2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Test drove an 02 H.O. today, not really impressed.

[Cosmo]

02 HO 3500 flatbed 2wd, 260k miles... granted the bed looked a bit heavy, but I just felt like there should have been a bit more gusto. I think it had 4. 11 gears, cruising at ~70 it was right around 2000-2100 rpm.



I'm going from a 13-second '08 Cummins, and I understand the old 24-valve is going to have less than half the power, but it felt slower than my 96 Subaru.



Perhaps my expectations are just off. How quickly should these things spool up and start pulling? It felt like it just wasn't building boost. Unfortunately it didn't have any gauges so it's hard to know if fuel pressure was dropping off or if it was making any boost.



The only other 24-valve truck I've driven was a 5-speed 4x4 with an Edge programmer and it had the wick turned up a bit. Compared to my 08 when bone stock, this was disappointing.



Am I in for disappointment, going to a 2nd gen?

 

[RustyJC]

02 HO 3500 flatbed 2wd, 260k miles... granted the bed looked a bit heavy, but I just felt like there should have been a bit more gusto. I think it had 4. 11 gears, cruising at ~70 it was right around 2000-2100 rpm.

My 2002 3500 HO with 4. 10s was turning 2000 RPM @ 60 MPH and 2350 @ 70 MPH in 6th gear with the NV5600 6 speed. Sounds like the one you were driving may have had 3. 54s (the only other option).



With Diesel Dynamics Stage II injectors, an Edge EZ, Jardine 4" and BHAF, it dynoed at 347 rear wheel HP and 762 lb-ft torque. It ran quite well running empty or towing a 16K GVWR 5th wheel. The injectors and EZ really waked it up, but when the injectors went in, a South Bend CON O/FE clutch went in soon thereafter - the stock clutch would slip in 5th and 6th. I sold it when we took delivery of our 2011 - it still had the original VP-44 and lift pump!



Rusty

 

[Bob4x4]

The second gens are not as refined as the 3rds... ... ... only natural progression. If it were not that way there would be no incentive to buy new :-laf

The power issue... ... ... o2 245hp 08 350hp no brainer.

I still love my old 94 and drive it way more than my 05. 175hp vs 325

The second gens have character and are trucks,the newer models get more car like interiors every year

 

[Cosmo]

Yeah I get that the 6. 7 has almost half again as much power, but it was also an auto versus a manual. The boost on the 6. 7 hits fast, because of the vgt I'm going to assume, but it felt like the boost never spooled up until about 2800 rpm-ish.

The other thing was wheel spin. Granted I didn't flatfoot the throttle and side-step the clutch, but rolling in 1st or 2nd at idle then matting the throttle didn't result in anything notable. The tires didn't even feel like they were struggling for grip at all.


The first Cummins I drove was a ~92 W250 standard cab long bed with a 5-speed. It wasn't exactly a powerhouse, but it felt snappier iirc.

I guess I was expecting a little more from a "HO", but it was choked by the 9' steel flatbed and dual tires. The experience was further dulled by it not having power mirrors, the stereo being some no-name AM/FM HD tuner with aux input and SD slot, but no CD. If it had been a 4wd, I'd be more willing to deal with the little things.

Trust me, I'm a big fan of character - the truck I miss the most is my 86 W250. Definitely not big on power, but again it actually put you back in your seat a bit.

 

[dresslered]

I guess I was expecting a little more from a "HO", but it was choked by the 9' steel flatbed and dual tires.

A set of RV275's and a DDTTPM opens it up quite nicely.

 

[Wyomingcowboy]

A simple tuner would wake it, too. My '01 HO without the tuner feels similar to what you described.

 

[JMetzger]

My 02 HO 6 speed at 70 mph turns 2000 rpm. has the 3. 54 gears. No complaint on power pulling my 10000 RV. Have Banks Stinger. I know a lot of people do not like Banks but I have not had any problems with them, had it since 02 when truck was new.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

My '01 HO stock wasn't spectacular in the power department but a set of DD2s and a mild box it put down 321hp to the wheels.



Issues that truck could be having is maybe turbo related and/or clogged air filter, clogged fuel filter, faulty IAT sensor, etc. Sometimes it doesn't take a major issue to cause a significant drop in SOP power.

 

[Tractorat]

With the DD2's, did you have any other mods besides the mild box ? (I have an EZ, and that is all)

 

[AH64ID]

The other thing was wheel spin. Granted I didn't flatfoot the throttle and side-step the clutch, but rolling in 1st or 2nd at idle then matting the throttle didn't result in anything notable. The tires didn't even feel like they were struggling for grip at all.

My 05 has right around 800 ft/lbs to the rear wheels and I never feel like I am struggling for grip, if a stock 02 felt like it was struggling for grip I would be ******!!



It doesn't sound like anything more than a much lower rated, less reactive engine with 260K miles on it! 3. 54's will also decrease the seat of the pants feel.

 

[Regcabguy]

With the DD2's, did you have any other mods besides the mild box ? (I have an EZ, and that is all)

I had DD2's,then Mach 1. 6's(dumb move) and an EZ on my 98. 5. With the DTT trans it put down 301/640. I felt that was a quick truck even with the popup camper on all the time.

 

[Cosmo]

My 05 has right around 800 ft/lbs to the rear wheels and I never feel like I am struggling for grip, if a stock 02 felt like it was struggling for grip I would be ******!!



It doesn't sound like anything more than a much lower rated, less reactive engine with 260K miles on it! 3. 54's will also decrease the seat of the pants feel.

Well my 08 with the programmer turned all the way up should have been somewhere over 1000 lb-ft and it definitely smoked the heck out of the tires.



When I put it back to stock, with the exception of the suncoast trans/tcm stuff, it wouldn't roast the tires off the line but it would scramble for traction.







I looked at an 01 2500 qcsb 4x4 auto, some kind of short lift and bald 315/75r16 mud tires. The heater core was disconnected, there was some plastic needing replacement on the dash (glove box, cupholder), the paint was fading, the rear bumper has a rust hole through it and it's dented, and one of the tailgate stays was broken. All in all it's not in bad shape, maybe I'll drive it tomorrow and see how I like it. It does still have a block mounted pump, which is good because it means I don't have to screw around with finding a draw straw for my airdog.



$9k asking price won't fly, but if I could get it for $7k-7500 or so I might go for it.

 

[HHhuntitall]

It's been my experience that the HO's always seem a bit sluggish. I don't know if it's the programming loop that's slow, or if it's deliberately programmed to respond slow, but it seems to me that they all are arguing with themselves as to move out of their own smoke. I've got a '98 5spd with 90hp injectors and an Edge Comp box, and even on power level 1, it will flat out run off and leave most HO's... ... until you put 10,000lbs behind it, and then it will only slowly walk away uphill, and if the HO has a box, it's about even. So, to answer your question, I think it's just a characteristic of the HO in general, which can easily be fixed fairly reasonably. Also, as I think about it, it could have something to do with the 6spd transmission... . they just don't shift as fast as the 5spd, IMO.



Oh, and if you're running 70 at @ 2,000rpm, then it's probably got 3. 54 gears... ... .

 

[NIsaacs]

All the 1st. and 2nd. gen trucks are "sick" when stock. However they respond well with mild mods and will give a new truck fits, usually with less fuel.



Nick

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

With the DD2's, did you have any other mods besides the mild box ? (I have an EZ, and that is all)

No just the DD2s and a van Aaken box. The injectors were 2001 vintage and back then extrude hone process wasn't always as tight as nowadays and you could have quite a variance between the same size injector. I remember a batch of Stage 3s coming from Diesel Dynamics that were quite on the "hot" side, supposedly the guy kinda went to sleep at the EH machine and let too much slurry run through the tips. When word got out that batch of sticks were highly desirable :-laf

 

[bromano676]

A few years back I pulled my fifth wheel, 7000 lbs, from ny to Wisconsin. As I hit the hills in pa I felt real sluggish. The truck ran fine but no power. I had to drop gears and floorboard it just to get over the hill. And pa hills aren't that big. I could barely maintain 50 on some hills and I got 10 mpg on the first tank.

Well. Trouble in Indiana brought me into a few shops along my trip. I finally ended in a shop in Wisconsin who tested my injectors. Turns out 2 have low pop press. And 4 had poor atomization.

They installed rv275s. Ran 6 th gear all the way home, never had an egt problem, averaged 13. 6 mpg and ran up every hill with the best of them. Exact same load exact same trip injectors made a rediculouse difference.