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The problem's not the cat. Now what?

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Skydiver may have something there, (broken cam), a guy at work had that happen and he went nuts finding it.

Also, start the thing in the dark and look for arcing.

I would look to see if the oil guy messed anything up, its a good guess cause this came on so sudden... . hate to scare you, but what if the motor was started with no oil... possible, that could cause the cam getting wrenched!

The dist is driven by the cam so timing will show if the belt has slipped.

Keep on it, you will find the problem! And man will it feel good... . can you say BEER!

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9535hundred

[This message has been edited by Statland (edited 04-06-2001). ]
 
I believe the answer to your problem is in your first post.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum8/HTML/001677.html

You originally indicated that there was an occassional miss.

Take the coil pack from cyclinders 1 and 3 to the auto parts store and see if they can test it for you. I think it is bad.

My assumption is that the Toyota uses two coil packs in it's distributorless ignition system. I might be wrong, but I think Toyota is one of the first to graduate to this stuff.

I wanted to know where you buy your parts so I could run out and buy stock in the company. The way you're going about this is pretty classic of backyard mechanics. Buy new stuff till you fix the problem. Parts guys love that.

Doc
 
JyRO, I didn't want to scare you either, but now that Mike mentions it, the Tercel engine I replaced was due to running 3½ qts. out of 4 low on oil. "Hey Bill what should I do, my oil light won't go off".
 
I don't think it's anything major, especially due to the fact it started happening immediately after you serviced it. I believe that year still uses a conventional cap/rotor ignition system. . has this been changed? (although since you didn't touch it, it's probably ok). My guess is maybe when removing and re-installing the wires they were damaged (although you did say they all sparked). Since it has gotten progressively worse, have you checked to see if the distributor is loose (could be slowly rotating, throwing the timing off). Before you start ripping this thing apart, do the basics as described above (compression test, set timing, check vacuum etc... ). It HAS to be something simple...
 
Let me ask you a question J. Did you get any fuel between the time you put the new plugs in it?Are your new plugs on your missing cylinders wet or black when you pull them(this could indicate a no fire situation or rich mixture). It couldn't hurt anything to pour a can of methanol to her,maybe you got a little(or a lot) of water. Is your choke open?Or maybe cold start circut stuck. Is it fuel injected or carbed?I never give up,sometimes my wife wants a divorce and my neighbors are ready to call the cops(strange launguage consisting of 99% vulgarity coming from garage). But I have always fingered it out.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop. 72000 as of 3/1/01,not even broke in yet. Old Dodge 126000 miles and running better than new.
 
Maaaa, what's up Doc? - This Toyota uses a traditional distributor. I don't know why you're trying to pi$$ me off, but to date I have spent a total of $6. 03 on one part, a pipe I intend to put in place of the catalyst. Go invest in the parts stores, seems to me you'd go broke since I've spent SO MUCH MONEY on SO MANY PARTS. I don't know why you're taking cheap shots at me while the rest of these guys are doing a good job on providing me great & helpful information. Taking cheap shots must be something in your personality, or is it a grudge about something (maybe you don't like me since I don't take delight in trying to destroy someone elses truck and then bragging about it)? Either way, I'd prefer you to keep your smarta$$ coments tucked away. You know, like mature adults do. You may have heard this before but... . if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all.

Illflem - I check the oil at every fuel stop (I always put gas in it for my wife when she drove it), and if it ever uses any, it never gets below the low mark. That doesn't mean it can't be a broke cam though.

Dmurdock - You may be right. I may have damaged a wire. Even though I was being as careful as I could, those wires have some miles on 'em. Maybe its possible that a wire and a spark plug can arc outside the combustion chamber, but not on the inside with a compressed fuel load. Hmmmm.

CF - I was on about 1/2 tank. Had the oil and filter changed. Went home changed the air filter and spark plugs, and took it for a few drives. That's when it started going bad. Later that night when I thought it might be bad gas (which theoretically it still could be), I drove it to the gas station (2. 5 miles) and put gas treatment in it and topped it off. I also asked the station attendant if anybody had complained about fuel quality lately and she said no (not that she would necessarily tell the truth, but she might have too). That drive to the gas station is when it would barely run and it smoked a little when I got there, and more when I got home. That's when I discovered the cherry red catalyst.

Everybody - Just as an experiment, I put all the new spark plugs back in. The old ones now are black as ..... well, you know. Indicating a rich mixture. When I originally pulled the old ones out, they were a real light gray. When I put the new ones in, it went like this. Upon crank it would run on two, then I'd hit the throttle a couple of times, and when rpms would come down (BTW-fuel injected), it would fire on all 4 cylinders (with no throttle input). Anytime the throttle was mashed it would sputter, unless it was just an itsy bitsy bit of throttle. A minute after the engine was running, and as it got warm, it slowly started missing on one cylinder... then two... . then it wouldn't run for crap. I'm guessing it changed due to the ignition timing change of the engine warming.

That's my last bit of play with this thing. My best guess is - It's something that I did to it accidently, like pulling some hose loose. But I can't find any loose. Or its the timing belt.

But the thing needs a timing belt (due to all the miles) and I just don't have enough time to tear it apart (thanks Toyota Technical Center), plus I get frustrated when things don't go real smooth (and when people take cheap shots at me, or at anybody really). So I think I'll load it up, take it to a place I know, let them do a code scan, change the timing belt, and see if they can figure it out.

Hope it don't cost too much, but I bet's its something simple and won't cost too much. If it does, I'll tell them to not fix it and I'll just go buy another car and slowly tear this thing apart and fix it myself.

- JyRO
 
JyRO, I didn't mean to imply that you haven't been checking the oil. When you said you had the oil changed the first thing that came to my mind was quickie lube. I've known two people who have driven away from those places with zero oil, they didn't get very far. I was just thinking they might have forgotten the oil on yours till they noticed the oil light on while moving it to the parking area.
 
illflem, you ain't lyin. . a friend of mine had a new saab she took to one of the quick lubes to get the oil changed (brand new, had about 4000miles on it). Apparently the drain plug for the transmission and engine are real close (front wheel drive)... well, the guy in the pit drained the oil out of the transmission and the guy up top added oil to the engine. She made it about 1/3 way to houston (from austin). Funny call she got from the dealership saying the engine had 4 quarts to much oil in it and the transmission was dry as a bone...
 
I am begining to lean towards the fuel system. I am thinking that either you had some crap in your system to begin with and the fuel treatment you poured to her knocked it loose. Or the cold start cuircut has stuck open. This would explain it running OK right after the new plugs and then going downhill so fast. The manual should have a section on the fuel system. You will have to check voltage and continuity,so get yourself a small multimeter. I know how these things can agreivate,just take a deep breath and send the kids and wife to the movie. check one thing at a time and move to the next. Try disconecting each fuel injector lead and see if that cylinder clears for a moment. Also check for voltage at each injector and TPS. If it is in cold start mode the time the injector does its thing will be longer. If all else fails take it to your local Toy dealer and ask em how much to hook it up to there computer for diagnoses.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop. 72000 as of 3/1/01,not even broke in yet. Old Dodge 126000 miles and running better than new.
 
Hey Illflem - I realize you weren't implying, I just wanted to state for the record that I'm anal about checking the oil in this car cause it's got so many miles on it. But about not getting oil or losing it from the quicky lube place. I thought about that just a day or two ago, and I started sweating until I checked the dipstick. But when they changed it, I was standing right over them, watching what they were doing, and I did watch them put the oil in the right place. Hehehehe. I was kind of afraid that they didn't get the fill plug in good and it poured out on the way home. But, the level is good and real clean. Good thought though.

Dmurdock - I hope that person got their transmission fix paid for by the quicky lube place. I used to know a guy who was a manager at one, and he always indicated if his crew screwed up (which they had occasionally) that he was liable. But all places are probably not that responsible.

CF - It's gotta be something like that! But I've been trying to get information out of the Toy dealer. These guys are completely unhelpful. The first thing they say is, "Well, bring'er on in and we'll check it out. " I would've had to buy a new cat with the dealer ($700) and that wouldn't have fixed it! I also asked them if it had a timing belt or chain. The guy said, "I don't know. " I said, "Can't you look it up?" So I hear him yell over to some other guy and ask, the other guy says he thinks its got a belt. Those guys are useless. So I'm taking it to a repair shop where the guy has been extremely helpful on the phone and has analyzed the situation for me and in my opinion has come up with the most reasonable analysis yet. Of course we've all covered it too. His is a vacuum hose pulled loose or cracked causing the computer to adjust the mix too rich. Of course I can't find any such hose. I'm toting the car up there today.

- JyRO
 
After reading your other post Jyro, you said that the plugs had all kinds of black cr@p on them correct???? This to me seems that there is either an overload of fuel going in or some other contaminante (sp). Haven't seeen where you checked the Choke on the carb or injection system (not sure which you have). If conventional carb, check to see that linkage from choke is not binding. It could be electrical causing it to be on and off.

This is way off coarse but also check the PCV valve. I had a 1989 GMC that just out of the blue started running like cr@p, and the hose from the PCV to the manifold and into the throttle body was completely plugged with carbon. The PCV was working (shake it and it ticks) but the line was plugged from about 3 inches back from the PCV to and into the Intake manifold. Other than these two I'm stumped!!!!

Good luck!!!

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!
 
My Guess would be in the spark. Either the coil or distributer. Sounds like the timing of the spark is off.
Good Luck and let us know what happens
Corey

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1998. 5 2500, 4x4, SB, Red Sport, Agate Interior, Quad Cab, O. H. Console, Auto, 4. 10 LSD, Trailer Tow and Camper Special Packages, Mopar Aluminum Nerf Bars, Spray In Bedliner, Pioneer/Jensen System, 255/85's, Bd Adjustable Preformance Box w/boost module, Boost Elbow, 4" Exhaust Split Into Two 3" w/5" cans, K+N Scotty Style, Exhaust Blanket, Bill K's Valve Body, Mopar Tow Hooks, Factory Fog Lights, Front Bumper Step, 55 watt Back-up Lights, Etc, Etc... .
 
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