Stick vs. Auto? Which is better?

[Davison]

I have a good neighbor who is ordering a new Ram 2500 QC SB - He wanted stick, then the dealer tells him an Automatic would be better. What do you think?

Also, which rear end would you mate with an automatic 354 or 410 and LSD or not?

This truck will be for general use and towing his boat or tent trailer, both are less than 5,000#.

Thanks

Rich

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2001. 5 2500 SLT+, QC/LB 4x4, ETH, 6spd, 3:54 LSD, camper/tow equip. , NV241HD, Bright Silver, Snug Top, Ispro w/3 pod pillar w/tweeter, Pyro, Boost & Mag Hytec cover w/temp guage, "Plain Wrap" (no decals or emblems)

 

[Pete Peterson]

Rich, this will be your friends choice but the auto is good for all round use, and if he isn't going to tow heavy then the 3:54 gear will be good for all the empty driving. If he thinks he might move up a little in weight then the auto with the 4:10's is the only way to go. If he wants a stick then have him get the ETH/DEE combo with the 3:54 gears and he'll be able to tow to his hearts content!! The 6 speed and HO motor with the 4:10s is a monster truck for towing and would be over kill for his little load, BUT it will tow ANYTHING!!!! Get the LSD with whatever truck he orders, it is available with either ratio. Pete

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01. 5 Loooaded up!!!!!

 

[LSMITH]

The replys you get on auto or stick will be interesting to follow. Personnaly, I know that the next one I get will be a 5 speed. If your friend does a lot of highway and freeway driving I would get the 3. 54. LSD is not an option with either ratio, it is an absolute MUST HAVE!

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99 2500 QC 4X4 AUTO SB 24V LARAMIE SLT 3. 5 LSD 285-75-16'S Everything but leather NRA Member

 

[Deezal Man]

Personal preference is usually a deciding factor here. Naturally everyone's got an opinion... And I've owned quite a few of each style... So here's mine.

Pros of an Auto:
1. More traffic friendly. In both traffic jams and city lights.
2. If you are prone to broke body parts.
3. If you like to drink "fluids" or talk a cell phone while in driving in example #1. "Not that I condone this practice. . "
4. Someone in your family can't drive a manual.
5. You require a designated driver from time to time.
6. You get a really great cupholder in place of the manual shifter.
7. Your just tired of shifting. .

Cons:
1. Ram's TC isn't exactly a bulletproof unit, especially if you are considering "bombing".
2. Almost zero hold back on hills. (poor fluid coupling at low RPMs)
3. Requires mods or a different TC to use an exhaust brake.
4. Poor Fluid coupling makes the Cummins feel "less" powerful than it really is.
5. slightly less fuel economy.

Manual transmission Pros:
1. No mods necessary for an exhaust brake
2. downshifting (hold back)
3. More bulletproof in factory form.
4. More gears than an auto. Better for towing.

Cons:
1. Your never done shifting. If you consider that to be a "con".
2. The exact opposite of just about every "pros" for getting an automatic.

Resale value is generally slightly lower on a manual transmission... but I'm not sure this is the case here because it is used as a work/tow vehicle.

I presently own an auto, but I would would buy a 6 speed next time. I feel that it brings out the best in the Cummins. OMO

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC 285-75-16's on Alcoa's. Everything but leather. PIAA 1200's, AMSOIL dual filter relocation system, Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs, Rhino Liner(Junk), K&N air filter(For Sale)15 year AMSOIL dealer. Time permitting, Soon to include Ultra-lite Pyro,0-50lbs boost, Trans temp in the pillar. Rancho 9000's with in cab adjustment.

 

[Deezul1]

Unless you drive a lot of heavy traffic and hardly ever tow the manual is a great choice. It lives a LOT longer. Check the various threads on the auto/manual debate and lotsa guys regret the auto because of reliability problems.

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96 SLT Laramie CC 5spd, 3. 54, no muff, no cat, 5"turn down tip
. Member NRA/USPSA

 

[DavidD]

Deezelman, You nailed it! I ditto that I would stick with the 354's with either trans only pulling a tent trailer or boat. You wont even now its there. I like to shift so the auto was out for me and my dearler tried also to talk us into the auto, I am glad I choose the stick as I live in the mountains and tow a 9's#trailer. Good luck!

98. 24V QC,SWB,5sp, BD-exhaust, BD brake, power mod. , Gauges, rancho 9's,315's on ultra alloys, step and pioneer head unit.

 

[Wiredawg]

Rich:

I drive in DC traffic and I love my 6spd w/3. 54. I also tow a 15K lb 5th wheel. I bought my truck used, so I never had a chance to drive one w/ a 4. 10.

I'm also glad I didn't get an automatic. My '96 Ram's auto went out at 63K miles, was driven like a car (no towing) and was serviced by the dealer per the maint sched.

Standard all the way! #ad


Wiredawg

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2000 4X4 SLT QC 8' bed; 6 spd, 3. 54 ; BD exhaust brake and 4" exhaust syst; TST PM2; Airlift Super Duty rear air bags; RS 9000 shocks; pyro/boost gauges in 2 gauge a-pillar mount; back preasure gauge mounted under dash; KN air filter; Brown's Welding brush/grill guard, rear bumper & headache rack; nerf bars and aluminum roll top rear cover, Warn front receiver and Hadley air horns, 20K Reese hitch.

 

[David_VT]

For this application, the 3. 54's are an easy choice.

As to the transmission, everybody is going to have their own . 02 for you. In most cases everyone is 'right' in their choice. In the end it will be a personal choice, hopefully bases on our input and your/his driving experience.

For me I went with the 5spd. To many problems with other autos and I just did not want anything to get between my new Cummins and the road. This was not a scientific choice, but I have no regrets. Once I install Joe's clutch I expect years of trouble free shifting!!

I've driven in some nice HOT automatic Rams and do believe you can built up a dodge auto to take the high hp of the bomb'd trucks.

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99' SB 4x4 : DDI's, HOT PE, SPA dual gauge, ESPAR, Line-X OTR, Ladder bars, AMSOIL, etc (GPS,Cell,CB,... . )
Green Monster

 

[Dane]

Deezal Man - You forgot the turbo music with a stick! #ad
You know that cool turbo whistle at part throttle #ad
And what about the the upshifts? I shift some times just to hear it #ad
The stick and auto are light years apart in the "driver experience"

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[WCrovo]

I think everybody knows how I feel. The stick is the only way to fly. Take it one step further and do the ETH/DEE combo. I have never towed with 4. 10's but have been very happy with a GVWR of 17,000+ with 3. 54's and the ETH/DEE combo. I have said this so many times and I know you auto guys will get p'd off and that is not my intention, I was an auto guy once also, but the auto is a unrelieable hunk with a huge gap between 3rd and O/D. As far as LSD, bag it and do the ARB's for a real locker if you even need it. My truck is superior in the ice and snow without LSD and with the ARB's you make the call when necessary(I feel a locking rear end is a plus as long as the driver choses when to apply,an ARB would be a NSD no slip diff) If you dont't tow and get rid of your truck every couple of years and don't put many miles on it the auto would be OK. Not to mention the Dana 80. Sorry if I upset anyone and I hope you have better luck with your autos than I did with mine.

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2001 2500 tow, camper, SWB, ETH/DEE, 3. 54 Bright white,4 wheel discs.

 

[madams]

Davison;

Deezal Man's comments are right on . . very neutral biased and a great presentation of the facts.

The dealer is trying to get another 1200 bucks out of him. If he want's the stick, tell him its the right choice!

With my 3:54 I turn about 2150rpm's @ 70. With the 4:10 you'll turn about 2400 rpm's. Which do you think gets the better fuel ecomomy? Manual calculations . . not the false heads up computer average numbers . . I get 19. 5 - 21 (65-72) highway, 16 +- a half in New Orleans City driving. If he plans to put bigger / taller tires then do the 4:10.

Through all these comments . . keep one thing in mind. Make note of how many auto owners say they'll get a stick next time . . compared to the other way.

My . 02 cents. I took the other approach. Unless you NEED a auto . . stick with the stick!

I had many auto's . . got good serivce from them . . but they were all in automobiles, and I traded out around 80k miles. My last truck was a 5sp ranger 4cyl. Easy transmission / clutch . . until I experienced the 5sp in my 2500.

You don't need to rev the engine and carefully ease out the clutch to get the beast going. Push in the clutch, pull it in 2nd and with no fuel ease out the clutch. In no time you get the hang of it. The hardest thing to learn was not to feather the fuel peddle as you're letting out the clutch.

This 5speed / clutch setup is the easiest manual I EVER drove. And unless you live in a area where the bumper to bumper traffic requires you to ride your brakes home . . the manual is a better option especially for the 3/4 ton cummins.

Where modest city traffic is common, the granny 1st is perfect . . I can walk faster than the truck when it's in 1st and clutch out. Great for creeping.

My wife feared the standard when we went for a test drive . . I had to FORCE her to drive it. After about 3 traffic light starts . . she had the pattern down. And she said "Not Bad . . this is easier to drive than the little Ranger"

If your buddy plans to tow . . there's no doubt . . stick! An exhaust brake is an easy adder . . no transmission mods necessary . . just bolt it up.

Not even one regret with the manual decision. Wish I could convince the wife I need a new ETH 6 speed though.

Have your buddy take a nice drive in it . . not just around the block. I'd be suprised if he hated it.

Michael


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00 Driftwood 2500 ST QC ISB LB 5spd 3:54 LSD Tow & Camper Groups

my photos

[This message has been edited by madams (edited 02-01-2001). ]

 

[Cooker]

My turn,
I have an auto and I hate it in it's, currently stock state. At this moment I wish I had a stick. Although soon it will have DTT parts in it and I hope I like it after that. If he like's driving a stick then get a stick. Certainly he won't be unhappy with it's performance.

If he intends to keep the stock 245's or even put the 265's on it then the 3. 54 gears will be great for him. Didn't see mention of a 4x4 so I guess the 285's might be out of the question as far as fitment. Shoot if it's not gonna be a 4x4 I'd stick with the 3. 54's for sure.

LSD or no. If he is going to do any daily driving in the snow then I'd have to say no for sure. Even though an LSD provides traction to both wheels he will find it more likely to get squirelly (SP?) in the snow causing a loss of control. It sure makes it more fun though. The LSD on a daily driver in a snowy climate is a bad idea IMO.

 

[Patvair]

I have an auto with the 3. 55 rear end and love it!! I pull an open car trailer at around 4500lbs and it is great. I havent checked the mileage towing but empty on the open road running 70mph I have gotten 21. 5 loaded (joke) with 400lbs of concrete two people and luggage. The manual guys who like to shift i'm sure would argue but I'm 110% satified with my auto, no mater wich you choose as long as it's Dodge with 24 valves.

 

[Hank Cheyne]

I just today traded my 99 auto off on a 2001 5 spd and I would not buy another auto. My biggest complaint was the shifting up and down when you let up on the throtle for a corner... . which we have alot of. Also the auto's are alot harder on brakes..... trust me I know 1st hand.

 

[ACoyle]

I have a '99 auto - 4 X $ 4. 10. I could have done without the LSD. I am reading enough posts on this site saying that they A) Don't usually work, and B) get squirley. I was in about 2' of hard plowed snow last week. The LDS did nothing.

As to the trans, it's a deeply personal choice. I an scheduled for me DTT TC & VB on Tuesday next.

AS IS!!! This is the best ride I've ever had! The stick might have some advantage for towing, I'm looking to DTT to level that playing field. My 3500 is in New York City traffic every day, much to the chagrin of the sub compacts.

 

[David_VT]

I'll second skipping the LSD also if you will have alot of ice time. (especially if you go with 2WD)

On one hand it is fun to high center the rig on a snow bank and leave the truck idling in 4wd. Sure enough all the wheels will turn. (don't try this without someone at the wheel in the cab)

On the other hand, having the rear end walk out and try to leave you in a ditch one two many times, does leave you with a distinct bad feeling about the LSD rearend.

As to the 'wife' driving the stick, once she discovered how hard it is to stall the mighty Cummins, leaving a traffic light is as easy as simply lifting the clutch pedal. One need not touch the gas pedal to get the beast rolling!

 

[MikeR]

I live in the 3rd worst traffic in America... . Seattle! My 6spd is the easiest thing to drive,you only use two gears in heavy traffic... 2nd and 3rd. To me,in traffic it is easier to work the clutch pedal behind this diesel than it is to hold down a brake pedal on an automatic.

Also,a stock clutch will live a very long time with 300hp going through it (you'll never have to touch the trans itself). The automatic will get torn up with most anything over stock HP unless you sink big $$ to make it work.

-Mike

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'00 2500QC,4x4,LWB,Dark Garnet,6spd,3. 54lsd,SLT,DD stage II,Psychotty air,10-level PM3,Jacobs ebrake,Isspro pyro & boost gauges,2wd-low,Airoquip fuel lines,Smittybilt nerfs,BFG 285/75 AT's,Midland cb,Clarion 6-disc changer

 

[CWade]

Rich,
If your friend takes the high output version (which only comes with the six speed manual) for a test drive, the only decision he'll have to make is the color.

Charlie

01 3500 4X2 HO 6spd 3. 55 Jacob's brake Patriot blue