The Wonder Weenie ROARS!!!

[sparks57]

Allright... the ol' girl is up and running. After a lot of dickering around with stuff, I got 'er running.



And the "Wonder Weenie" title came from Dave Miller (hdm48) because the pump I'm using right now its from a bread truck... (my truck's normal name is the "Green Weenie"... Wonder Bread, get it???).



I'm have noticed a couple of odd things, however:



•My engine has more of a "rattle" sound, like a 24v. I have no idea why... the timing is retarded from the position my pump used to be in. Cerberusiam: did you notice that? Could it just be that because the pump is not trashed like mine was, so it's snappier sounding? It's very noticeable.



•The pump won't budge to adjust timing. I can pull on it as hard as I can and it won't budge... it'll move about 1/8" and then when I let go it'll go right back to where is was. And yes... I did loosen the nuts! Luckily the timing is OK how it is...



•I have a strange rythmic ping in the engine now.



•I also have a strange irregular ping.



•My truck overheated, as thought the water pump quit (no heat at all) and then after it was shutdown, and restarted... it worked.



Overall, it runs OK, obviously not as good as it used to... but I'm just thankfull that it's running.



Thanks everyone for your help, and especially to Cerberusiam who was kind enough to loan me this pump in these dire times!!!

 

[Paychk]

You'll need to loosen the injector lines on the back of the pump to allow it to rotate when you adjust the timing.



PS Its good to hear you have the ol girl running again, congrats!

 

[Forrest Nearing]

glad to hear it's alive!!! when they're down, it's like having a sick child or something... you just want them up and running NOW!!



Forrest

 

[BCaldwell]

CB glad to hear you got her going the rattle might be the yeast! Bill

 

[sparks57]

Well, the pump is working really well now... I guess I just had to let it break in again maybe?



As for the pings... they're gone. The only thing I have now is what sounds like a much sharper, snappier pump... it's a lot louder than my old one. It makes the most noise at low RPM... or maybe it's because everything else is quieter.



Ok, I'm embarassed... I'll loosen the lines before I try to adjust the timing again!



I was told that the pump was gutless above 2100rpm... but it's working real well for me!!! I put the 3200rpm governer in it, and the ol' girl really gets going all the way through the RPM range.



Don't worry, cerberusiam, I'll take it easy on your pump!



Oh, and your suspisions of it being turned up were true, it had the exact same settings as my pump... and it was turned up pretty good.

 

[dpuckett]

Your rattling and pinging could be retarded timing- I've had them rattle WORSE and louder at a retarded time than advanced. DOtn ask how I know, I just do . I had to take a 3' cheater pipe and brace it on the frame to get the pump to move up on Mom's. Go from the frame rail to the AFC housing, and push up on it, and tighten the nut while you have the pressure on it. On second thought, since you havent learned where a 1/4 turn before broken or stripped is, you might leave that to us pros.



Glad you got it going again. The extra noise could be internal differences, too- i. e. the timing curve you mentioned.



Daniel

 

[paccool]

CB,

How do you know the timing is the same as before? I was told that if a different pump is installed, the original mark on the block is useless. Just because it may be the same setting to the mark as before doesn't mean it is the same. You need to get the timing set correctly to be sure.



Now, having said that, I can only go off what I was told so this may not be right!



My engine is a lot noisier now at 1. 7 than it was at 1. 15 where the shop had set it after the pump was rebuilt.

 

[sparks57]

Yeah, I'm not sure... I'll mess with the timing tomorrow. I REALLY don't want to remove the injector lines again... they're a real PITA.



According to the mark I made on this pump (that matched the one on the old pump) and the mark on the timing case, the timing is slightly retarded compaired to before.



Hopefully if I increase the timing to where it was, I'll be able to get rid of this annoying "ping" that seems to be comming from the engine...

 

[CGauthier]

Congrats on gettin the ole girl goin again man, when i think of my truck dyin I'd rather get attacked in my sleep by Freddie Kreuger.

 

[Greenleaf]

CB,

To advance AND hold it while attempting to tighten the mounting hardware can you move and hold the pump with a large pair of channel locking pliers? I have a bracket on top the pump which I grasp and span the distance over to the intake casting cover cap screw. By "pulling" the pump to-wards the cyl. head I can hold it there and tighten a nut quickly to "set it" in place.



On second thought, the bracket I speak of, it's holding my TPS... . you won't have a bracket here would you? It sure makes pump timing adjustment a snap (along with the SP44).



Maybe there is something up on top the pump you could "grab" w/the channel locks... ... ...



Happy to hear you got it running..... I'm picking my truck up at the paint/body shop tonight Oo.



-S

 

[CDegner]

CB,

You CANNOT use the old marks on you timing case or the marks on the old pump to go by. They mean nothing when you swap pumps. (it talks about that in the manual ... got one yet? )

 

[cerberusiam]

I figured it would work with a little playing around with timing and such. Glad you got it going and back on the road.



When it was on my truck the timing marks on the cover and the pump were lined up and that was probably retarded too much. The only way to know for sure is to time it by the lift to make sure where you are at then go from there.



If you did not hook up the KSB wire it is probably noisier because the timing is full advanced all the time. If you did hook the wire up it is probably retarding when it shouldn't. From what I found out the KSB on this pump works opposite of what the OEM one does. I wired a switch in to retard timing after the engine was warmed and thats when I ran into rpm problems which leads me to believe it was not timed correctly from the start.



Yes, both that pump and the rebuilt were much noisier at idle than the old pump. I think it is due to the fact the springs and pressures are all back to being where they should.



The one thing you need to watch is the rattle or ping (?) does not get too bad as you accelerate. What you are hearing is the pressure spike on combustion from advanced timing. It is rough on head gaskets and probably slightly detrimental to cast pistons.

 

[JLEONARD]

Yes, both that pump and the rebuilt were much noisier at idle than the old pump. I think it is due to the fact the springs and pressures are all back to being where they should.

That makes sense to me... I had the pump on my old marine Perkins rebuilt... engine was much snappier and rattlier after the rebuild.



Jay

 

[sparks57]

Hmm... so possibly the timing is too advanced? That's odd...



Anyways, the ping does not get louder during acceleration, it only makes noticeable noise when the engine is idling. I do notice that my truck is much snappier sounding...



So maybe the timing is too far advanced? That's goofy because the timing (according to the stud in the timing chanel on the pump) is about 2/3 of the way up, which means I can't retard it much more...



And I did disconnect the KSB. Maybe I'll try to hook it up and see what happens.



Thanks everyone!

 

[cerberusiam]

according to the stud in the timing chanel on the pump) is about 2/3 of the way up, which means I can't retard it much more...

Oh you can retard it a lot with a third of the distance in the notch. A 1/8 '' movement can be as much as 6 or 7 degrees and that will have a large effect on noise and how it revs.



With the KSB disconnected you are getting full internal advance plus initial. Try powering up the KSB and se what you get for noise and performance. Remember, the internal timing curve may not be appropriate for the CPL on your engine so you may have to make some concessions in places to get things to work correctly. The fact you have it runnign and it runs well tells me it will probably work fine one all the parameters are known.



Let us know what is going on as you are the guinea pig of the week.

 

[sparks57]

I plugged the KSB back in... the engine doesn't sound any different... seems like it didn't do anything at all???



Anyways, the truck is running GREAT. I know it has the wrong CPL, but this pump runs just like mine used to, but with a little more top end... but I did install the governer spring.



The top end is good, but if this small improvement is all I would get out of a correct pump, I'd be kinda dissapointed.



BUT you said that it doesn't run well on the top end, so I guess when I get a new pump the governer spring should really be a kick in the pants! :-laf



Thanks again cerberusiam, you're one in a million!!!!



One thing that I'm going to check now is if the guide pin is treveling correctly on this pump... it feals like it... but I'm gonna check my fuel pin for it. My old pump would not extend into the deepest part of my Old Smoky pin.

 

[cerberusiam]

Check me here, the OEM KSB is powered when cold and off when warm(get out the test light). This one is pupposed to be off when cold powered when warm. Just plugging it in will have no effect if the engine temp is above 60 degrees. You need to power it from an alternate 12v source to see if there is a difference.



I think you are expecting too much from a rebuilt pump as far as SOP feel is concerned. What you will find is it will take less throttle and less fuel to get to the same point and that is a subjective condition that will take time to see. Since you are starting from an unknown point and shooting in the dark it may take a bit to find the right combo. If you change nothing else a rebuilt pump will probably not show any gains but start adding parts and pieces and it will definitely show up in the results. I am not pushing my new pump and turbo anywhere near as hard as the old setup and I can still tear chunks of rubber off the tires. It just makes a lot less smoke and noise doing it.



If it retards too much at the top end you will definitely now it from the white smoke cloud and popping under the hood. You may have hit the advance needed to make things perk right off the bat.

 

[sparks57]

I'm not expecting anything!



As a matter of fact, I didn't fool with any of the screws, I left them as they were... the only things I did to the pump was swap in my fuel pin and put the governer spring in.



This thing runs WAY better than my old pump... I just needed a day or so to get used to it!



I've been tinkering with the KSB a little more and it's definately wierd... I might wire in a temporary switch as suggested... but it depends on how quickly I can get a new pump.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Just be careful with the KSB... as the engine RPM climbs you can develope problems with the fuel solenoid if KSB is used at those higher RPM levels... been there, done that. .



pb.

 

[cerberusiam]

Ummm, I don't remember for sure but I may have swapped screws around and if you didn't change the setting on the full power it may have been really cranked.



I apologize then, I understood you to say it didn't run a whole lot better than your old one. Disregard my preaching on the evils of expectations.



The KSB definitely has some weird operations on that pump. I never did figure it out all the way. I know it is opposite of the OEM but that aside it doesn't react the same way.



Ok PB, sounds like you did 'spermentin. Wanna share?