Talked to K&N, they were useless!

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I tried a K&N in the stock air box recently. After a few days I took off the box lid to check on things. There was no sealing grease on half the lid. The filter wasn't touching the lid. Also, you could see where dirt was getting around the filter. So, I pulled the filter and checked on the bottom side. (Note: I couldn't tell from the instructions what side to put the grease on. I decided to put it on both sides of the filter flange) On the bottom side, 90% of the grease was still on the filter. The filter wasn't sealing. For kicks I greased an old paper filter. It left a grease ring all the way around the lid. It also appeared to seal better.

I called K&N and reported my finding. They first verified that I had the proper filter #. I did. They guy then said that the grease only goes on the bottom of the filter flange. I told him it was obvious that it wasn't sealing and air was getting around the filter. He said that they had never had any problems, and that even though it didn't seal to the lid, it still works?! I was never offered a refund or another filter to try. They just kept saying they had never had any problems and that the filter works. I responded that mine wasn't working. They told me that they couldn't tell me anything else without looking at my truck(K&N is in CA. I am in TN!) They wouldn't do anything for me. What happened to customer service?

I have always used K&N, but now I am not sure. I am going to try an Amsoil filer. Am I the only one that can't get the filter to seal. How hard would it be for them to make the flange a litte thicker? Tell me if I am doing something wrong!

 

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That's weird, becuase when I calle about my problem of the RE0880 conical filter leaking dirt they said "Send it in and we'll warranty replace it. " Didn't have to persuade the guy at all. But his apparent level of knowledge when talking filters didnt' inspire confidence in this guys ability, especially the part about K&N doesn't recommend the cone filter (or any filter?) on a turbo-diesel engine.

I am looking at Racor filters, I think they have a drop-in OEM type. Racors filter at a minimum of 99. 4% efficient for 0. 5 microns (yeas, half a micron!) and even 100. 00% for larger particles! It is supposed to have 2x the capacity of a pleated paper filter, but is not resuable.

Vaughn

 

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#ad
The bottom of the filter flange? You're right about the instructions being poor. I had to study them awhile before I'd even put it on. The way I understand it, on the top of the filter, where the lid presses down on it, there are 2 small ridges sticking up. I put the sealing grease between those 2 ridges, level with them in fact. Forget calling K&N for tech info, you're right, they're useless. What kind of grease are you sealing it with? K&N guy told me I could use white lithium when I called them because I couldn't find any of the sealing grease. #ad
Trust me, you don't want to do that. I finally found a suitable replacement grease that seems to be working, though I have to admit, that with some of the negative threads on the K&N around here lately, I'm starting to wonder if I need to go back to the paper filter.

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95 2500 SLT Laramie 3. 54, automatic,Herculiner bed liner, JVC cd out of factory infinity system, southwest grill gaurd (a favorite amongst the deer population), K&N, AFC adjusted, dual straight exhaust out of "gutless" cat, Geno's dual EGT/boost gauge, TST #6 plate slid all the way forward, AFC housing slid all the way forward, silencer ring removed
"Layin' the 'SMOKEDOWN' on their ROOdy Poo CANDY GASSERS!"

 

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Vaughn, keep us posted on the Racor research. This crazy air filter thread still isn't solved for many of us. I would definently like to flow more air than stock but I am leery of those oil type filters. I have used them before but not on a turbo vehicle.

 

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Botton line question...

Does the K&N really help performance significantly? I've read mixed posts on performance gains & egts. Turbo noise is cool & all that, but grit in our bad ass Cummins diesels is not cool.

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2k, 15k miles, QC, 4x, 6sp, 3. 54,285/75r16 bfg/at, VA, DD1's, PS Boost module, DD Elbow, stock air cleaner (reliable), silencer ring "in" (runs better), popup cmpr, 9000 lbs. 15-16. 5 mpg's. Say no mas.

 

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Has anyone talked to Scott about the possibility of getting a paper filter made by a manufacturer that will fit his Psycotty air unit. I ordered one from him, (haven't gotten it yet), but am now leery of putting the unit on the truck if it will allow dirt to leak thru.
Comment????

Ed

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1999 QC SLT 4x4 LB 2500 Cummins, 6 speed, HD.

 

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Originally posted by Ed:
Has anyone talked to Scott about the possibility of getting a paper filter made by a manufacturer that will fit his Psycotty air unit. I ordered one from him, (haven't gotten it yet), but am now leery of putting the unit on the truck if it will allow dirt to leak thru.
Comment????

Ed

<font color=teal>I know he is looking for "options" I remember reading a post by him. Also he is waiting to have another "batch" made up as I understand it and he just had surgery (nuthing life threatening, I'll let him tell ya if he wants to share it) so hes not back on his feet yet from what I understand, he assured me he will get a lil more "proactive" when he can drive again.


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• <font color=blue>
• Eric D. Howard - #ad
  - BOMB'er! - #ad
  - TDR Member since April 8th, 2000
• 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 HD 4x4 SLT Auto Reg cab Cummins Turbo Diesel 4. 10 gear ratio LT265/75R/16 tires
• Patriot Blue Pearl Coat, Agate interior, Leather seats EVERY option, Silencer Ring AWOL, Trans Go Shift Kit
• JRE 4" Exhaust, "Hot" PowerEdge, Autometer UltraLite Gauges (EGT, Custom Boost, transmission temp), K&N Airfilter</font>

<font size=-2>

[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (edited 08-17-2000). ]

 

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When someone with the credentials of J. P. Donnelly tells you that the K&N filter passes dirt and oil - how much more convincing do you need! He has removed 1000's of air boxes and has experience. It seems like those of you that "think" you need more air would demand that K&N provide flow tests rather than continue to buy their $75 air filters. And then K&N publishes a statement that their filter works better the dirtier it gets! Am I missing a page or two? If your "filter minder" doesn't record anything then you're not using all the air that's possible thru the stock filter. Has anyone ever made a statement that they're getting dirt past the OE filter - NO. Has anyone ever made a statement that they're getting dirt past their K&N - YES. Come on! Your Dodge manual tells you not to check the air filter for dirt because the gasket compresses after time and won't seal properly again. Do you really think that K&N has better gasket material? An OE filter is $12 - every 25000 miles. A K&N is $75 and lasts 1000000 miles and you remove, clean and oil it 4 times. I have a single minded goal in life - and that's to celebrate the day K&N disappears. Just MYHO

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99' Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 30K Miles.
26' Terry w/slide 7500GVWR
"KISS your truck and it will be forever faithful"

 

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I have the Psycotty which of course uses the K&N Re0880 filter. I drive on a dusty dirt road at least 3 to 4 times a week for over a mile. I have been using the Re0880 for over two months now and there is NO dust or oil residue inside the air hose or on the turbo vanes. There was a discussion on this forum about the size of the dirt particles in the different parts of the country. WHERE you live and drive might be the reason why some are having problems and others don't.

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1996 3500 Clubcab SLT, auto, 4. 10 limited-slip, TST #5, Psycotty Air, Dunrite converter, Trans-Go shift kit, Straight pipe, DiPricol EGT, boost & trans temp. gauges, 9 ft. aluminum flatbed and tool boxes with Venco dump. Custom front bumper, Hadley air horn.

 

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I just spent the better part of a week camping in the mountains almost everyday we found a new lake to go to all on pretty bad 4X4 trails. I just pulled my Psycotty system off again this morning and there is nothing getting through the K&N RE-0880 filter and it is about time to clean it it is very dirty on the out side but clean as can be internally. The turbo blades look like new still.

 

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I just checked my Amsoil filter, which has
been installed for 11,000 miles now. No sign
of dirt at all getting past the filter. No
signs of excess oil in the hose going to the
turbo, and the turbo is as clean as new.

I also noticed that the Amsoil filter does
not silence the turbo whistle that occurs
during spoolup/spooldown, which combined
with removal of the Silencer Ring, gives
your Cummins that Big Rig sound that the
stockers and PSD's envy! #ad


The part numbers for the Amsoil filter
and filter oil are:

TS-106 (fits Ram with Cummins, stock box)
AFO-BC (8oz bottle of filter oil)

If you are interested, email me for pricing.
I can have it shipped direct to your door.
What does K&N charge for thier filter for
the Cummins application? I think the Amsoil
filter is cheaper, but I'm not sure.

Chris McKendry


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'01 3500 QC 4x4 SLT, Dk. Garnet Red, tan interior.
Cummins ETC, 5-speed, 3. 54 anti-spin; Line-X
BOMBed! Power Edge module, Auto Meter boost and pyro
gauges on A-pillar; Valentine One
Kenwood TM742 tri-band Ham Radio VHF/UHF/6M & GPS
APRS Tracker N5CWM-14
My 2001 Cummins Ram modifications website
May the Boost be With You!

 

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I’ve used K&Ns on my gas vehicles for many years, but I won’t put one on my Cummins. K&N seems to have some quality control problems in producing their filters. For each filter you buy, you need to check how well the bottom of the gasket fits the air box and also inspect the filter media for holes. Yes, holes. You should hold the new oiled filter up to a bright light and inspect the pleated cotton fiber media using a magnifying glass (I use a dissecting microscope). I had a filter with openings large enough to see with the naked eye. That means that the holes had to be at least 50 microns, which will let visible dust particles through. Maybe that’s why the company states that they filter better after they get dirty. If you get a bad one, return it to the dealer and let them deal with K&N.

So why do I still use them at all? Well, if you have one that fits well and doesn’t have holes in it they last for the life of the car and give me about a 7 - 8% increase in milage in normally aspirated gas engines. Most folks don't report a milage or performance increase with a diesel (except lower EGT). So I won’t take a chance using a K&N with the increased airflow requirements of a turbo. Product inconsistency is probably the reason some people are having problems with K&Ns and not others. Hey, even some condoms are sold with holes in them, right?


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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags

 

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Hey Tom,

Quit beating around the bush--tell it like it is!! #ad
#ad
#ad
.

How many times did you have to put grease on your OE filter to get it to seal??

I won't spend $75 for a K&N and smear grease all over it and hope it seals when I can buy perfectly good $12 Fleetguard filter that fits and which is deisgned for the Cummins engine either!!

Bill

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Y2K 3500QC, 6 Speed, 4. 10, SLT+, Camper & Tow Pkg. , Westin Chrome Nerf Bars, Mopar Flaps, Reese 20K Hitch, V-A CPC, EGT & Boost Gauges, RPM 45 Gallon Aux. Fuel Tank, Highway Products 5th Wheel Toolbox, ECM Controlled PacBrake, Painless Wiring Kit, Mag-Hytec Diff. Cover, 80% Towing Hitchhiker II 31', 2 slideouts, 19,750 GCW

 

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Shortshift, after running my K&N then putting the airbox back in, it was very noticeable that my power dropped!!! Took the edge off my power, less snappy throttle response. Throwing out the fitting to the fender helped a little though.

It appears Racor does not have a filter for our applicaton, and their conical filters are also oiled cotton units. I think all their conical units are all drop-in and don't have the nice neck to attach to the air tube. Racor is very limited in the air filter market, they are into fuel and crankcase filters. They have a nice unit that attaches to the blowby tube that works sorta like the AirSep and drains oil back to your pan. Slick looking unit, worth looking into.

I wish someone had some stats on filter performance for K&N and Amsoil. So far I haven't seen anyone posts complaints about the Amsoil except it's harder to clean, but there are way more members on this board with K&Ns than Amsoil air filters so it's hard to compare.

I think my solution will be to retain my airbox and "Son of Psychotty" it, then use stock air filters or maybe an Amsoil filter.

Vaughn

 

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The K & N I put in my stock airbox pulled apart, literally... the screen came out...
Amsoil or stock filters are the only way to go, when using the stock box.
However, I'm running a K & N RE-870 cone type attached to the end of my turbo hose, sort of like Psychotty, without going through the firewall. It lowered my EGT's quite a bit, I could see the difference on my gauges. The filter to hose seal is very good, unlike the stock type application... .
We need to petition Amsoil for a cone-type high flow filter for our trucks, or at least a universal fit 4 inch inlet cone filter. I, too, am considering re-installing the stock box and Amsoil filter, and finding a way to run an extra hose to the box...

 

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Originally posted by Ed:
Has anyone talked to Scott about the possibility of getting a paper filter made by a manufacturer that will fit his Psycotty air unit. I ordered one from him, (haven't gotten it yet), but am now leery of putting the unit on the truck if it will allow dirt to leak thru.
Comment????

Ed? I tried to ship a unit to you via UPS and it got rejected as I do not have your ph number. It MUST have a phone number for me to ship. Customs flagged it. I do not have an e-mail address for you so please contact me via e-mail with a ph number and I will ship another unit out on the next batch. Sorry for the delay... I did not think there would be a problem and had no way to contact you quickly.

EH

Ed

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My Site

 

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Wow, I never thought that there would be this much hoopla about the K&N. I think the new style(94 and up) air boxes are part of the problem as the seal really sucks on the top of the box. In our old beasts the filter is a cylinder and bolts right onto the hose to the turbo. The Psycotty system is sort of the same idea with the clamp onto the hose. The grease seal thing seams pretty hoaky. I would try a foam gasket in the box or something like that.
I've had the K&N for about 4 years without any buildup on the blades, not more than when I bought the truck that ran paper filters since new.
Another $0. 02 eh.

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Jason's Lil' Mack - 89 D250LE 2WD 5 Spd 3. 54 Reg Cab. K&N,"tweaked pump", BD Hi perf Injectors, Banks Pyro/Boost, 3. 5" Exst tail section straight. 23 Lbs boost.
E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4, PIAA 80W/80W HdLites. 100W Drv,55W Fogs.
229,000 miles (366,000 Kms) 7550 Hrs.

 

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Great thread.

Vaughn, that makes it more interesting hearing about the snappiness difference going w/ the k&n. Have also read some reports on lower egts. Just not hearing very much. Mine is like "Tlippy"'s and my filter minder has not ever moved. It makes me think either the minder isnt sensitive enough, or there really isn't a restriction there. If there really is an improvement over stock, then maybe the Amsoil is a safer way to go. ?



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2k, 15k miles, QC, 4x, 6sp, 3. 54,285/75r16 bfg/at, VA, DD1's, PS Boost module, DD Elbow, stock air cleaner (reliable), silencer ring "in" (runs better), popup cmpr, 9000 lbs. 15-16. 5 mpg's. Say no mas.

 

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I checked my K&N when I did my Son of Psycotty install,it was fine. The next time I open the airbox will be in 100K miles unless the filter minder says its restricted. According to the'95 owners manual,"A visual inspection of the air cleaner filter element is never recommended. A badly restricted element may appear clean while a soiled element may be quite effective in filtering particles without restricting air flow. Rely on the Filter Minder to determine when a filter change is necessary. "I'm starting to wonder if some of you are over inspecting your filters. Every time you open&close the airbox you are recompressing the gasket,sort of like using the same fuel filter O-ring over and over,you are taking a chance of getting a leak. The filter minder is such a simple device that if it dosn't work it will be visually broken,you can trust them. My JD and MF tractors go a step further,they have a restricted filter dash light. JD manual states,"Inspecting air filter element before the warning light is illuminated is counter productive". What I've seen on the tractor filters after the light comes on would scare the hell out of most Cummins owners. The pleats are entirely full of dust that extends out a half inch beyond the element,yet the tractors run fine, many times the light will even go out before you can clean the filter. So maybe it's time to stop checking to see if the light in your refrigerator goes out every time you close the door. All the filters work if they aren't visaully damaged, are installed correctly and aren't continually molested,some just breathe better than others. My . 02

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,driftwood,Banks&phscotty,34,000 GVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

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tlippy The stock filter also filters better after it gets dirty.

I haven't had any problems with the gassers that have the K&N and, I have less dirt getting by the K&N than the paper filter.

How much more vacum(sp) is seen by the filter on a turbo charged diesel compared to a naturally aspirated gasser?