RSchwarzli
TDR MEMBER
Figured no one else would do it so I should roll up my sleeves and make a video. Hope y’all enjoy.
Robert
Robert
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The Full History Of Dodge, Cummins, and The 1st Gen
- Thread starter RSchwarzli
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
Awesome job sir. I had both you and Troy back sin 2013. Troy seas quite the Gentleman, inviting us to dinner that one evening. His story of his time racing and his working on Chrysler V8’s left a mark on me. Best I can describe that conversation is it was like talking with God about how he developed the thumb. Ok that might be a bit extreme but as someone that turned a wrench on many 318’s 360’s and 440’s it was quite the experience. Thank you for putting this history down so it’s not forgotten.
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Good job Robert, long live the 1st gen. They are becoming rare and the Forum is getting quiet about them.
Just to add a little info to the story, Cummins offered repower in the early '90's with a lot of support. I bought a brand new, in the crate (not recon) 1990 5.9 for my Ford conversion. You were about 4 years old
I have an extra 1992 and '93 factory Dodge truck brochure that I would be glad to donate to your cause if you want them. Free shipping included.
Just to add a little info to the story, Cummins offered repower in the early '90's with a lot of support. I bought a brand new, in the crate (not recon) 1990 5.9 for my Ford conversion. You were about 4 years old
I have an extra 1992 and '93 factory Dodge truck brochure that I would be glad to donate to your cause if you want them. Free shipping included.
RSchwarzli
TDR MEMBER
Nice to still see you floating around here!
I am thinking you must not watch many good things then as this cant be THAT highly ranked lol
Good job.
Got to take one poke, though. Is it a Canadian thing to pronounce “radiator” as Radd-E-8-Or instead of the proper Ray-D-8-Or?
Bahahaha. Not the first to comment on that.
Yes, I have photos from that night. I remember that.
Good job Robert, long live the 1st gen. They are becoming rare and the Forum is getting quiet about them.
Just to add a little info to the story, Cummins offered repower in the early '90's with a lot of support. I bought a brand new, in the crate (not recon) 1990 5.9 for my Ford conversion. You were about 4 years old
I have an extra 1992 and '93 factory Dodge truck brochure that I would be glad to donate to your cause if you want them. Free shipping included.
View attachment 139783 View attachment 139784
Yes, the 1st Gen forums are getting far too quiet!
If you have no interest in the brochures, I would happily take them for the document stash! But would be happier if I could cover the shipping of them!
Honored you spent the time to watch it!
promisedland
TDR MEMBER
Excellent video, I enjoyed it!
Tuesdak
TDR MEMBER
Why do people have to pass away before the story can be told?
Correction: Others did not offer low compression. GM, Ford, and others had a high compression IDI engines ~21:1 just so they would get enough heat in the massive cold prechambers with the low pressure injection systems of the day to actually start. The DI 5.9L Cummins was 17:1. Dodge RAM didn't offer a diesel for most of the 1980's and IMO missed out by not offering the 5.9L in the Wagoneer. Maybe they missed out on the pain: tech training, clueless public about diesels, dirty wet diesel fuel...
You are worried about rumors so consider this: "Gasoline engine conversion" is incorrect old rumor for the 350 (5.7L) Olds 22:1 NA IDI Diesel Hand Grenade that ruined the NA diesel market for over 20 years. That Olds Diesel put Lemon Laws on the books while other engine and vehicle "bean counter" disasters say like the Chevy Vega oil burner or the Ford Pinto cremation coffin on wheels couldn't. (There was a low boost, ~3PSI, turbo kit offered for the 5.7L Olds as one barn find El Camino with one sold on ebay years ago.) As an aside it wasn't a new thing to do as many gasoline engines were successfully converted to diesel. Regardless The Olds 5.7L Diesel had a different block casting with thicker cylinder walls with a injection pump mounting casting in the valley, different pistons, etc, but, used the same assembly line tooling as the gasoline engine to save tooling costs. New at the time, with ZERO dealer tech training, single use TTY head bolts were used to try and overcome the lack of head bolts needed to hold 22:1 compression with diesel combustion. Same dimensions as the gasoline engine so the same tools could machine the diesel 350 block... Same tools caused the lack of head bolts. And thus the conversion rumor was born. This 350 (5.7L) Olds Diesel hand grenade was offered in pickups before the 1982 NA IDI 6.2L was offered.
Other diesel engine were proposed before the 5.7L disaster but the Cheap Cheap Cheap at GM couldn't turn down the tooling cost savings and bypassed the R&D. Others argue the cylinder deactivation Cadillac engines of the era were worse, but, clearly didn't have the widespread impact the Olds Diesel disaster did.
Oddly the IDI 6.2L Diesel is still in production as a punched out to 6.5L because the military needs them and treats them as the disposable and expendable engine they are.
The above context, GM's Diesel Bean Counter Diesel Disaster while GM's arrogant board of directors worried about their stock payout vs. EDS Ross Perot's is why it took a HD diesel engine to put Dodge RAM pickups on the map. Detroit Diesel, that GM owned, said use a Forged Crankshaft in the 6.2L diesel that came out in 1982. GM didn't and "Like a SNAP!" it later took a 100K warranty to sell the IDI 6.5TD diesel to the public.
Suppose the above is why they figured in the day: Maybe we sell only 1000 Dodge Cummins pickups.
Getting a gasoline engine to start and run without say vapor lock with high aromatics on unleaded of the early 1980's and the Big 3's arrogance to not bother with a better design like sublet fuel injection is in-line with the mediocre diesel offerings of the day. Of note Oldsmobile gasoline engine camshaft failures... The 1980's is why there is no longer a common "Big 3" in everyone's driveway like there used to be.
If this Cummins project didn't happen we would be talking about other legends like Ford's IDI or the Mercedes IDI that offered a optional turbo from 1979 on.
Because the Cummins project happened GM had to eat crow and work with Isuzu to build the Duramax. Then GM continued to insult diesel owners everywhere with "disposable diesel" engineers that have no business being anywhere near a "reliable" diesel engine.
FWIW Pictures say what's up better. 2003 5.9 HO Cummins vs. 1985 IDI 6.2L GM. Both engines failed. The 6.2 was scrap metal with cracks everywhere and a trashed roller cam. The Cummins had already been sleeved likely from a valve seat failure but was a failed rebuild as the sleeve was moving.
Correction: Others did not offer low compression. GM, Ford, and others had a high compression IDI engines ~21:1 just so they would get enough heat in the massive cold prechambers with the low pressure injection systems of the day to actually start. The DI 5.9L Cummins was 17:1. Dodge RAM didn't offer a diesel for most of the 1980's and IMO missed out by not offering the 5.9L in the Wagoneer. Maybe they missed out on the pain: tech training, clueless public about diesels, dirty wet diesel fuel...
You are worried about rumors so consider this: "Gasoline engine conversion" is incorrect old rumor for the 350 (5.7L) Olds 22:1 NA IDI Diesel Hand Grenade that ruined the NA diesel market for over 20 years. That Olds Diesel put Lemon Laws on the books while other engine and vehicle "bean counter" disasters say like the Chevy Vega oil burner or the Ford Pinto cremation coffin on wheels couldn't. (There was a low boost, ~3PSI, turbo kit offered for the 5.7L Olds as one barn find El Camino with one sold on ebay years ago.) As an aside it wasn't a new thing to do as many gasoline engines were successfully converted to diesel. Regardless The Olds 5.7L Diesel had a different block casting with thicker cylinder walls with a injection pump mounting casting in the valley, different pistons, etc, but, used the same assembly line tooling as the gasoline engine to save tooling costs. New at the time, with ZERO dealer tech training, single use TTY head bolts were used to try and overcome the lack of head bolts needed to hold 22:1 compression with diesel combustion. Same dimensions as the gasoline engine so the same tools could machine the diesel 350 block... Same tools caused the lack of head bolts. And thus the conversion rumor was born. This 350 (5.7L) Olds Diesel hand grenade was offered in pickups before the 1982 NA IDI 6.2L was offered.
Other diesel engine were proposed before the 5.7L disaster but the Cheap Cheap Cheap at GM couldn't turn down the tooling cost savings and bypassed the R&D. Others argue the cylinder deactivation Cadillac engines of the era were worse, but, clearly didn't have the widespread impact the Olds Diesel disaster did.
Oddly the IDI 6.2L Diesel is still in production as a punched out to 6.5L because the military needs them and treats them as the disposable and expendable engine they are.
The above context, GM's Diesel Bean Counter Diesel Disaster while GM's arrogant board of directors worried about their stock payout vs. EDS Ross Perot's is why it took a HD diesel engine to put Dodge RAM pickups on the map. Detroit Diesel, that GM owned, said use a Forged Crankshaft in the 6.2L diesel that came out in 1982. GM didn't and "Like a SNAP!" it later took a 100K warranty to sell the IDI 6.5TD diesel to the public.
Suppose the above is why they figured in the day: Maybe we sell only 1000 Dodge Cummins pickups.
Getting a gasoline engine to start and run without say vapor lock with high aromatics on unleaded of the early 1980's and the Big 3's arrogance to not bother with a better design like sublet fuel injection is in-line with the mediocre diesel offerings of the day. Of note Oldsmobile gasoline engine camshaft failures... The 1980's is why there is no longer a common "Big 3" in everyone's driveway like there used to be.
If this Cummins project didn't happen we would be talking about other legends like Ford's IDI or the Mercedes IDI that offered a optional turbo from 1979 on.
Because the Cummins project happened GM had to eat crow and work with Isuzu to build the Duramax. Then GM continued to insult diesel owners everywhere with "disposable diesel" engineers that have no business being anywhere near a "reliable" diesel engine.
FWIW Pictures say what's up better. 2003 5.9 HO Cummins vs. 1985 IDI 6.2L GM. Both engines failed. The 6.2 was scrap metal with cracks everywhere and a trashed roller cam. The Cummins had already been sleeved likely from a valve seat failure but was a failed rebuild as the sleeve was moving.
Last edited:
RSchwarzli
TDR MEMBER
Tuesdak
It has been pointed out many times to me (about 60-70) that I made an error in what I said about the other brand diesels. I have apologized for it 60-70 times and will say it again, they are not my specialty. Sorry for what I said.... I should have done more research....
It has been pointed out many times to me (about 60-70) that I made an error in what I said about the other brand diesels. I have apologized for it 60-70 times and will say it again, they are not my specialty. Sorry for what I said.... I should have done more research....
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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