2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission T-steering finally done

[DIESELWRKS]

okay finally got the alignment done. here is the 98-99 HD steering on my 02 with dt pro-fab trac bar. these were all the parts from napa. this is with the 02 upper link.

Long Tie Rod #DS1456

Drag Link #DS1459

Left Out Tie Rod # ES3496

Tie Rod @Pitman Arm #ES3527

Small Adj. Sleeve #ES2012S

Large Adj. Sleeve #ES3498S

 

[LTsmoke]

suppose this will work to replace the front end on my 98. 5 3500?

 

[SRath]

You can sure tell that truck hasn't seen much gravel road or salted snow and ice!

That looks real nice. My Dodge is sitting in the shop right now with the same new Moog components loosely bolted on as I await my new balljoints, u-joints, shocks, etc. Meantime, I am amusing myself with replacing the radius control arms with adjustable ones. I never knew how entertaining a couple bolts could be...

I have a 3rd gen adjustable trackbar and DSS, too.

Only about $3000 of upgrades to go before the Dodge frontend is on par with my Chevy.

 

[ESorensen]

What is the cost of the conversion that you have done? What is the benefit? How does it drive? How does it drive differently? What has it "made better" than the factory setup?

I only ask because I will be doing something like this in the future. It looks great!

 

[DIESELWRKS]

the truck body and underneath have over 300k miles on them this engine has 160k on it. when I picked the truck up getting out of the marines out in Missouri the truck was a rust bucket. its amazing what alittle work and paint and liner can do. the parts were about 410. 00 spicer stuff and the trac bar I got for 400. 00 this set up of steering parts keeps a (more) constant toe during suspension travel this there are many others that have done this setup which I stole and jump to do my steering is now very tight and responsive less play on the wheel.





2002 HO 6-SPD LB 4X4 QC HTT 62/14 SB-FE TST PM3/*REVO-BETA*SMARTY MACH 4'S, RINGED AND STUDS, AFE/2 " FTE 6" STACK D/PRICOL GAUGES, FASS 150, VULCAN 1/2 DRAW-STRAW, 3/8 FUEL LINE, DSS-BOX DT PRO-FAB TRAC BAR, CONV-T STYLE STEERING,DUNKS TRACTION BARS, AIR BAGS,17'' KMC BLACK HOSS, 315/70/17 MICKTHOM MTZ'S 6" RCD LONG ARM LIFT. :-laf... THANKS RIP Source Automotive Performance Diesel - Offline

 

[Dave M]

"DIESELWRKS" that looks cool and great pics of the T seup. I'm considering T setup or crossover steering from Bullet Proof Steering but it's about $500 for parts.



Welcome to the Genuine Bullet Proof Steering System Solution!



Genuine Bullet Proof Steering Systems DODGE Pricing & Options



Still undecided HD 98-99 T seup vs crossover steering (Bullet Proof Steering, Thuren, DTProFab. . etc)



Did you have any rim rubbing on the tie rods?



Do you have stock rims?



I'm concerned those larger tie rods will rub on my 97 3500 dually with stock dually rims.



Dave

 

[DIESELWRKS]

I dont have oem rims and no I dont have rub issues. also most of what I heard due to the crossover styles like this it is bigger and I would think with stock this would rub for sure. mine cost just over 400 to do and this is lifetime warranty. later I will do a measuremen from knuckle to wheel on what I have and post that

 

[Dave M]

I dont have oem rims and no I dont have rub issues. also most of what I heard due to the crossover styles like this it is bigger and I would think with stock this would rub for sure. mine cost just over 400 to do and this is lifetime warranty. later I will do a measuremen from knuckle to wheel on what I have and post that

I believe you are correct on the cross-over style rubbing the rims due to the even larger tie rods. It good to see your stock rims don't rub. I don't know if my dually rims would be shaped different and rub or not. Did you do the T conversion yourself or did you have a shop do it?



I'd really like to do the T setup too.



Edit:I noticed you still have your sway bar on. I thought that needed removed. I also have a DSS (As you do) and hope it will not need removed. Thinking more on the Bullet Proof tie rods it could be they will not rub since the heim type joint on the end of the tie rod may be smaller than the OEM T type tie rod end. What it looks like is the Bullet Proof bars are larger than the T bars but the ends of the Bullet Proof bars (the heim joint) may not be larger than T type. One advantage of the Bullet proof bars is they look like they can be rebuilt but the T type cannot.



Thanks,

Dave

 

[DIESELWRKS]

correction I said I do not have oem rims they are aftermarket. different back spacing. I will measure how much it goes past the knuckle.

 

[Dave M]

correction I said I do not have oem rims they are aftermarket. different back spacing. I will measure how much it goes past the knuckle.

Oops... wishfull thinking on my part I guess. Thanks for pointing that out.



Dave

 

[SRath]

The drawback I see is once you drill out your knuckles and pitman, there's no going back or substituting off-the-shelf parts if you had to.

 

[Dave M]

The drawback I see is once you drill out your knuckles and pitman, there's no going back or substituting off-the-shelf parts if you had to.

That's very true but you can rebuild each rod end instead of replacing the whole bar. Yes, there is no going back to stock and they rely on you taking YOUR measurements and build it to your specs so it better be correct or you wasted a part. I do like the direct wheel to wheel tie rod connection and the beefy bars and the type of heim joint that replaces the crappy ball stud joint.



This is a tough decision for me to make. There are good/bad to both systems. The Bullet Proof design cost about $100-150 more than the T setup and you are stuck with one place for these front end parts but it appears the quality is superior to OEM T setup.



I'm procrastinationg on T vs Cross over... . geeez.



Dave

 

[DIESELWRKS]

another thought if you have to drill out your knuckles yourself how are you going to do this. if you take everything apart a machine shop will give you the best and cleanest bore. but I'm just thinking that doing this yourself you may end up with something else. if so over time what ever bolt is used this would end up moving and stretching the bore. this may not be true I dont know just something to think about. I know I read some threads on thurens crossover set up he makes and people had this issue when they did it them selves. there is a member I believe LanceD or Dlance that did his own I thought I cant find the thread and it may even be on dtr. may want to try and find him and talk to him.

 

[therabbittree]

mummn... Thanks for the napa part #s i just order all 4 tierods on my dads 2002... and they are siiting here unused. i think we may check my part #s and get the ones you ordered instead...

Thanks

deo

 

[DIESELWRKS]

those numbers were moog numbers and napa cross them to napa line which I was told were dana/spicer parts. either way with napa they are lifetime. goodluck

 

[therabbittree]

cool I just returned my 2002 stuff except the pitman arm one etc. . did you use a steering damper shock from a '99?. . thats what I ordered. . hopefully that will work. I have to ask about the lifetime guarantee... they didn't mention it. . and it was a chunk of change one of them was $205. . alone... ha after a discount... doing a borgeson shaft, the upgraded rock solid ram steering shaft bushing, source auto's dss, and tracbar too. . hopefully no steering issues after all these parts...

Thanks,

Deo

 

[DIESELWRKS]

Havent decided on the dampner yet and how to. a couple of ideas would be the end of the dampner that uses the u-bolts and clamps to the rod. I just dont know about the angle from our factory pass side yet if you look the dampner would be in a slight angle to the rod. I may look at getting a tab welding that on to extend out in-line with the rod and then this way the dampner would be parallel with the rod. if this makes sense.

 

[ESorensen]

So what can be used with stock rims/backspacing?

 

[SRath]

I don't like the design of the damper on my '96 at all, and now that I have the HD T-style steering linkage, it will not work without a u-bolted bracket on the tierod or drag link. No big loss at all. Good riddance to a bad design, in fact.

With one end mounted to the truck frame, the stabilizer has to do too much up and down pivoting, and it not only is "exercised" by lateral forces (steering input and sideways bumps and ruts), it is OVER-exercised by every little vertical motion of the suspension, too.

The design of the damper on my K30 Chevy Dana 60 is much better. It is also how CumminsPower98 did it:

With the T-style steering linkage, the axle housing and the tierod remain fixed in one plane relative to each other since the tierod goes directly from one knuckle to the other. That's what makes T-style steering a superior design. All they have relative to each other is side-to-side movement as the wheels are steered or side-bumped. NO up and down motion at all relative to each other.

So fasten one end of the damper to the axle housing, and the other to the tierod. It will be much more effective and last longer. The only motion will be the in-and-out of the damper rod as the steering wheel is turned (a very slight pivot is necessary as the wheels are turned lock-to-lock, but nothing like a frame mount design, and even that tiny motion remains in the one geometrical plane). It dampens any jolts to your steering wheel better by directly resisting sudden wheel direction changes. Nothing else affects it and it does not interfere with anything else.

That up and down motion of the suspension with the factory design actually allows the steering damper to INPUT to your steering wheel and increases your steering wheel counter-input in turn. The harder you hit a dip or vertical bump, the harder the damper damps, just like the shock absorber it is. It is only supposed to damp lateral, or side-to-side movement. And even though you are trying to steer straight, it will want to drive your steering wheel one way or the other a little bit. That constant 'little bit" quickly adds up to counter-steering fatigue for the driver, which utterly defeats the purpose of the damper...

I plow snow and go offroad once in awhile, so I plan on using a dual stabilizer setup mounted the old Chevy way.

I will take the liberty of linking you to Mark's webpage so you can see how best to do it:
Ram Modifications

 

[DIESELWRKS]

thanks I saw this earlier, I'm intrested in a double set up. have you done your double yet. or just planning when you do let me know I would like to see how you did it