The overweight thing again!

[Tagalong]

I have a thread on this at the iRV2.com forum and I'm getting some terrific feedback. But I wanted to run this by you folks. Many of you have already given me excellent information regarding the 3:55 vs the 4:10 and I really wanted to stay with the 3:55 but here is my delima. The 3:55 and A/T only give me 16K for a CGVWR leaving me with a 9,500 Max. trailer load. The Cardinal is 9,040 unloaded. The change to the 4:10 bumps the CGVWR from 16K to 19K and makes everything nice and legal!! It boils down to the legal issue. I'm hearing that you should NOT be over weight! I welcome your comments/advice on the legal aspect of changing the axle ratio. #ad


[This message has been edited by Tagalong (edited 01-07-2001). ]

 

[rickhans]

I posted the following response a month ago to a similar discussion and no one responded directly to my statements. Maybe this will help and hopefully someone will respond.


I have read several threads lately about this subject and asked for more info on this subject. From what I have determined the weight limits specified by DC are not legally binding nor accurate. I called the Texas Dept of Public Safety and asked what the legal limit is for my truck, 98. 5 4WD 5 sp diesel Club cab short bed. I wanted to know if I could legally tow a 13000 pound load on a trailer, a total weight of 16k pounds, depending on the trailer I would purchase. I was told that I could legally pull it with this truck providing: 1. )The GVW of the trailer itself equaled or exceeded the total weight of the trailer and the load. 2. )It had sufficient brakes and 3. ) The total weight including the truck did not exceed 26, 500 pounds, which would throw it into a commercial catagory, thus changing the requirements and requiring a commercial drivers license. Of course, the trailer hitch would have to be gooseneck or 5th wheel. The highway patrol officer said they don't look at the manufacturer's ratings when they stop a rig like this and weigh it, only at the trailer ratings and how it is equipped, although I would think that if the max tongue weight was exceeded causing the truck to sit down excessively it would be considered either overloaded or improper weight distribution.

Has anyone ever been stopped and weighed with a big load like this? Is there anyone reading this with legal knowledge such as a patrolman?

 

[Driftwood Ram]

Originally posted by Tagalong:
I have a thread on this at the iRV2.com forum and I'm getting some terrific feedback. But I wanted to run this by you folks. Many of you have already given me excellent information regarding the 3:55 vs the 4:10 and I really wanted to stay with the 3:55 but here is my delima. The 3:55 and A/T only give me 16K for a CGVWR leaving me with a 9,500 Max. trailer load. The Cardinal is 9,040 unloaded. The change to the 4:10 bumps the CGVWR from 16K to 19K and makes everything nice and legal!! It boils down to the legal issue. I'm hearing that you should NOT be over weight! I welcome your comments/advice on the legal aspect of changing the axle ratio. #ad


[This message has been edited by Tagalong (edited 01-07-2001). ]

If I was to buy new today it would be highoutput 6 speed instead of the automatic that I have. Just my opinion.



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96 2500 4x4 Driftwood auto Waren 4x boards pyro,boost,trans temp on a piller mag hytec trans

 

[JyRO]

Tagalong - I don't have heavy towing experience, but I, of course, wanted to throw my $. 02 in. Sounds like your legal with the weight you're talking about, unless you go and put a lot of stuff in the Cardinal. Which I assume is what will happen and will create the illegal situation. But I was just thinking that, if you did get stopped and weighed, how do they know that you're not running 4. 10's anyway (you can tell them you already swapped)? Is your truck 2WD or 4WD? If its a 2WD, the swap won't be so expensive, but I think I'd keep my money in my pocket anyway. I don't think you'll have anyone (or any legal body) ask, or want to know what rear diff. your truck is running. Maybe I'm just ignorant to what your trying to determine or to what other states enforce. Do you think its that critical?

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Y2K 2500 Cummins ETC/DEE, SLT+, 4X4, Quad, LB, Intense Blue Sport, 3. 54 LSD, rear aux. springs (camper special), sliding rear window, all options except cab clearance lights including agate leather, totally stock engine, silencer ring removed, "stealth," mod to run fogs with high beam. Since everybody else listed their toys, I will too.
1995 Kawasaki ZX6-R (For Sale)
1990 Toyota Celica
1983 Mazda RX-7 GSL (For sale)

 

[Tagalong]

Excellent responses Folks,
Thanks Rick, now I have a good handle on Texas weight requirements and a good idea on
how to evaluate my situation.
Tracy, no question, the 6 speed is what I should have. But seeing I only have 2k miles on this Ram it looks like I'll have it for sometime.
JyRO your suggestion makes sense but I thought the axle ratio is either on the door tag or in the VIN. FYI I have a 2WD and if I decide to change the rear end, it will be at NO COST to me because the dealer failed to "completely inform" me of the "Job Rating" on the Ram I ordered!
It's one thing to be close to or just over your combined weight limit when your packed. It's a whole new ball game when your over weight empty!
These are great, thanks again, and looking for more supporting information. I wonder if I'm the only one in this predicament #ad

 

[Fireman Dave]

I would think your set-up wouldn't have an affect on what you can tow legally. The ratings are for the drive train, not the laws. I'm sure I can legally tow as much as a truck with an ETC and 4. 10s or a V-10 and 3. 54s - both of which are rated by DC for higher towing capacity than my ETC, 3. 54, auto set-up. My lower rating by DC is only to save the transmission.

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2001 2500; SLT; 4x4; QC; LWB; Auto; 3. 54 LS; 265s; Camper; Tow; Sliding Rear Window; Travel Convenience Group; Cab Clearance Lamps; Forest Green

 

[Dane]

BCFAST said it well! Why buy a transmission that has known problems unless it's modified when the 6 speed was designed for towing/hauling heavy? A 6 speed in first gear with a 3. 55 will rip stumps out of the ground if you can get traction and cruise at 2000-2100 rpm @70 mph...

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[Tagalong]

Thanks Fireman and BCFast. BC I saw this very same post from you regarding another thread and I must say that about 5 min. after signing over my plates on this truck I found out the stick is the way to go #ad
Isn't hind site wonderful #ad
Oh well, next truck!!
Thanks

 

[NVR FNSH]

Get the 4. 10s and be 'legal' about the whole thing. Go to taller tires and add a GV/USG overdrive - you'll be much happier in the long run. The weigh stations may not look at your door tags for max GVWR or GCWR - all they really want is their money for your apportioned tags. They don't really care if you have a Toyota, Dodge or Freightliner - all they are looking at is the weight on the axle.

The people that will be looking at the door tag/manufacturers max GVWR/GCWR are the lawyers that will be going after you IF you are involved in an accident while over the manufacturers GVWR/GCWR.

Brian

 

[Deezul1]

The Highway Cops dont seem to care about truck ratings, I was stopped in my old Ford F250 4x4 and it was rated at 4000lbs which was a stupid rating anyway with a 460,4speed and 4. 10s, anyway it was for a safety check and it was truck enforcement patrol and my 5th wheel wieghed about 14,000lbs and all he wanted to do was check the hitch. Which also shows the rating is there so you dont crab at the MFG if you ruin the trans or something. I towed that trailer lots of miles with no trouble. And boy am I happy with my Cummins now after that rig. The truck was a great truck but gassers dont cut it when hauling wieght.

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96 SLT Laramie CC 5spd, 3. 54, no muff, no cat, 5"turn down tip
. Member NRA/USPSA

[This message has been edited by Deezul 1 (edited 01-08-2001). ]

 

[Runaway]

If and when you start having transmission problems, the dealer may want to know what you are pulling /hauling before warranty work will be done. I had to prove I was under my legal weight (which I was by 250 lbs) before they would do any warranty work. That part of the reason why the ETH/DEE is on order. Can't deal with band-aid fixes. Go with 4:10 with that automatic. Dealer tried telling me that when I bought the current RAM - should of listened.

 

[BV]

Devils advocate here. If you do decide to change the gears, you better get it in writing from the dealer that the GCWR was legally changed. I would also want to see a warranty statement of some sort that gives you the Okay for any DC dealership to honor the factory warranty. Call me paranoid

 

[Fireman Dave]

Okay, you're paranoid. #ad
Just kidding. Good advice, which got me thinking. How legally binding is the manufacturer's GVWR? I figure it's for drive train parts since a 2500 identical to mine with only different gears is rated higher for towing than mine. It's the same truck other than the rearend - which just affects it's acceleration. So from a safety standpoint, it should be the same, right? Is there a lawyer in the house?

 

[Tagalong]

BV Your right on with getting the gear change in writing. I made such a stink about being overweight at the Dealership I know that will come back to haunt me for a warranty repair.
Fireman Dave, The problem with some of the TDR respondants regarding the rating being for driveline parts only is a catch 22. In a court situation they call in the MFG engineers and go by what the vehicle(s) are rated for regardless of what transmission or axle ratio. The 16K rating for the A/T and 3:55 ratio is ludicrous. I ordered the camper special and the truck will support the combined weight. STOPPING is the issue but because the engineers set the rating our towing experience is meaningless when it comes to the law.
Yes, in reality I don't have much of a choice! It's imperitive to be "legal" these days... there are too many people out there looking for any reason to blame some else for their mistakes.
I really appreciate all of your advise, suggestions and concern... now all I have to do is start a thread to find out how the (stock)3500 Ram A/T, 4:10 folks drive. #ad

 

[LARGE CAR]

Rick, not a DOT officer but here is what Tx does check. They check what the truck registered GVW is and what the trailer registered GVW is, per your license plate registration. Add the 2 and thats your CGWR.
Example of my Dodge and 40'trailer:

Truck reg. @ 11,000 (factory rating)
trailer reg. @ 20,000 (factory rating)
CGWR is 31,000 lbs ( per factory rating)

You can also register the units for a higher GWR at the time you purchase the yearly tags.
My truck is reg. for now and its legal:

Truck reg @ 14,000
Trailer reg @ 24,000
CGWR is 38,000 LBS

Then you have to watch your axle weight, hitch weight and tire rating, this where they get most people. Know your hitch/axle/tire ratings and arrange your load not to exceed them. It is easy to be within your GCWR, but exceed your hitch/axle/tire ratings. Some states will weigh the rig as 1 complete unit OR by axle groups- they scale truck then trailer OR by individual axle, normally at their discretion.

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97 Dodge cab/chassis 1 ton,Allison at 545 4spd auto, Brown-Lipe 3spd auxillary, 3. 54's,11'flatbed , bd injectors, K&N filter,Cobra 29 CB, Wilson 2000, electcric & V/H brakes, 50 gal. aux tank, pulling 40'G/N flatbed trailer,
275,000 miles and counting

[This message has been edited by LARGE CAR (edited 01-08-2001). ]

 

[BCFAST]

Legal or not legal aside, if you plan on pulling anything bigger than a small lawnmower trailer, you NEED a manual!! Automatics are fine for getting groceries, or drag racing (with big $ in mods), but if you work your truck, at all, you gotta have a stick shift.

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, Green, #12 plate slid all the way forward, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, RS 9000's, PrimeLoc, Red Tops, TDR cloisonae grill badge!

 

[NVR FNSH]

I've asked this before with no satisfactory answer... .

How can a State or Fed DOT supercede the manufactures ratings?

Just because you buy the tags for a 14k truck or 24k trailer does not mean that your truck or trailer is safely capable of hauling/towing that amount of weight. The tag on the door post is still the same regardless of what the license plate says. The tag weights are for ANY two axle vehicle - Honda, Toyota, Dodge, Freightliner, OshKosh.

Tagalong is correct - it is the lawyer that will be coming after you and a jury is not going to side with the truck owner regarding safety & GVWR/GCWR - the manufacturer spends big dollars on engineers & testing. Who do think a jury is going to believe.

Brian

 

[Thomas]

FWIW...

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating shows up on the B-pillar on the Vehicle Safety Certification Label.

From my observations, Gross Combined Weight Ratings are not attached (permanently) to the vehicle. These ratings show up in sales brochures, on window stickers, and in owner's manuals.

 

[Frank J. Lloyd]

Originally posted by Brian Meadows:
I've asked this before with no satisfactory answer... .

How can a State or Fed DOT supercede the manufactures ratings?

Just because you buy the tags for a 14k truck or 24k trailer does not mean that your truck or trailer is safely capable of hauling/towing that amount of weight. The tag on the door post is still the same regardless of what the license plate says. The tag weights are for ANY two axle vehicle - Honda, Toyota, Dodge, Freightliner, OshKosh.

Tagalong is correct - it is the lawyer that will be coming after you and a jury is not going to side with the truck owner regarding safety & GVWR/GCWR - the manufacturer spends big dollars on engineers & testing. Who do think a jury is going to believe.

Brian

My GVW sticker is just a sticker with the weight written by hand in pen and stuck on at the truck equipment shop, who is to say that it can't be more. The D. O. T. F. M. C. S. A. regs say that with modifications to the main componets, suspension, brakes, frame, you can actually have a higher GVW, and that the factory one is not binding. The main issue is whether the vehicle can safely haul the load. By safely they mean complying with the DOT safety checklist, specifically tires of the right load range and brakes and coupling devices in good working order. Check out the regs at www.dot.gov


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2001 3500 4x4 H. O. 6 speed 4. 10, SLT, Cab and Chassis, 163" wheelbase western hauler stake bed 3" straight pipe, silencer ring AWOL, boost pyro gauge, K&N, Geno's one touch oil valve, Cobra 29,
ready to bomb
Big Red is ready to roll!

 

[LARGE CAR]

Brian if the lawyer scenario was a viable threat, then trucking companies would not allow 1 tons to run as they do. DOT would not allow 1 tons to run as they do. They both would be subject to the lawsuit for allowing the truck to be on the road, both parties would be in part responsible, in additon to the driver. With as many 1 ton hot shot trucks on the road as there are, do you honestly believe in your scenario? I know of 2 Hotshot drivers involved in wrecks, they were with in their registered weight. The wieght issue was pretty much null and void in the law suit, if it could have been used to win the case I garantee the lawyer would have tried it.
Like it or not thats how the GCWR is used on these trucks. IT is not what the manufactuer states. I get the idea you want hear that the manufacturer given rating, is the law. There is reason a I raised my GWR on the truck and trailer, but if I exceed the axle and tire ratings, then I would get fined if caught. I bet you were a good momma's boy!!