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TAG- Dyno Results and Bench Flow Testing

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As many of you know, I have been involved in doing some Dyno tests for the Preporator fuel system, as is another of my local members. Well, today we "Base" Dyno'd the trucks at the AFE Facility here in Corona. Once again, I must say that they are running a first class operation over there- but that's another thread;) .



I received my TAG from the group purchase about 2 weeks ago, but had not put it on because I knew that this Dyno test day was approaching, and wanted to do some testing with it. So we did.



We base lined the truck, which is as follows:

2001 HO, 275RV injectors, Edge EZ, stock turbo/14cm upgraded housing, AFE Stage 1 filter, ATS Manifold, Banks High Ram, Jardine 4" exhaust.



The baseline numbers peaked (as can be seen below) at approx 290Hp and 720Ft-lbs. These numbers were consistent with several runs.



The TAG was then installed, and two more runs on the Dyno were done, the results of which are overlaid to the original Base numbers.



I also sat in the jump seat with the Dyno Operator, to watch boost numbers as well as EGT's. Keep in mind that this is a Mustang water-jet dyno, with an 18,000lb load simulation. All tests were performed in 5th gear direct.



With the TAG in place, HP and Torque both came on slightly faster. The greatest differential was noted at 1670RPM, where the TAG yielded an increase of 5hp and 12 Ft-lbs. The peak Torque numbers with the TAG came in very slightly higher, about 5 Ft-Lbs, and peak HP was actually less (on both runs) by about 3Hp.



Interestingly, the EGT's dropped by about 50*, from 1300* at baseline, to 1250* with the TAG, and differences in Boost were too small to measure, both of which peaked at 32psi. On the road, I've seen both EGT and boost higher.



Since I've only driven the truck a bit since the TAG was installed, its hard to say there is any significantly noticeable difference, other than I "want" to believe and feel the "extra" Power. It does seem to have a tad, more go off the line. I have not noticed a difference in turbo noise, maybe a slight decrease, I know others have seen much more.



The TAG was also removed and Bench flow tested, on AFE's state of the art bench. The results, were that the TAG resulted in a 40CFM decrease, but it lessened the resistance of vaccume (water) by approx . 3 of an inch.



All in all, it is what it is, and while it did not increase overall horsepower, it does change the HP/Torque curve. Inquiring minds had to know:p ... ... .



Kev
 
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Thanks Kevin!



As far as I know this is the first definitive test of TAG, and I'm certain that you had it done without bias.



I don't suppose that anyone noticed any reduction of smoke resulting from use of the TAG device? It would be hard to tell during a dyno test, I know, but my primary interest in the thing comes from the claimed reduction of emmission numbers.
 
KRS_ I bought the TAG simply to play with and check out. You're right, Im not aware of any other Dyno tests that have been done. I actually wanted to get it just to take it down to AFE to see how it flows and test it on the Dyno. I have no strong opinion one way or another, and I PAID for this, so it was no freebee;) (not that it makes a difference in my opinion or report). I'll leave it on the truck for now, but it will be removed for the next Dyno test with the Preporator.



As for the smoke? I have not seen any noticeable reduction, and its too early for mileage reports. I did notice this morning that the Turbo noise does seem a bit tamer, something I wasn't sure of yesterday.



Kev
 
Kev,



I bought a TAG too. I am on my fourth tank of fuel, so the results on mileage are preliminary. If there is any gain in mileage it is slight. Maybe less than 1 mile per gallon gain. I have used it on a long high speed trip, truck only, and now am using it on my daily runs to jobs. I too noticed a slight seat of the pants gain or smoothness, but nothing like an EZ. The gain maybe just being hopeful. I believe there is a reduction in EGT, about what you saw, but no noticeable gain in boost. I will continue to watch it. I am running the TAG without any timing or fueling modifications, dead stock 2001 HO, only a AFE drop in. It did quite the turbo noise down, wife's comment.



Cary:cool:
 
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TAG results

I just found your thread after being directed to it. Great information and thank you for sharing it. Looks like your results are pretty typical, lower EGTs, quicker spool up etc. Also the flow bench test is interesting that it lowered the resistance to vacuum. It would be interesting to repeat the flow bench test using an actual turbo and measure the loading on the turbo as well as air flow and temperature.



For testing of our TAG-II I have installed a temp probe in the outlet of the turbo and before the intercooler to see if the TAG-II effects temperature and thus effects air density. We have seen a noticeable reduction of air temperature being delivered from the turbo which equates to a more dense air charge to the engine. This also helps to explain the cooler EGTs and faster cool down times as well as lowered boost pressure under steady conditions.



Thought you might find this interesting.
 
Car_nut, or anyone else out there. Has anyone come up with a way to make the TAG work with the aFe torque tube on a 3rd gen truck? Mark:confused:
 
IF the TAG units reduce turbo whistle - presumably on unmodified turbos that still have the cone intact, wonder what the net sound effect would be with the cone removed and the TAG installed?
 
Gary - KJ6Q,



Are you talking about the silencer ring? I am running mine without the ring and it does quite the turbo down some. My turbo is stock for an HO.



Cary:cool:
 
Originally posted by MMeier

Car_nut, or anyone else out there. Has anyone come up with a way to make the TAG work with the aFe torque tube on a 3rd gen truck? Mark:confused:
We have fit a TAG with a Torque Tube on Jeff's 2004 here in the shop and a couple of guys have done it using a Ford 6. 0L TAG, but I do not like the install as it is not as psoitive as our TAG used with the stock boot on the turbo. As a side note, we did have one customer in California use a TAG with a Torque Tube to resolve what he called turbo cavitation and he told us the TAG was very effective resolving his issues. So the answer is, you can install a TAG with a Torque Tube, but keep in mind the install is not as cool as our normal install.
 
TAG report

My mileage towing a 10k lb travel trailer averaged out at just over 12mpg (like 12. 4 mpg). This was checked on a trip from Idaho to Wisconsin to Texas... down to Mexico and back to Texas.

Best mileage was Idaho to Wisconsin with a nice tail wind... . got almost 14mpg. The worst, of course, were head winds where mileage went down to under 11mpg (10. 8).

After getting back to Texas I installed a TAG and AFE air filter (mega cannon) and drove 1800 miles back to Idaho. The mileage was 12. 15mpg. It was head winds all the way and pretty stiff at that. In the three day trip to Idaho I never got a break on the winds.

It looks as though this combo of TAG/AFE picked up about 1mpg overall. It would have been nice to have one day with at least no winds to see what it would do but it just didn't happen.

The noise factor is up a little with the AFE and my SOP meter registers nothing with this combo... but I'll take the small mileage increase.

I'm about ready to make a trip to Seattle with an empty truck. I really doubt that the mileage will increase much. It seems to be when your pouring the fuel to it that increased air flow helps out.



Mike
 
I just received and installed the TAG last Friday (3-26). My truck is still completely stock under the hood. The first thing I did was pull a 3000lb cargo trailer (nothing for our trucks I know). I seemed to notice quicker turbo spooling and take offs, and also quicker and more aggressive acceleration in every gear with no increase on the right foot. However, it seemed like my mileage during acceleration was down, at least according to the overhead console. Before the TAG I would get no less than 7mpg on take offs with my foot on the floor. Now I see it go down to 4 and 5. Highway and pulling mileage seems to be about the same or a shade better. Outside of the quicker and smoother acceleration, I'm not sure if it's doing me any good or not. I hate to lose mileage, especially with fuel prices increasing. I'll keep it for a little while to see how I like it and to see how the mileage does over a few tanks.
 
mavrick1 I wouldn't put too much on the overhead console especially for quick acceleration bursts.



Best comparison to make is going on road trips with the same load, weight, speed and driving in fairly closely similar weather before and after installing the TAG.



Vaughn
 
Is there any new developements with the TAG I, II, or III? Just wondering what the status of these were and if there were any new test results with either with emissions or dyno stats. Thanks
 
TAG I, II, and III

Git R Done,



I have tested all three versions and I'm currently running the TAG I.



Dave has the most current info on his web site regarding all 3 plus he's posted install instructions:

http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/tag



I tried the TAGII and liked it, seemed to help at Hwy speed the most, had to keep backing my foot out from where it was used to being going down the hwy, I found myself speeding several times.



I tried the TAGIII over a weekend and towing my 5th wheel. It seemed to enhance bottom end torque up to 2000RPM, after that I didn't feel a benefit. I believe the TAGIII is aimed at the 3rd Gen market and may make a bigger difference on those trucks.



Sorry no dyno or emissions data, just some seat of the pants experience from another 02 ETH DEE.



The TAG I helps me with around town throttle response and while towing on the hwy. Didn't get enough time with the TAG II to know any more than I have already shared. Didn't get to tow with it, still intrigued by how it acted on the hwy.



Hope this helps,



Dan
 
GIT-R-DONE said:
Is there any new developements with the TAG I, II, or III? Just wondering what the status of these were and if there were any new test results with either with emissions or dyno stats. Thanks
We are working on getting information gathered on the TAG-III which is really intended for the 3rd Gen trucks, but can also be used on the second gen trucks. It can also be used in most of the after market turbos and smooth bore intakes without any machine work to the turbo. The only dyno run so far has been on a 1999 truck with aftermnarket turbo and injectors being tested for an article in Off-Road magazine. I do not have the print outs yet, but have been told the hp and torque gains are small, but the performance of the turbo spool up etc. is noticeably better.



One very interesting thing that I have not had a chance to get up on the website yet is the TAG-III is intalled in a stock 2003, 6-speed truck with only an aFe drop in air filter and Banks muffler for modifications. With the standard TAG installed the performance, boost pressure reduction cruising etc. were typical. The interesting thing we noticed on this truck was with the installation of the TAG-III under deceleration the turbo makes 3-4psi boost. We took the TAG-III out and test ran it again stock and with a single TAG under deceleration and the boost was 0psi. Reinstalled the TAG-III and 3-4psi boost while decelerating.



More information about the TAG and TAG-II will be in the next issue of the TDR with a write up by John Holmes.
 
MMeier said:
Car_nut, or anyone else out there. Has anyone come up with a way to make the TAG work with the aFe torque tube on a 3rd gen truck? Mark:confused:
Mark, The TAG-III is a direct install in the aFe Torque Tube. Feel free to give us a call for more information about this install.
 
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