Test drove a 6.0 PS and traded my 2003 Dodge

[BHolm]

I'm not sure how someone can slam on Ford for downsizing their diesel. The CTD has been 5. 9L since day one. Is there some reason Ford can't put up good numbers with a 6. 0?



I have owned them all now. I have driven several 6. 0's. I passed on it this time because they(owners) are reporting more problems than I want to deal with right now. Chances are I would get a good one, I got a great one in my 99. If not, I would be pretty PO'ed. Those are really nice trucks though IMO. I think the interior puts the Dodge to shame, especially the King Ranch versions (admittedly overpriced). They give you a five speed auto with grade braking, something Dodge hasn't caught onto yet. Both of my Allison trucks have it and until you use it, you have no idea what you are missing, it is awesome in the mountains.



I think each one has something to offer. I like my Chevys because they ride by FAR the best of the three. They have great power for "personal use", they are downright fast for a diesel truck. They do NOT make a good work truck IMO. Both Ford and Dodge kill them there. The Ford is a good compromise, and mine has been supremely reliable. Solid axles, modern transmission, and well built. I picked the Dodge this time because I wanted the best puller for work. The Dodge has the best low end torque by a huge margin. While the 48RE doesn't offer the grade braking, it is the only auto out there willing to let the engine work in the meat of the torque. The Allison equipped Chey's are the worst. They want to run big rpms. Down goes the milage, up goes the noise and wear. I also know that the CTD is by far the best engine. Until now (03) I was pretty worried about the rest of the truck(and auto trans). They seem to have fixed the problems and I am back. I expect this Dodge to become the favorite puller around here. The other brands though certainly have something to offer. Without those big HP numbers, the HO Cummins may never have been. I am glad it is, and I love this new truck

 

[Pit Bull]

BHolm

'03 3500 DRW Reg Cab HO auto

'03 2500HD CC LB Duramax/Allison

'01 2500HD Ext SB Duramax/Allison

99. 5 F350 SRW Reg Cab PSD auto



Good perspective Now what do you think about them all when you add in price? Initial and the cost to maintain?

 

[BHolm]

I'm not trying to start any kind of war, so take this as my OPINION



The 99 Ford has possibly been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. It now has 220k miles on it. This truck pulls max GVW loads almost daily. It plows snow on my 10 acre yard in northern Minnesota and it has lived outside all of its life. It has never once failed me. Just a couple of weeks ago it got a new auto transmission and now with the Dodge on line I will rebuild the rear end. Not bad for a bunch of miles, multiple drivers and a lot of hard work. You can get around the expensive filters by buying them from a Navistar dealer. I pay $12 for fuel filters ($70 at the dealer) and other than regular, by the book maint. it has needed nothing. From what I saw shopping recently the Ford and Dodge are priced very comparably.



The Chevy trucks are a different story. They are by far the most expensive when new. I bought the '01 because it was the "new" thing at the time. It had the most advertised power and the new Allison five speed trans. Problem is, the General set it up like a nice car with a quiet, powerful diesel engine. I replaced the mirrors, tires and shocks almost immediately as they were not up to the work I need it to do. Then I hauled my triple axle flat to Atlanta to pick up a truck. On the way home the stupid Allison would not pull in fifth. I was getting 5mpg, and I was ****** I ended up getting some good help via the Chev diesel board. I had an Allison rep come to my door. We loaded up the truck, hooked up a laptop and went for a drive. The data collected that day ended up as a computer reflash for all of the Allison equipped trucks. Since then it has also been reliable and pretty inexpensive to maintain. I prefer to use this truck as a runner rather than a heavy hauler. IMO the chevy is just not up to the task of working hard day in and day out. It may do it and, many do use them like that but, both the Ford and Dodge do it better.



I bought the '03 Dura-pooch for personal use. My wife drives it mostly. It is the easiest to get in and out of. It is the quietest of the diesels. It is loaded to the gills with leather, CD changer, DVD player etc, etc, etc. It really is a nice vehicle. Still I swapped the tires to 285 BFG's because I can't stand the little tire look Chevy insists on selling. I will use it to pull my boat, my car and the Bobcat, nothing too overt. For the way I use it, it beats anything else out there.



I am really impressed with this Dodge. I always knew the Cummins was the best of the bunch. I only have 200 miles on it so far but my impression is that it will be by far the best working rig I have. I am hopeful that the transmission issues and front suspension issues have been ironed out for '03. That and the new HO engine sold me. I intend to have it ready to pull by early next week. I will definately post comparitive impressions if anybody is interested.

 

[johnrv4]

Thanks for you Opinion

Thanks for sharing your opinion BHolm. It is nice to read an unbiased opinion from somebody like yourself. Keep us informed on the new Dodge and how it works for you. I'd like to know what you think after you doing some pulling with it.

 

[dnitzel]

Originally posted by krabman

Last weekend at BD one dyned 265, and that was with a chip. I saw one go 238/380 at Monroe this winter. Cant say I really believe those numbers Ford is claiming. Even if they were true It still wouldnt change in my mind which is the better engine or truck.

Nothing like a good spirited posting!



I doubt that Ford would ever lie about anything... ... ... . except the Exploder.

 

[Walcott]

dyno at may madness

What a blast at mm in vegas,wanted to post exact #'s i watched a new 6. 0 dynoon thurs. --232 hp rwhp,my 03 ho 48re did 245 rwhp. Both trucks stock

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: dyno at may madness

Originally posted by Walcott

What a blast at mm in vegas,wanted to post exact #'s i watched a new 6. 0 dynoon thurs. --232 hp rwhp stock

A stock 02 ETH/DEE will beat that. Does Ford just make up the numbers that the advertise?

 

[BHolm]

Re: Re: dyno at may madness

Originally posted by Pit Bull

A stock 02 ETH/DEE will beat that. Does Ford just make up the numbers that the advertise?

WELL... ... ... . They did just that on the Mustang just a couple of years ago. They got caught by the stang owners for doing so. Dyno numbers were not measuring up. I do not recall if they recieved money or the correct parts to make the power.



The other problem I have is that the HO did not live up to its rating either judging by those numbers. Even with a GENEROUS 20% driveline loss figured the HO comes to 294hp



What kind of dyno was it? The "Mustang" brand dynos generally come up a little low. "Dynojet" seems to give numbers closer to rated when driveline losses are figured.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: Re: Re: dyno at may madness

Originally posted by BHolm



The other problem I have is that the HO did not live up to its rating either judging by those numbers. Even with a GENEROUS 20% driveline loss figured the HO comes to 294hp

That is interesting because with a 20% driveline loss the 02's should be only putting out 196 HP at the rear wheels. Looks like the average 02 HO is having only a 5% driveline loss That means it should be rated closer to 280 HP considering a 20% driveline loss. No wonder they beefed that big boy up. It will be interesting to see if the 02 HO's and the 03 HO's end up around the same stock rear wheel HP and if Dodge is also playing the Ford HP game.

 

[BHolm]

My experience with driveline losses are that manual transmissions generally come in about 15%, autos are 2-3% greater loss.



There are tons of variables though. TD's are tricky to dyno as well. If there isn't enough load on the engine, you will not get full boost or full power. The Chevy guys are funny this way. They all seem to think that these are cars and are climbing all over each other to make the fastest truck on a dragstrip. To get good dyno numbers they will often powerbrake to get the boost up. Then you have temp corrections and making sure you have good cooling air through the front of the truck etc, etc.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Hmmm

Originally posted by stevencarroll

Even if the ford has more power,it wouldnt be enough to run circles around the dodge. It would be very close either way. I have been for a ride in the 6. 0 with the torque shift, my dodge has the 6 speed so it was really hard to judge. After 50mph i wouldnt be afraid of the 6. 0 at all. The dodge gets 5 mpg better than the ford. The oil filters for dodge coast 8. 95 fords coast 25. 00 to 35. 00. Air filters dodge 25. 00 Ford 118. 00 . All things considered i think dodge wins hands down. Friday i went to twin falls to buy a used car for my daughter. On the hertz used car lot there were 11 6. 0 psd and only 2 03 ctds.

Just thought I'd stick my nose in and say that my '03 3500 6-spd HO SWR w/14K is getting 20. 5 mpg solo. It'll also do 105 on the straight-away (yes, the GPS was running and confirmed it). Colorado is CTD country so I haven't seen many PSDs around to challenge me. Anyway, me and a whole lotta other folks are where we wanna be so that's about all I gotta say.

 

[Dean Upson]

Anyway, me and a whole lotta other folks are where we wanna be so that's about all I gotta say.

You can include me, Jermiah .



Dean

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Thanks for you Opinion

Originally posted by johnrv4

Thanks for sharing your opinion BHolm. It is nice to read an unbiased opinion from somebody like yourself. Keep us informed on the new Dodge and how it works for you. I'd like to know what you think after you doing some pulling with it.

Just a comment because Turbo Diesel owners be talking about them BF & G tires. I saw something on the 'Net today that BFG is owned by a French company. I ain't puttin' nothing French on my truck ... too many American boys laying in French cemeteries for me to do that right now. Maybe later after France gets the idea we didn't like what they did to us in Iraq, but not now.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: Re: Thanks for you Opinion

Originally posted by Jeremiah

Just a comment because Turbo Diesel owners be talking about them BF & G tires. I saw something on the 'Net today that BFG is owned by a French company. I ain't puttin' nothing French on my truck ... too many American boys laying in French cemeteries for me to do that right now. Maybe later after France gets the idea we didn't like what they did to us in Iraq, but not now.

You should buy some Michelins :-laf

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Re: Re: Thanks for you Opinion

Originally posted by Pit Bull

You should buy some Michelins :-laf

I used to run Michelins and loved 'em. I think I'll pass right now. Maybe later, depending ...

 

[dnitzel]

Re: Re: Thanks for you Opinion

Originally posted by Jeremiah

Just a comment because Turbo Diesel owners be talking about them BF & G tires. I saw something on the 'Net today that BFG is owned by a French company. I ain't puttin' nothing French on my truck ... too many American boys laying in French cemeteries for me to do that right now. Maybe later after France gets the idea we didn't like what they did to us in Iraq, but not now.

Well, here 'ya go. According to the Tire Industry Safety Council, BFG is owned by Michelin. http://www.flatfree.com/tisc/michelin.html



Michelin North America, Inc. is part of the Michelin Group, with headquarters in Clermont-Ferrand, France. That kinda makes Michelin French? Goodyears are American. They make a good tire in my book, definately the best traction tire, the MTR. I have some BFG 285's right now. They seem to be OK. I probably would have gone with the MTRs if I knew about the BFG connection. But then again, my truck was made in Mexico, something that kinda bugs the heck outa me. I think that cars/trucks that are sold here in the US, should only feature background music from the country the vehicle was made. My Dodge? Mexican festival music. Mitsubishi's, toyotas, nissons made in J A pan should have japanese music. French tires, well... .....



By the way, got this off of the BFG site from the UK: A pioneer of American industry, the BFGoodrich® Tires brand is at the forefront of technical advances in the USA. http://www.bfgoodrichtires.co.uk/anglais/histoire/

 

[Pit Bull]

Dan that's why I said to buy Michelins ( I was being a smart ass ). Any of the big manufactures are multi-national companies with plants and offices all over the globe. Many of our larger companies have moved their HQ's to off shore islands for tax avoidance purposes. I would not avoid buying a product based on where the company is Headquartered or where the product is assembled. Generally if you do this you will only hurt americans that work for this company. Now I might get mad at my congressmen for letting a company avoid paying taxes because they moved their business HQ off shore I say buy what you feel is the best product to fit your needs. JMHO

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Re: Re: Thanks for you Opinion

I think that cars/trucks that are sold here in the US, should only feature background music from the country the vehicle was made. My Dodge? Mexican festival music. Mitsubishi's, toyotas, nissons made in J A pan should have japanese music. French tires, well... .....



That's funny! Trucks running on Michelin or BFG tires could have French horn background music. Or maybe french fries in the ash tray. How about a year's supply of Rochefort cheese in case the tires go down (no pun intended) before they're supposed to.

 

[dnitzel]

From http://www.off-road.com/ford/news/2003_05/

I'm sure many of you already know this... ... ... .....



At Ford Motor Company, providing customers with high quality, dependable vehicles has been a top priority for 100 years. In order to maintain these standards, the company is offering no-charge Customer Satisfaction Programs to owners of certain 2003 MY F-Superduty (250-550) and Excursion models with 6. 0L diesel engines.





A number of these vehicles may exhibit reduced engine performance and rough idle due to a faulty Injection Control Pressure (ICP) sensor. Additional vehicles may exhibit the same symptoms in cold weather conditions due to a mismatch in the Fuel Injection Control Module (FICM) and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Two Customer Satisfaction Programs are underway to repair these concerns.





Customer notification letters were mailed out in mid-April (Customer Satisfaction Programs 03B05 and 03B06) to owners of approximately 47,000 2003 model year Ford F-Series Superduty (250/350/450/550) and Excursion vehicles equipped with 6. 0 liter diesel engines built from Job #1, June 2002, through February 3, 2003.



These vehicles may exhibit reduced engine performance and rough idle due to powertrain calibration and Injection Control Pressure sensor (ICP) concerns. Dealers will reprogram the Powertrain Control Module and replace the ICP sensor at no charge.





An additional 19,482 trucks built from Job #1, June 2002, through February 23, 2003 are covered in Customer Satisfaction Program 03B06 for reprogramming of the Powertrain Control Module only. (Note: After February 3, 2003, a redesigned ICP sensor was installed in production. Replacement of this part is not required for vehicles in program 030B06. )







As a show of appreciation to our customers, Ford is offering one free Motorcraft oil and filter change at authorized dealers. This offer is for affected vehicles only and will expire December 31, 2003. The voluntary Customer Satisfaction Programs will be in effect through December 31, 2005, regardless of mileage.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by dnitzel

From http://www.off-road.com/ford/news/2003_05/

I'm sure many of you already know this... ... ... .....



At Ford Motor Company, providing customers with high quality, dependable vehicles has been a top priority for 100 years. In order to maintain these standards, the company is offering no-charge Customer Satisfaction Programs to owners of certain 2003 MY F-Superduty (250-550) and Excursion models with 6. 0L diesel engines.





A number of these vehicles may exhibit reduced engine performance and rough idle due to a faulty Injection Control Pressure (ICP) sensor. Additional vehicles may exhibit the same symptoms in cold weather conditions due to a mismatch in the Fuel Injection Control Module (FICM) and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Two Customer Satisfaction Programs are underway to repair these concerns.





Customer notification letters were mailed out in mid-April (Customer Satisfaction Programs 03B05 and 03B06) to owners of approximately 47,000 2003 model year Ford F-Series Superduty (250/350/450/550) and Excursion vehicles equipped with 6. 0 liter diesel engines built from Job #1, June 2002, through February 3, 2003.



These vehicles may exhibit reduced engine performance and rough idle due to powertrain calibration and Injection Control Pressure sensor (ICP) concerns. Dealers will reprogram the Powertrain Control Module and replace the ICP sensor at no charge.





An additional 19,482 trucks built from Job #1, June 2002, through February 23, 2003 are covered in Customer Satisfaction Program 03B06 for reprogramming of the Powertrain Control Module only. (Note: After February 3, 2003, a redesigned ICP sensor was installed in production. Replacement of this part is not required for vehicles in program 030B06. )







As a show of appreciation to our customers, Ford is offering one free Motorcraft oil and filter change at authorized dealers. This offer is for affected vehicles only and will expire December 31, 2003. The voluntary Customer Satisfaction Programs will be in effect through December 31, 2005, regardless of mileage.

BEAUTIFUL!