Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Stock turbo, max h.p.?

[JyRO]

Howdy Fellers!



What is about the max h. p. I could get out of my ETC with the stock turbo (HX-35?)? I've got a 6 speed and yes the clutch would be the concern. I'm thinking I've heard of low to mid 400's with the stock turbo. But I'm not interested in running anything but good ole #2 through it. Can I get 400 h. p. to the tires with #2? Which boxes / injector combos will get to the max level for the stock turbo?



Thanks!



- JyRO

 

[Forrest Nearing]

at the very least you're gonna need a bigger turbine housing... you don't have to spend a ton of money on a turbo... you could probably put an HX40 on there for $600-800... or maybe one of the popular hybrids in that price range... sell your stock turbo for $200-300, and you're in business... after selling off my stock turbo, it cost me all of $285 to put the HX40 on my truck INCLUDING the downpipe!



Forrest

 

[KLockliear]

You can get into the low to mid 400's with the stock turbo, but the power won't be very useable on the road.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I thought a fair number of guy were running Comps, injectors and larger exhaust, putting them pretty close to the 400 HP mark - not heard any "usability on the road" issues...

 

[JyRO]

KEEP STOCK TURBO...

Same here Gary. I haven't heard of useability problems



Forest. I'm not interested in being told to go take a flying leap by the dealer in the case I have some issue before 100k miles. I've got about 43k left on the warranty, a new turbo would be a dead give away. I'm also not interested in making a dealer pay for something that's my fault for adding power. But in the case such as a LP, or other non related drivetrain parts failing, I don't want to give the dealer an excuse. I'd like to get ~350 to ~400 rwhp of useable power (to be used as maturely as it *could* be).



What's the best box to run with RV275's for power?

What's the best injectors to run with an EZ for power?



I'm thinking along the lines of EZ with DD2's or DD3's... .



Maybe they'll both (EZ & 275's) need to go, that's what I wanna know.



- JyRO

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I totally understand wanting to stay under warranty!!!



a hybrid with a wastegated 16cm turbine housing would appear stock from outward appearance, and you could always swap your stock turbo back on if there was a catastrophic failure.



but, I can still totally understand staying 100% stock.



if anything, you might talk with your service guy and ask about putting a bigger turbine housing on your stock turbo... explain that you want to do it for better mpg and lower EGT while towing.



the "usability" problems generally just mean high EGT's... it's no fun when you gotta get off the skinny pedal just when things are getting good!



Forrest

 

[RustyJC]

See my signature for results of the "EZ/DD2" approach with the stock HX35W-12. We tow a 13,500 lb 5th wheel with livable EGTs with this combination.



Rusty

 

[Froadin]

I still have 25k on my warranty, and don't want to swap out a turbo within that time frame either.

The VA and 275's work well together, but I can't adjust the VA like you can the EZ (at least the VA CPC version that I have).

I have been trying to decide between EMD Mach 1. 5's or Mach 2's for my next injectors. But I will want to keep it inline with the ability of the turbo, fuel system, etc. If I had a box that I could adjust, I think that the mach 2's would be a great fit for what I want, and still be able to tow medium to heavy.

The 275's are a great injector, they just don't have a lot up top when you run them with a box. (My opinion of course).

 

[KLockliear]

I can't see any stock turbo truck at 400hp being able to use all 400hp on the road without EGT issues.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

With water you could maximize it for sure.



Jim

 

[KLockliear]

You could add nitrous to it too, hell even do a cam and throw more fuel at it, but the bottom line is if the guy doesn't have the ching to do a turbo, I'd bet most of the rest is out the window too.



All these things are just band-aids to the problem of not enough air coming from the turbo for that amount of power.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

while I love a turbo and more boost for the sheer simplicity, I don't really feel that water is a band-aid... it adds complexity to the truck, but there really aren't any downsides other than the hit to the wallet and having to refill the resovoir every now and again...



I mean... an intercooler isn't a band-aid is it?



when it comes to nitrous, I'd rather just put the money into a turbo or turbos... nitrous is like crack and almost as expensive! but water is free



Forrest

 

[JyRO]

KLockliear - Its not about the ching. If I wanted the baddest truck on the road I could be right there with anybody. Personally I have no problem with anybody doing whatever they want with their truck. However, I can think of other ways I prefer to donate large amounts of coin.



The point of this topic is that I'd like to boost my h. p. up to about as max as I can go with the stock turbo without E. G. T. concerns (thanks Forest) & without spending major coin. It looks like for me that I'll need to go more like the route that Rusty has gone. I can keep my EZ, add DD2's and maybe some air filter mods.



But, you big h. p. guys will know more than me. You may say something to the effect, "if you want to keep your stock turbo, such and such mods are about the best you can do while keeping your EGT's from going way outta control. " That's what I'm looking for.



Forest, I apprieciate the points you've made on the hybrid turbos. But, I am trying to avoid major coinage. I realize I could get a bigger turbo, or hybrid for not much, if I sell my stock turbo. But I wouldn't sell it. I'd keep it. Therefore I'd have to spend a lot of money on a bigger turbo or hybrid. Just wanting to make a step up from ~300/650, to something like 375/775.



- JyRO

 

[DwayneKelch]

JyRO,



Just recently went down the same road you are traveling now. Wanted to add more horsepower/torque, but wasn't sure how much.



First, and most important, was maintaining my fuel mileage. Second, the ability to maintain/control EGTs while I tow (especially in the altitude I live in, 7K+ feet) with stock turbo (HX-35).



I did a lot of research (right here on TDR) on aftermarket parts available and decided on the following:



1. AFE air intake and 4" exhaust to decrease EGTs and allow quicker spool-up of turbo.



2. EDM 1. 5s to develop more horsepower while maximizing fuel economy (when compared to other aftermarket injectors... so I'm told) and decreased smoke.



3. Diesel Dynamics TTPM. Right now, the box is set on position 1 (timing only). If set any higher, I was able to slip the clutch and had waaaay to much smoke... took 12+ pounds of boost to start clearing up.



4. Bigger fuel lines from tank to injection pump to prevent back pressure, thereby increasing fuel pressure throughout rpm range when accelerating.



This setup has allowed me to tow (approx 7K pounds), regularly, without any EGT problems over 10K foot elevation.



My fuel economy is still the same before starting to modify my truck... 20+ miles to the gallon (straight #2, not blended). I have a lot more power than I use to... puts a smile on your face when accelerating hard. Can't believe how quick I can go from 70 to 90 mph now.



Although fun to play, I have come to realize that I have more horsepower/torque than I need when not towing. I have to be careful not to get any tickets, insurance rates are high enough as is. Plan to dyno my truck this weekend. Based on other similar setups, I expect to see 340-350 RWHP.



For me, the horsepower/torque I have now is perfect. I accomplished what I was after, to have usable power/torque without decreasing fuel economy and having to change to another turbo/turbine.



Good luck in your quest, just keep in mind your goal.





Dwayne

 

[RustyJC]

JyRO,



As you look at my dyno results, bear in mind that I'm hampered on an inertial dyno by my 4. 10 gears. I won't get into the physics of it, but basically the 4. 10's mean that I'm fighting engine and drivetrain inertia when I'm trying to accelerate the drum more than would be the case with 3. 54 gears. Pulling in 5th, I only made about 320 BHP and 650 lb-ft torque. In other words, the drum needs more inertia relative to the crankshaft, flywheel, clutch disk and pressure plate, etc.



My point is that a truck with 3. 54's will probably dyno better than my truck, so take my numbers with a grain of salt.



If I had it to do over, I'd probably go with the DD TTPM and EDM injectors (1. 5 to 2. 0). The EZ/DD2 combination is pretty aggressive in terms of injection timing for heavy towing (IMHO), and it is smokey off boost on a warm day, even down here around sea level!



Rusty

 

[Hohn]

I run the same setup as Rusty does, only with 3. 54s. I dynoed 390rwhp/918lb-ft. Those are a little high to me-- there was a wascally correction factor used (based on NA gassers I think).



I'm probably closer to 350hp/800lb-ft as is Rusty.



The inertial dynos can be tricked by the quality of power delivery. They measure HP and calc tq.



The load dynos measure TQ and calc HP, to Rusty's truck would probably shine there.



The smoke is not that bad imho, and I'm at 6100 feet! I think that the Fitch Fuel Catalyst is primarily responsible for that.



I, too would have gone EDM (1. 5). I also would have gone with a TST box as opposed to the Edge box. Oh well-- the EZ and DD2s is still a good, proven combo.



Smoke is pretty easy to control even in summer. If I disconnect the EZ ad use it as a boost fooler, then I have almost no smoke at all under any circumstances. I was impressed by that.



My truck has been smoking more lately. The replacement EZ that Edge sent me seems to be more aggressive, as it's harder to drive around the smoke than it was with my old EZ.



My EZ toasted and Edge replaced it- no problems. All it cost me was $5 to ship them my old one, and about a week of babying it.



Justin

 

[KLockliear]

I wouldn't shoot for more than 325rwhp if you are trying to use the stock turbo and still be able to tow.

 

[RabidRam]

With a stock turbo, DD SuperMentals, and a Blue Chip FMS fueling box cranked to the max, I put down 418HP. I've also got an AFE and 5-inch stacks. Oh yeah... and a South Bend OFE to get it to the ground. I ALMOST ALWAYS run empty, and granted... it has been pretty cool the past couple of months... but my EGT's have never gotten over 1100.



Hope this answers your question,



Dave

 

[JyRO]

KLockliear - OK. I can use that info. 325 h. p. I'm guessing I'm only about 30 h. p. max from that now. So it shouldn't take much to get to that.



Rusty - The EZ has the 'timing only' programming in it, just like the DD TTPM. Its just not advertised. I had the Edge guy tell me how to set it up for timing only because I thought I may get better fuel mileage from it. It worked like he said. But I didn't really get better fuel mileage because when I'm driving my truck empty down the interstate, even at the most aggressive EZ setting, I'm not running enough boost to be getting anything but timing anyway. So, if the 'timing only' was any more fuel efficient, it was a very very small factor. So I like my EZ, and will probably stick with it. I always run it on the most aggressive setting.



I need to know more about these EDM injectors. Where can I find detailed informaition on them (a website?)? Thanks guys!



- JyRO

 

[RustyJC]

JyRO,



My understanding is that, besides the "timing only" function, the DD TTPM has a timing advance program that's not as aggressive as that in the EZ. In other words, if that's so, the EZ in "timing only" mode would give more timing advance for a particular speed/load than the TTPM. I'm really not worried about injection timing running empty, but heading up that 6% grade at 2350 RPM (70 MPH) in 6th gear with the 5th wheel in tow is a different matter! Maybe Mr. Lockliear will drop by and confirm or refute my timing assumption.



You wouldn't want to PM me the "magic settings" to put the EZ in timing only mode, would you?



Rusty