE--I'm trying to install my Rancho 5404 stabilizer and I'm stuck trying to remove the OEM stabilizer. Does the OEM bolt sleeve and stabilizer come off as one unit? If so how do you remove the bolt sleeve? Any help would be appreciated. #ad


d



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97-2500-CC-4X4-Auto-Tsted-4"exh. -16cm-Psycotti air-gauges

 

[NVR FNSH]

Dane,
Do Vette's, BMWs, MBs all come with steering stabilizers? Some of them have pretty wide tires and would seem susceptible to tracking those small variations #ad


Just messing with you... .

Brian

 

[Dane]

Brian, You are comparing apples to oranges. It is foolish to think the different suspension designs are all the same and there for would all have the same need (or not) for steering damping. A good example is the Ram 2wd vs 4wd. There is no need for a damper in the 2wd. The 2wd Ram steering/suspension is completly different than the 4wd. I don't feel the need for a ******* match with you, but would suggest you bone up on suspension design. The damper is there for good reason on the 4x4, even with stock size tires. Not all 4x4s (Jeep) need them due to difference in steering design, weight of vehical, etc. Your example of self adjusting shocks is incorrect because in addition to adjustible valving, they also have constant damping. Other wise if compressed slow they would offer no resistance. Indeed some of the folks are in need of more than a simple damper change, but I'm reading too many posts where folks have spent big bucks changing every thing in the suspension/steering but the damper on a 4x4 Ram. It should be the first thing changed on a 4x4 Ram with wander problems and less than 30K on the odo.

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[NVR FNSH]

Wow. Dane I sure didn't mean to get you that fired up - I guess my intended humour didn't translate via the keyboard very well. My apologies.

What was the criteria used for determining that you steering damper was going bad?

You are correct - the 2wd & 4wd Rams have different suspension & steering systems. However, there are several parameters in common - toe in/out, camber & caster. These are the parameters that are adjustable and have the most impact on steering feel/wander/stability. I still say replacing the steering damper is a band-aid for steering wander - tire pressure, tire make/model & a proper alignment should be the first suspects. BTW - I'm assuming by wander you mean constantly requiring minor corrections - the truck is 'overshooting' your intended change or drifts for no apparent reason. Wander is not a sudden input, a damper will barely even notice the shaft speed and therefore provide little resistance. A tire blow out, pot hole, etc will cause high speed travel of the damper shaft & thus the damper will do it's job - dampen the oscillation. Unless the tie rod is moving the damper won't do anything. I don't know about you but I sure as hell don't move the steering wheel fast enough or far enough at +30mph for the damper to have much effect.

"Not true, they also are put there to keep tires from tracking even small varations in the pavement surface. The wider the tire the more damping necessary to keep the truck from tracking. "

How does a steering damper prevent wander when there is little to no shaft motion?

I was not referring to any variable damping in the previous post - 50/50 only means equal damping in both directions.

Do a search on my name and I think you'll come up with plenty of posts that will clarify my 'credentials' and experience with Dodge front end problems.

I've fretted over this long enough. Again, I apologize if I offended you.

Brian