suggestions for heavy trailer tow

[RCMerrill]

I have a Superglide 5th wheel setup on my 2500 SWB. It is awsum i don`t have to get out of my truck when backing or sharp turns it does it all by it self. If you ever caught the back of your cab on a sharp turn you will wish you had one check online Superglide& watch video you will see.



P. S. 4 pins & I can remove it. nothing sticks out of the bed floor.

 

[Mark31]

Of the six Goodyears that came on my '74 C60 Chevrolet, 2 were bad from the start and 2 or 3 more got "knots" on them. In the 80's, I bought a couple of sets of GY Vectors. After a bunch of problems and "pro-rated" replacements, I "chuncked" 'em. When they were changed out, I ripped the sidewalls so nobody could use them and get as miffed as I did. I haven't darkened a Goodyear store's door since. I had rather have a liar promise me a set of worn out Michelins than to have new set of GYs. Mark

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... ... . <snip> ... ... ... ... ... . I had rather have a liar promise me a set of worn out Michelins than to have new set of GYs. Mark

I have a similar opinion of GY tires.

I believe an old worn set of Michelins will provide better and safer service than a new set of GYs.

 

[Grizzly]

JSzewczyk, Sounds like you put the cart before the horse. You should buy the right truck before you go for a much bigger heavier trailer. No amount of Band-Aid will compensate for the right truck.



It's always better to have too much truck than not enough.

 

[HBarlow]

This is a troubling thread.

JScewczyk, You have not provided any information on the size or GVWR of the trailer you are planning to purchase but from what little you have said, I and others with considerable towing experience think you are making a huge mistake. You have about 1/2 enough truck for the trailer you plan to tow.

Edit: You did mention size and dry weight and dry kingpin weights of the trailer you are planning to buy. I was confusing this thread with the other one you started about Timbrens and airbags.

A toy hauler with a dry weight of 11,400 lbs. or whatever it was is going to weigh 14,000 lbs. or more when loaded. Kingpin weight will be 20 to 25% of GVWR, not dry weight. Why would anyone buy a trailer to haul around empty and dry?

The kingpin weight of the trailer will overload your rear tires and axles and a pickup bed the size of a grocery shopping cart is a very bad choice for towing a heavy fifth wheel toy box.

I hope you don't pay any attention to the post above where the poster said tire ratings should be taken with a grain of salt. That is a completely inaccurate statement. I will go on record as stating he is very wrong and giving very dangerous advice.

If you have not already completed the purchase or trade transaction you would be very wise to cancel it and purchase a much smaller trailer until you have a truck to pull a big one.

 

[bcbender]

If you have not already completed the purchase or trade transaction you would be very wise to cancel it and purchase a much smaller trailer until you have a truck to pull a big one. [/QUOTE]



I agree 100%, I tow at max GVWR 18Klb trailer w a 3500 and I am very glad I went w a 3500 / 4:10 for my use, better safe than sorry, I see it all the time... ... ... .

 

[MChrist]

Jim W, you have a similar truck and similar trailer as the OP has, so I think you would be the most qualified to help the OP. Have you weighed your setup? How does it handle? Do you feel like you have 1/2 as much truck as others say you need? Since the OP has a toy hauler, does the pin weight get lighter since toys get loaded behind the axles?
Yes, a dually would be better for towing this trailer regardless, but the OP doesn't HAVE one. So instead of just saying " I have a dually, so I have no problems" let's try to help the person who is asking for advice on making what he HAS work well and safely.
So, Jim W, do you have helpful advice for Jszewczyk?
Thanks.

 

[HBarlow]

Jim W, you have a similar truck and similar trailer as the OP has, so I think you would be the most qualified to help the OP. Have you weighed your setup? How does it handle? Do you feel like you have 1/2 as much truck as others say you need? Since the OP has a toy hauler, does the pin weight get lighter since toys get loaded behind the axles?
Yes, a dually would be better for towing this trailer regardless, but the OP doesn't HAVE one. So instead of just saying " I have a dually, so I have no problems" let's try to help the person who is asking for advice on making what he HAS work well and safely.
So, Jim W, do you have helpful advice for Jszewczyk?
Thanks.

Another defender of overloaded wannabe trucks!

My advice was as helpful as I could make it. Don't do it!

Is that too hard to understand for you?

 

[Mark31]

The Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The beginning of wisdom for towing, as I see, is going by the published standards for a truck, tires, frame, hitch, controller, and, like Dirty Harry said, a man has to realize his own limits. Then consider how fast you want to go, the terrain you want to travel, your experience in the worst case scenario for your drive, and, most of all, can you stop your rig. I think every "newbie" should take the time to read that "forever running" post on here about the Ford/5th wheel crash in the mountains, not for any reason other than to put a little healthy fear in your bones of what it is we do when we get out of the safety zone with our equipment and with our mind and experience. There are some posters on here that I would get in a 20% overloaded rig with them, go thru unfamliar mountain roads at night, and catch a nap. There are some on here I wouldn't want to ride with in the daytime pulling a lawn mower trailer in familiar flat land. You , me, all of us, need a fear of the Lord, and a healthy dose of understanding of what it is you want to do towing. Take the maximum limits and subtract for terrain, no exhaust brake, no maxbrake, no free spin if you have a 48re, no real world experience. Don't even think about hooking to anything with Chinese tires on it. Learn from others' mistakes, and our (your) own. When we get skid marks in our drawers, and live to tell about, learn from it! My sermon for today. Mark

 

[MChrist]

Thank you, Father Mark. If the beginning of wisdom for towing is going by published standards for truck, tires, frame, etc. . then I must be on my way to becoming smarter... I feel my suggestion was still a sound one. Asking somebody to chime in who has a similar truck/trailer combo what their weights are and how it feels while towing is OBVIOUSLY not helpful... ... ..... but your sermon definitely sets the OP straight. Quick!!REPENT!!!

Now, back to what I said earlier. . Jim W, have you weighed your setup? How does it tow? Do you feel you NEED more truck for what you tow? Will the truck be overweight once toys are loaded behind the trailer axles?
Very clear questions, people. Let's not get all biblical.
Thank you.

 

[JSzewczyk]

I did not buy the toy hauler to haul around empty but I'm willing to do that for safety reasons for 2 to 3 years until I can afford the 1 ton truck. I've been camping for 15 years and always *****ing about not having one of my victory motorcycles with me. I can keep on *****ing for 2 more years and then have the funds to buy a new tow vehicle. I think I can keep the trailer weight down near or under my max allowable tow weight. This thread was not about me pulling my trailer fully loaded to its max of 14,000 lbs. I started this about the king pin weight. I can take clothes and some food and still be under my weight rating. I can run the tanks empty until I get where I'm going and empty them asap. If i confused anyone with my original post, I'm sorry. My thinking is that an air bag (leaning toward Pac Brake) helper system and the Hensley's BD3 hitch (with airbags) will only assist my truck's suspension with the king pin weight. I have put a deposit on the trailer to hold it but the deal is still on hold. I have heard back from others who pull similar weighted trailers with the same two vehicle. I still had my doubts which is why I turned to the forum for insight. in 2006 my truck was rated to pull 12,500 lbs with a payload of 1669 lbs. the 3500 with the same set up was rated for 13,500 but the payload was 2582 lbs. The axel, wheels and tires are he same. Springs are different. I know that some of you are pulling 16k-18k trailers and toy haulers with those 3500 trucks. the kingpin on some of those monsters are closer to 3000 -3200 lbs. any thoughts?

 

[Grizzly]

The Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The beginning of wisdom for towing, as I see, is going by the published standards for a truck, tires, frame, hitch, controller, and, like Dirty Harry said, a man has to realize his own limits. Then consider how fast you want to go, the terrain you want to travel, your experience in the worst case scenario for your drive, and, most of all, can you stop your rig. I think every "newbie" should take the time to read that "forever running" post on here about the Ford/5th wheel crash in the mountains, not for any reason other than to put a little healthy fear in your bones of what it is we do when we get out of the safety zone with our equipment and with our mind and experience. There are some posters on here that I would get in a 20% overloaded rig with them, go thru unfamliar mountain roads at night, and catch a nap. There are some on here I wouldn't want to ride with in the daytime pulling a lawn mower trailer in familiar flat land. You , me, all of us, need a fear of the Lord, and a healthy dose of understanding of what it is you want to do towing. Take the maximum limits and subtract for terrain, no exhaust brake, no maxbrake, no free spin if you have a 48re, no real world experience. Don't even think about hooking to anything with Chinese tires on it. Learn from others' mistakes, and our (your) own. When we get skid marks in our drawers, and live to tell about, learn from it! My sermon for today. Mark

Very good sermon Mark. A word to the wise.

 

[RVTRKN]

I did not buy the toy hauler to haul around empty but I'm willing to do that for safety reasons for 2 to 3 years until I can afford the 1 ton truck. I've been camping for 15 years and always *****ing about not having one of my victory motorcycles with me. I can keep on *****ing for 2 more years and then have the funds to buy a new tow vehicle. I think I can keep the trailer weight down near or under my max allowable tow weight. This thread was not about me pulling my trailer fully loaded to its max of 14,000 lbs. I started this about the king pin weight. I can take clothes and some food and still be under my weight rating. I can run the tanks empty until I get where I'm going and empty them asap. If i confused anyone with my original post, I'm sorry. My thinking is that an air bag (leaning toward Pac Brake) helper system and the Hensley's BD3 hitch (with airbags) will only assist my truck's suspension with the king pin weight. I have put a deposit on the trailer to hold it but the deal is still on hold. I have heard back from others who pull similar weighted trailers with the same two vehicle. I still had my doubts which is why I turned to the forum for insight. in 2006 my truck was rated to pull 12,500 lbs with a payload of 1669 lbs. the 3500 with the same set up was rated for 13,500 but the payload was 2582 lbs. The axel, wheels and tires are he same. Springs are different. I know that some of you are pulling 16k-18k trailers and toy haulers with those 3500 trucks. the kingpin on some of those monsters are closer to 3000 -3200 lbs. any thoughts?

You have the trailer now, so hitch it up and check to see if its over weight, you can add equipment to the rear to see what and where the load shifts to its only pennies on the dollar to do this and it gives youi an idea of what you can actually get away with. Just remeber to stay within the axle ratings period. Start out dry then add a little for toilett and so on. Good luck I don't think your that much over in pin weight that will go over the RAWR but you need to weigh it.

 

[Grizzly]

JSzewczyk, Listen to the advice from Harvey, who is an expert on towing heavy trailers for a living. His advice is rock solid, quote: " My advice was as helpful as I could make it. Don't do it!"



My advice is, purchase the right truck first.



george

 

[d6c]

This is a troubling thread.



JScewczyk, You have not provided any information on the size or GVWR of the trailer you are planning to purchase but from what little you have said, I and others with considerable towing experience think you are making a huge mistake. You have about 1/2 enough truck for the trailer you plan to tow.



Edit: You did mention size and dry weight and dry kingpin weights of the trailer you are planning to buy. I was confusing this thread with the other one you started about Timbrens and airbags.



A toy hauler with a dry weight of 11,400 lbs. or whatever it was is going to weigh 14,000 lbs. or more when loaded. Kingpin weight will be 20 to 25% of GVWR, not dry weight. Why would anyone buy a trailer to haul around empty and dry?



The kingpin weight of the trailer will overload your rear tires and axles and a pickup bed the size of a grocery shopping cart is a very bad choice for towing a heavy fifth wheel toy box.



I hope you don't pay any attention to the post above where the poster said tire ratings should be taken with a grain of salt. That is a completely inaccurate statement. I will go on record as stating he is very wrong and giving very dangerous advice.



If you have not already completed the purchase or trade transaction you would be very wise to cancel it and purchase a much smaller trailer until you have a truck to pull a big one.

HB... I will go on record saying tire ratings SHOULD be taken with a large grain of salt..... stock tires are 80lb tires and have terribly weak sidewalls and casings and make a very poor tire when loaded up heavy... . the suggested sizes in my previous post are much stronger and safer. Tire ratings are for most people, casing construction and tire weight are for the people that actually need something better. Duallys rule when going heavy... but remember lots of guys insist on lift kits and big mud grips and giant toy haulers and seem to think they are just fine at 80 mph... . I DON'T APPROVE.

 

[AClayton]

I tow a 40' Raptor toyhauler and with my RV loaded with my 4 wheelers in back and full of water, gas and belongings, I am right on the limit for RAWR. My tires have a lot extra capacity because I paid extra for load range E tires with the higher 3990lb rating at 80psi. I have towed my trailer a little over 11k miles on interstates, mountain backroads and even some dirt roads. My truck is a SRW but has Pac-Brake air-bags and I have the Max-Brake.



I have a lot of experience towing trailers and don't speed on the highways... ..... especially pulling this heavy. I will admit that when I did approach speeds of 75mph, the truck could certainly benefit from being a dually - without question!! I tow at no more than 65mph and I feel my truck is 'safe' at that speed - my max speed!



Also, I have only had it weighed once and that was before heading to Florida... ... . fully loaded as described above - 22,327lbs total weight. My trailer has an advertised dry weight of 12,340lbs. I think that figure should be closer to 13k with my options and genset. I have stock springs and only need 30psi in the bags to level the truck with my 4 wheelers in the garage. I run 45psi when I go on weekend trips without stuf in the garage - I thought that was important to mention. I'm not certain about this but I'm sure I will be corrected if not true, but the 2nd gen trucks benefited from heavier duty rear springs than the 3rd gens.



Hope this helps!



Alan

 

[HBarlow]

HB... I will go on record saying tire ratings SHOULD be taken with a large grain of salt..... stock tires are 80lb tires and have terribly weak sidewalls and casings and make a very poor tire when loaded up heavy... . the suggested sizes in my previous post are much stronger and safer. Tire ratings are for most people, casing construction and tire weight are for the people that actually need something better. Duallys rule when going heavy... but remember lots of guys insist on lift kits and big mud grips and giant toy haulers and seem to think they are just fine at 80 mph... . I DON'T APPROVE.

I don't disagree that larger tires or even 19. 5" wheels and tires are an improvement on single rear wheel trucks but are you saying that manufacturer's rated tire capacity figures are not to be believed?

What evidence do you offer to prove the engineers are wrong and you are right? Think of all the lawsuits the tire companies would have filed against them if their tires routinely failed at rated weights when properly inflated.

If a LRE tire is inflated to 80psi there will not be a lot of sidewall flex, the air under pressure supports the load, the tire is only the vessel that contains the air.

 

[AClayton]

HB,



I have to side with d6c here only because I have purchased new tires that will have the same exact rating and/or weight capacity at 80psi only to be disappointed with the handling. Not all tires are created equal! In a dually it may not be as noticeable but a SRW truck or van and it can be very annoying.



I guess it would compare to many other subjects also, but the one that comes to mind as an example is tow rating from all 3 manufacturer's. Just because something is rated to do so, does not necessarily mean it does it well.





Alan