2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission t-steering vs inverted y?

[SDrake]

My truck is ready for new tierods. Being aware of the t-steering on some trucks I have done a lot of reading to determine if this is my opportunity to improve my steering. One of the plusses of t-steering is that toe in does not change with loading as we go from running empty to being hitched to heavy trailer with weight distribution hitch forcing front end to carry a larger portion of the weight on the hitch. There are other plusses but I am still puzzled.



Why does Dodge stick with the inverted y. They used the t-steering for a couple of years, 99 included but then they dropped it as far as i know.



Is there something about t-steering that does not jive well with all around good manners on the road that when all is said and done, road trucks are better off with the inverted y.



The cost is about the same,--- same number of joints and pieces. Is the t-steering more sensitive to conditions that contribute to death wobble?



What is Dodges reason for staying with inverted y? I'm thinking that somewhere in the range of things that they experience from putting t-steering there is a real headache or liability issue for the company. What would that be?



My usage is strictly highway, and I just want tight steering and even tire wear. Toe in control is important to good tire wear.



Just looking for your thoughts?

 

[Pavemen]

the issue with t steering is that the draglink is connected to the front of the tie rod and when you steer the draglink rolls the tierod before actually moving it and you get a bit of slop.

however, the t steering is stronger and easier on the steering box as any side load on a tire is not pushing directly on the pitman are like an inverted y does. instead it transfers most of the load to the other knuckle.

not sure why dodge stuck with the inverted y. most folks are happy with the 99 HD upgrade.

 

[CumminsPower98]

I continue to question this. I'm happy with my upgrade and have not noticed any down sides on or off road.

 

[SDrake]

Do you think the slop is what Dodge couldn't affort to take a rap for? Som people would equate slop with something not right. I have found that if you have steering with good caster, toe in, tight balljoints etc that a little steering slop is not much of a bother. My truck has a very slight pull to the right and somehow that takes care of the slop. The pull is not enough to creep into you consciousness on long trips.



I am pretty sure I am going to give it a shot. CumminsPower98 thanks for the documentation and pictures.

 

[SDrake]

I just noticed that Dodge has a steering upgrade for 08. I saw pictures and it is a t-steering configuration with the draglink connection on top of the main link instead or running horizontally through it. I wonder of that addresses the twisting issue on the 99 style t-steering. FWIT

 

[SRath]

Dodge engineers are utterly clueless about steering. Ten bucks says not one of those gomers even drives what he designs.

 

[SDrake]

08 factory upgrade to t-steering PN's

I just ran across the part numbers for the 08 steering upgrade kit for the 08 on Petersons offroad site. I have no knowledge how it differs with 94 fitment but placed the info here incase it helps somoeone more knowledgable toward a solution to fitting the 94s and up. I imagine the pitman arm/and or link will have to be different.



DODGE FACTORY PARTS

PITMAN ARM PN 68039930AA

T-LINKAGE PN 52122370AB

FASTNERS one of PN 6502697

two of PN 6505623AA

 

[DIESELWRKS]

I have said this in many threads but again I'm happy with the T-steering conversion have the steering stabilizer in a box looking at me need to to that as well. but this is the thread that I did. and thanks again to those that helped me at the time. cumminspower98 you were helpful with the pic's. dont know I have a friend that has a 3rd gen upgrade steering set up coming to him. from sourceautomotive. biz. when he gets it I will measure if I get a chance.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...scussions/216022-t-steering-finally-done.html

 

[SDrake]

I just ran across the part numbers for the 08 steering upgrade kit for the 08 on Petersons offroad site. I have no knowledge how it differs with 94 fitment but placed the info here incase it helps some one more knowledgable toward a solution to fitting the 94s and up. I imagine the pitman arm/and or link will have to be different.



DODGE FACTORY PARTS

PITMAN ARM PN 68039930AA

T-LINKAGE PN 52122370AB

FASTNERS one of PN 6502697

two of PN 6505623AA

The T-LINKAGE PN 68039930AA evidently consists of

52106909AE DAMPER STEER 1 W

5086146AC TIE ROD TIE R 1 W

5086144AC Tie ROD TIE R 1 W



I will need to read TSB 22-005-00 to get a handle on this. I read where on fella couldn't get the 08 parts because of a dealer screwup and so he installed 99 upgrade parts instead. Now that I have dug this far with your pioneering help I am curious to know the differences if in fact you can bolt either parts on the same truck maybe the difference is something useful to know.

 

[DIESELWRKS]

I will try and contact rip at sourceauto if they have came across the chance of doing this. my friends kit should be coming some time this week. He is stubborn and probley wont let me look at his stuff untill he gets it put on. he's like all of us as soon as you get a toy you gotta put it on. this is the link and it shows the stock diff on the 3rd gen. wont really know unless someone out there has a 2nd and a 3rd gen that could do some measuring.



2003-2009 Dodge Upgraded Steering Linkage: Source Automotive Performance Diesel

 

[SDrake]

I was thinking of calling them but I don't know anyone there. Not my neck of the woods. Hope you learn something. From my reading the cross bar is massive, I forget the diameter but what caught my eye is that he said it adds 50 lbs to the front of the truck. I find that hard to understand. perhaps he meant it weighs 50 lbs from which you would subtract the weight of the one being taken off. But the point is it is a lot stiffer than anything Dodge has built before. I never heard anyone mention that there was a problem with the cross link flexing but that would be the only reason to make one so much larger in thickness dia I would think.

 

[SDrake]

99 heavy duty steering -- t-steering fits 94 oerfectly

I have installed the 99 Dodge 2500 4x4 heavy duty steering upgrade on my 94 pre 2/7/94 and it bolted up perfectly. I have hit some pretty good dips and no sign of bump steer. My truck is stock height. In my research I discovered that the parts are the same for all 94 though 99 (didn't check later models) so you do not need to remember any parts numbers. Just tell your parts guy you want the 99 heavy duty tie rod ends-- four parts. The track bar is different on pre 2/7/94 vehicles. Luke's Link takes care of the trackbar.



But for your refernece here are the parts I used --- all Moog greasable.

You cannot mix and match. If you go to the cross link that goes straight from one knuckle to the other then you have to change out the other 3 rod ends as well. TI believe these are the same parts DIESELWRKS, Mark74 and Cummins98 gave. I put them here for the convenience of any 94 guys who might not know that these parts also fit our trucks

ES3496 Drivers side Knuckle

DS1459 Pitman joint

ES3497 drag link

DS1456 THE LONG CROSSLINK attaches to passenger knuckle

ES3498S Heavy duty adjusting sleeve

I reused the adjusting sleeve (PN ES2080S) that connects the pitman joint to the drak link but if I was doing it again I would just by a new one of these as well. Mine was rusted and was a bear to free up and clean up for reuse. The 21 bucks for a new one would have been worth it. I purchased my parts at Autozone and they matched RockAuto prices. Total was just under $400. They have free rental on tools for the job, rock auto does not.



The cross link (joint attaches to the passenger knuckle) and the drivers side tie rod end on the drivers knuckle are 1 1/8 in diameter theraeaded into the adjusting sleeve. The other adjusting sleeve is 1" dia same as stock.



Now I need to come up with a steering damper application for this truck. I will post what I do when it is done.



no more toe in variation with load.

 

[rivercat]

check out this steering Thuren Fabrication- Crossover steering kits

 

[DIESELWRKS]

check out this steering Thuren Fabrication- Crossover steering kits

there has been alot of discussion on this set up in past. there are good and bad to some people. once you do it you cant go back. you have to drill out your knuckles to 3/4 If I remember. price isn't bad for what you get. I think the drilling may scare some people. but yes it does look good

 

[BHaden]

Anyone who has done the Thuren, or other heim joint style conversion, does the back and forth load on the bolts cause any wear or "hogging-out" of the hole in the steering arm where the hole was drilled to 3/4"? As the steering goes from right to left there is a

rocking motion from top to bottom that it seems would try to elongate the hole. The stock tapered stud with a nut holding it tight underneath resists this. Maybe the sheer size of the bolts handles the stress? I like the direct nature of the heim style conversion, but staring at the pics made me wonder if there were unintended consequenses.



Anyone figured out if the '08 setup fits a 94-98?

 

[rivercat]

I would think bolts that were snug in the right sized hole and well torqued would not allow the type of movement you speak of. Sorta the same as suggesting that the holes would wallow out on your wheels if the nuts werent tapered, The taper only centers the wheel on the hub and lots of mag style wheels use a flat nut with a washer without problems. Don is no idiot he talked me out of buying his control arms, said they were overkill if I wasnt going offroad much. He gave me the dimensions and pointed me to where to buy bushings/tubing if I could build my own, He even pointed me to a spring supplier saying his springs would work but I wouldn't be happy with them. He seems very genuine in his mission to produce quality upgrades and im sure that the steering is problem free and much better than what your running now.

 

[MartinT]

I did the t conversion on my 01. I used the part numbers and got the stuff from napa. The steering is much tighter. Overall I am very happy with the change. As far as longevity, it has only been 2k miles, so i can not say.

One problem I did have, was the passenger side rim rubbed the tie rod at full lock. A new set of rims cured that. Too much backspacing on the factory alloy rim.

 

[DIESELWRKS]

since I did my conversion to the T-steering its been 5k miles with 37's and no problems it sure is nice to look at it and see the size diff from the oem 2002 system. I need to buy some new grease soon. havent really paid much attention to the stuff I was using so since I want to use a good grease what are some of the better greases out there to use on the joints etc. I dont have a amsoil dealer near have heard good on it. also what about royal purple do they make a good grease that would be ideal for our trucks



2002 HO 6-SPD LB 4X4 QC HTT 62/14 SB-DD3600 TST PM3/*REVO-BETA*SMARTY MACH 4'S, RINGED AND STUDS, AFE/2 " FTE 6" STACK D/PRICOL GAUGES, FASS 150, VULCAN 1/2 DRAW-STRAW, 3/8 FUEL LINE, DSS-BOX DT PRO-FAB TRAC BAR, CONV-T STYLE STEERING,DUNKS TRACTION BARS, AIR BAGS,17'' KMC BLACK HOSS, 37" TOYO MT'S 6" RCD LONG ARM LIFT. :-laf... THANKS RIP DiPricol Gauges

 

[BHaden]

Thanks for the input guys. The conversion looks stout enough, but I tend to think worst case when dealing with non factory stuff like steering parts. It looks like it would work great assuming accurate hole drilling and real tight bolts. Nice COOL factor too.

 

[rivercat]

im using this on every thing Its more expensive than mobil 1 or redline or amsoil or lucas or any other full synthetic. So far so good not that I have anything that is super Grease dependant.



Green Grease... . The Best Grease Money Can Buy!... . Just ask anyone who has used it!.....