Suspension upgrades for on-road comfort that don't cost $3.5k+ ?

[verk]

Hi TDR. A couple of leafs broke in the rear (see attached photo ) which seems a good excuse to upgrade suspension to something more comfortable for my 99% on-road driving with 300lbs. of tools in the bed. But the price of Thuren and Carli stuff can't be justified given the value of my '04 truck. Any cheaper way to realize something worthwhile ( please no extolling the virtues of Thuren or Carli steel ) ? Carli says 15% less capacity than stock payload of 2600 lbs. which is about 2200 lbs. Somebody else make something or why can't I order the needed pieces and assemble for the rating that I want ? And as for the fronts what about the Rancho leveling kit which includes springs,shocks and hardware (RS66450R7) and can be had for $385. Perhaps the shocks of this kit aren't long lasting, but I'm ok with replacing them sooner given the cost savings and uncertainty about the future of our universe.

 

[dieselshadow]

What’s going on to cause your leaves to break? Bad roads?

 

[verk]

What’s going on to cause your leaves to break? Bad roads?

No idea. Stock truck with 300 lbs. in the bed 99% of the time. I think leaf springs fatigue with enough time, but this is the first time it's happened to me.

 

[GrantP]

If you were happy with the stock leafs then why not get another set used? If you really want custom then call Deaver or National and order what you want, probably won't be any cheaper than Carli though.

As for the Rancho leveling kit, it wouldn't be my choice but it should be fine for someone who's on pavement 99% of the time. I installed one on my brother's Ford and he's happy with it three years later.

 

[AEdelheit]

I know how much full leaf packs cost to make and either spend the money and do it right or go back to stock, not trying to be rude but there is not as much mark up in leafs as you would think and making a pack with the stock weight capacity will pretty well result in the same ride as stock. You could do multiple thinner leafs and get close to stock capacity but by the time you engineer and build it there would not be any cost savings.

On the front spring rates and shock valving make or break the ride, again tying to go cheap will lead to cheap results. Im willing to bet you have not emailed the companies you think charge to much to see what the options are as you can do it for much less then 3k id you dont do a full leaf pack.

I understand the sticker shock of some parts but using phrases like "virtues of Thuren or Carli steel" makes me think you have no idea the amount of R&D and engineering that goes into those components.

 

[Ozymandias]

Stock is cheapest and in my opinion not bad.

 

[Timd32]

Some options on this site.

I always think a specialized shop is a good resource, used to have a local place put them together based on what you wanted.

https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7886

Most likely have to reset the truck options.

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

I have a set of stock rear springs that I removed years ago from my 04 that you're welcome to. They're in Minnesota, so getting them to you could be a challenge. PM me if you want to discuss.

 

[CVR222NV]

I would see if you have a local spring shop in your area. We have a local shop that I had upgrade my front coils and add two leafs to the rear which required they take apart the spring pack. I can't remember the exact cost but I thought it was reasonable and certainly nowhere near $3.5K. A good shop should be able to get you the ride you desire.

 

[verk]

Thanks for the many replies and good info within.

Leafs
I'm unable to source lower capacity leafs other than Carli and Thuren. According to Thuren, Thurens leafs ( $1350 w/ needed shackle ) are softer than Carli leafs( $1150 ). Stock replacements range from $500-$1000 with the upper being from Mopar. The majority of lower cost stuff is probably all non-US so in the end not that big a difference if you want local.
Coils
Pretty much the same thing here. 2-3" Thuren and Carli springs are about $350 & $440 respectively and alternatives aren't much less even the ones that I can tell are coming from outside the US.
The other stuff
At least half the cost of these kits is the other stuff which seems to add up fast: shocks ($$$), track bar, sway bars, end links, dampers, etc, etc. I think this where I can save the most, by finding less expensive.

So in the end softening the suspension is just a pricey job when you add together all the needed components. Should have done the basic analysis before commenting on sticker shock. Maybe I'm getting tired of shifting the old girl. So many years of trouble free service, it's hard not to think of making her better.

 

[verk]

Visited a local spring shop who can replace the broken leafs at a cost of $600. It was communicated that unloaded leafs are more likely to break. I'm paraphrasing, but something like "this is because rather than having leaf seating on cushions loaded it is instead relatively flat with smaller, more frequent, and localized loading at the center." Also said a break of one usual results in a break of another because of the abrupt end in support for the next to break leaf.

Also communicated with a couple suspension vendors. The interesting thing was having one person say that changing coils doesn't makes a big difference in softening the ride. This person said the leafs would represent most if not all the softening of the ride. Other person said changing coils would make a big difference in softening the ride.

 

[AEdelheit]

Visited a local spring shop who can replace the broken leafs at a cost of $600. It was communicated that unloaded leafs are more likely to break. I'm paraphrasing, but something like "this is because rather than having leaf seating on cushions loaded it is instead relatively flat with smaller, more frequent, and localized loading at the center." Also said a break of one usual results in a break of another because of the abrupt end in support for the next to break leaf.

Also communicated with a couple suspension vendors. The interesting thing was having one person say that changing coils doesn't makes a big difference in softening the ride. This person said the leafs would represent most if not all the softening of the ride. Other person said changing coils would make a big difference in softening the ride.

The right coils will make a big difference in ride in the front, the right leafs will make a big difference in the rear but as you have found it all comes at a cost.

Spending money on some good shocks will help alot too, even with stock leaf if they can control the rebound better.

 

[verk]

The right coils will make a big difference in ride in the front, the right leafs will make a big difference in the rear but as you have found it all comes at a cost.

Spending money on some good shocks will help alot too, even with stock leaf if they can control the rebound better.

Thanks for info. I would think so too, couldn't understand why other person said it wouldn't. Just spoke with Carli about their offerings. Valving for their "Full Progressive Leaf Spring Pack, 2" Lift, Diesel leafs " necessitates going to their "Backcountry" kit with remote reservoirs and associated $ bump ( $3500 ) which seems stupid for on-road only use. So either Thuren kit ( $2550 ) or OEM leafs ( $1000 ) without suspension upgrade.

 

[Wayne M.]

I will be overhauling mine end to end (hopefully) soon. I’m probably going to pick and choose a la carte items, like Fox shocks, some sort of good front spring that won’t add (hopefully any) height, and I’ll probably leave the leafs alone. I’m more worried about cab mounts and arm bushings.
I am surprised that you broke a spring. I would just let a spring shop repair what broke and keep on truckin.

 

[verk]

So replacement leafs

I will be overhauling mine end to end (hopefully) soon. I’m probably going to pick and choose a la carte items, like Fox shocks, some sort of good front spring that won’t add (hopefully any) height, and I’ll probably leave the leafs alone. I’m more worried about cab mounts and arm bushings.
I am surprised that you broke a spring. I would just let a spring shop repair what broke and keep on truckin.

Hi Wayne M. Local spring shop not that surprised. Said trucks without load more likely and all it takes is a slight deviation in tempering to shorten life span significantly. Keep in mind that a shock should be valved for a certain spring rate. Because I wan't softer leaf springs I need rear shocks valved for that spring rate. Carli and Thuren who make softer leafs don't valve their Fox shocks for their softer leaves and so you end up having to play upgrade game. So the Carli "Commuter" kit isn't designed for Carli 2" leafs ( replacement leaf, not the add-on ) and the Thuren 3" Soft-Ride kit doesn't have rear Fox shock option that's actually valved for the Thuren long-travel leafs. Carli suggests upgrading to Fox with remotes and Thuren suggests King. Either way seems unnecessary for my needs. I wonder how many people are running shocks not valved for particular springs as I didn't realize this until about 4 hours into the education process.

 

[Ozymandias]

To my knowledge Thuren sets the valving in each shock according to the customers wishes. That's entirely new to me that they sell High end Shocks with a plain stock valving.

 

[Ozymandias]

But in your case, go to a scrap yard and get a used spring for a couple dollars.
Even eBay is a great source for take out leads.

 

[verk]

To my knowledge Thuren sets the valving in each shock according to the customers wishes. That's entirely new to me that they sell High end Shocks with a plain stock valving.

According to Thuren all Fox shocks "have the same tune" which I guess is another way of saying valving.

 

[AEdelheit]

\ some sort of good front spring that won’t add (hopefully any) height

If you go to softer springs you need a little more height or it would be hitting the bump stops every other bump thats why most are atleast a 2" lift, to give the sock more time to dampen compression before hitting the bump stop.

Hi Wayne M. Local spring shop not that surprised. Said trucks without load more likely and all it takes is a slight deviation in tempering to shorten life span significantly. Keep in mind that a shock should be valved for a certain spring rate. Because I wan't softer leaf springs I need rear shocks valved for that spring rate. Carli and Thuren who make softer leafs don't valve their Fox shocks for their softer leaves and so you end up having to play upgrade game. So the Carli "Commuter" kit isn't designed for Carli 2" leafs ( replacement leaf, not the add-on ) and the Thuren 3" Soft-Ride kit doesn't have rear Fox shock option that's actually valved for the Thuren long-travel leafs. Carli suggests upgrading to Fox with remotes and Thuren suggests King. Either way seems unnecessary for my needs. I wonder how many people are running shocks not valved for particular springs as I didn't realize this until about 4 hours into the education process.

Well thats a bit misleading, think of it more as a Broad rang tune that works with either the full aftermarket leafs or the softer leafs, which are not so soft that they need a completely different tune to work. Now the custom tuned Kings will ride better but the non- user specific valving will still work great for all around use, just not as dialed in for your specific use. The Fox shocks have a lot of rebound and would work well for your use.

According to Thuren all Fox shocks "have the same tune" which I guess is another way of saying valving.

Correct but not quite that black and white. A 2.0" diameter shock has pretty small piston surface are and will overheat quickly if too much valving is used so there is a very good all around tune in them and to do anything more requires a bigger shock to function properly which is why all the custom tunes are a 2.5" shocks. Also the Aluminum body Fox 2.0" shocks are not designed to come apart and be rebuilt so it would be very hard to have different valving options with them.

I would do some good front coils and Fox IFP shocks , that will get you a better ride without breaking the bank then upgrade from there. If you track bar has any play in it at all or high miles then it should be replaced before its an issue, dont know if you have ever experienced death wobble but its best to avoid all together.

 

[ranger 393]

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