takes to long to Starts

[navyramman]

I have a problem of long hard starts on my truck. Looking at all of the threads and giving DODGE $154. 00 for them to tell me they say it is bad fuel and 4 others in my home use the SAME fuel and none of them have any troubles. The trouble with my Dodge is bad injectors. I am going to replace my Injectors and see if that fixes my troubles. I need a place in ST. louis mo that does this. I Have Very good fuel PSI. Dodge has told me that and I have checked too. I have cut power to the truck for hours on end and let it reset it self, Unpluged and put back in every plug under the hood and nothing. Dodge will not replace he injectors, THey want $1300 to clean out the fuel system. AND I know that is not it. I have replaced the fuel filter 3 times this week and nothing, Just incase. Took fuel samples and it is great fuel. No water, or dirt. Once I get it to start, It idles VERY smooth and I can take off and it runs very good down the road( over 100 mph) I have ran every type of fuel cleaner in the truck. Or I can just trade it in on a new one. ??

Any other inputs??

 

[Simplysmn]

go buy a new 08 I think they are a sweet truck so far so good

 

[navyramman]

My truck only has 63,000 miles on it for info.

For $154 I got this:

Customer states that the vehicle has a long crank time. found a related bulletin for an extended crank. Flashed the PCM to update for the long crank.

Engine seems to be slow to start. checked the fuel and found it to be contaminated. the fuel filter needs to be replaced (BS) and the tank drained and cleaned for $1,300. HE told me it was Bio Fuel. How could it just be my truck? 5 of us get our fuel from the same place in Columbia, IL (We have an account there) AND I am the only one that has this trouble. THis is my 3rd tank and I have run them almost MT and have changed fuel filters right after I fill up.



Yes In IL there are no laws that gas stations have to tell you that they are giving you B-11 (thats 11% bio diesel) In IL gas stations don't have to pay state tax of 6. 25% to the gov for fuel if they sell B-11, So they save around . 14 per gal and don't tell anyone what is comming out of the pump and everyone stills pay's the full price.

HOW do I know, I Drive an 18 wheeler for a CO. and I haul Gas, Diesel. I have talked to the guy that brings the fuel to that gas station. It is B-11 there and at some other gas staions around St. louis on the IL side.

MO has a law that makes the stations tell you what you are getting.



Say I get this done?? AND it does not fix the troubles on the starting? THen I am out $1,454 and my truck still won't start up easy. I could have changed the Injectors and saved my self the $$ OR just trade it in and be done with it. WHat do you think of them new fords?

 

[tp0d]

I`ve had the same thing happen on my 05. Doesnt crank long all the time, but at least 40% of the time. Longest crank Ive seen is about 8-9 seconds before it fires up (right before I was going to let off the key for fear of damaging the starter)

I`ve tried setting the key to the 'run' position for 5-6 seconds before starting, kind of like when you're waiting for the grid heaters to heat. This builds pressure to the CP3 and it sometimes seems to help. I`d say my worst cranks have been on hot restarts. Never been to the dealer specifically for the problem, cept a month ago when my transmission's VB bit the dust.

I`ve wondered if its a problem with timing, and the computer cant figure out when to inject. My 12v will start on 1-2 revs every time with a little pedal, if I dont give it any, it will start like my 05. If I give my 05 a little pedal, it will race way higher than my 12v, not sure why. . hmmmm

good luck

-j

 

[BHolm]

B11 shouldn't cause ANY problems for your truck. I think the dealer is full of BS too. If you had contaminated fuel like they cliam, how come it runs perfectly after you get it started? If the fuel was truely bad, wouldn't it run crappy all of the time?



There is no way I would pay them to go through the fuel system. I think the best thing to do with injectors is have the nozzles replaced. The places that do these extrude honed nozzles provide pics of what the stock ones look like and what the modded ones look like. It is a night and day difference and that is with NEW ones, not ones with 60+ thousand miles on them.



Long crank times can be injector related. My 80k mile '06 cranks a little too long and the milage isn't quite waht I expect, plus my EGT's are a little high for what I am running. Nozzles for my truck run about $700 and I will be doing them as soon as I have the $$.



Good luck with the truck, and find yourself a dealer with a brain.

 

[p-Bar]

Cummins stated that we can run B20 so the fuel isn't the issue. Is the reflash related to your year truck?

 

[CSilkowski]

Sounds like maybe injectors.

 

[betterthanstock]

I Have Very good fuel PSI. Dodge has told me that and I have checked too. Any other inputs??

Original lift pump? The fuel could be draining out of the rail thru the lift pump check valve, or thru some leaky injector, and it would take a while to pump the air out of the lines. You need to hook up a digital voltmeter to the fuel rail high pressure sensor and measure the voltage as you crank it.

With engine off it needs to be about 0. 5 volt, cranking about 1. 3V, full power about 4V. Terminal 1 is ground, terminal 2 is sensor voltage, terminal 3 is +5volt supply to sensor. If it takes a few seconds for the voltage to rise past 1V, you have a leakage problem, and it's pumping out the air.

 

[hsmith]

I am working on a '04 with the same problem, and am going to pull the injectors for testing. Any special tools needed to pull them, and what about the injector tubes. Do they need to be removed? I am assuming, and I know what assume means, the tubes are external where the lines connect.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rbattelle]

Sorry to hear this, Navy. Any chance you could try another dealer? It's obvious this one doesn't want your business.

I agree with betterthanstock that you need to be sure this really is an injector problem and not something leaking elsewhere in the fuel system.

If it is definitely an injector, then I Bholm's injector tip idea is a good one.

hsmith, here's the definitive thread on injector replacement.

 

[KWilkinson]

This is the type of situation why i dont work for the dealers anymore. First off about the biofuel, Cummins certified 20%, so you can tell the dealer to kiss your #@$%! Second, there is a flash for long crank, but its mainly for long crank after hot soaks. There are a lot of programming issues in the common rails, some have fixes but most dont. As for contaminated fuel, let me tell you a little something I was TOLD to keep under wraps by my Cummins training instructor.



Starting in late 05 when Chrysler switched to OEM in-tank lift pumps, they relocated the rollover valves. Remember the "Rollover Valve Hose" recall? They are positioned at the ends of the tank, sunk in to a little "valley". There is no vent on the pump, the valves are designed to act as the tank vents. Well, Im no physicist, but when fuel sloshes from front to back, vacuum is created on the opposing side, correct? So air will enter through the rollover valve. With the valve being in a valley, dirt, water, grime, whatever can collect there gets sucked into the tank. It gets picked up by the pump, and circulated through the fuel system. Anything 4 micron or larger will damage an injector pintle. Chrysler started with a 10, now a 7 micron filter, a NOMINAL filter at that. Gee, sound dumb to you too?



Sure, I loved the customer paid hours for doing a "Chrysler recommended fuel contamination repair" which is replacing everything. Dropping and cleaning the tank, new pump, flushing lines, new CP3, new rail, cleaning lines, new injectors and crossover tubes, flushing the head and return line. Paid about 12 hours, and maybe took me 6 or 7.



But I hate looking at someone and telling them that Chrysler is bending them over. Thats why I left the dealerships. If you want my opinion, get ahold of the district chrysler representative, and plead this case about the rollover valves causing your fuel system issues, because 9 times out of 10, it is. Sometimes you can catch a rep and play their own game, and can get it fixed, and sometimes not. Its worth a try though.



I am sorry to hear of all of your troubles. I just sold my 01 and bought a 07 5. 9, and a few pre-motor fuel system modifications have already been made. Best of luck.

 

[navyramman]

Thank you all very much, I could not live with the 15 to 20 sec start up. I got rid of it. I now have an 2007. 5 with 6. 7.

happy trucking all.