Thinking about replacing BD with Six Pack

[jsimpson]

I know; I know, Banks stuff is over-priced! But I can get a Banks as cheaply as anything else. Besides, it has software that defuels when the transmission or TCslips 2%, and built in defueling at overtemp. I was gonna switch to the TST, but I already can slip the transmission :-laf with my Torque Dog, so I think the Banks will be cheap insurance.

 

[catoiler]

Might want to read up on this before you make up your mind!http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115140

 

[macdaddy]

jsimpson Look up "my banks nightmare" on this website it will be worth your time. Banks software does no interface well with the dodge ECM and they tap the pump wire on their higher output settings. Go with Edge products or equal when deciding on a fuel box. Also go with the Auto Meter brand gauges from Geno's. I live here in So Cal where Banks thrives and there are many nightmare stories to go with the one I mentioned above, Banks has lost all their quality control once they had become as big as they are now, they tend to cater to the "one stop shoper no brainer" people that want a quick in/out to turning up their Dodges but with serious consequences.

Now on a positive note I will give banks credit where credit is due when it comes to their Exhaust systems I installed their 4" turbo back system on my 99 and it went right on sounded really good (throaty) and with out an ounce of drone.



05 3500 4X4 Laramie DRW 325/610 6 spd 4:10'snew 10/30/04

Gone 99 3500 4X4 SLT DRW ATS trans with TC VB comander,EDge EZ, 275"s, Auto Meter. AFE,Banks 4" exhaust and 53 block (thats why shes gone ).

 

[DBurkhard]

they tap the pump wire on their higher output settings.

Pump wire on a 3rd gen???????

 

[Dukenrock]

I installed a Banks on my 2001 which did have a wire that tapped into the pump wire, ths finding out later voided my warranty. Dodge was hell bent on not warrantying my truck and Banks said tuff s*@t. Banks said get an attorney. I reminded banks that when I bought the kit they specifically stated it doesn't void a warranty. Once again, tuff. I now have a 3rd gen dually, and I installed the Banks. I put it on myself (8 hours) but it was pretty easy. I went with Banks because the performance is incredible. My dually feels like a drag car! The nice thing is no Tap into the wire. I'm sure if I have any issues with the truck Dodge will void my warranty again.

 

[driverno8]

Your warranty is shot. PERIOD. I had to pay for my motor out of my own pocket. I wrote the "my banks nightmare". It's not cheap insurance. None of their fail systems worked. That friken place could care less about you once you've paid for it. Don't waste your money. There's a guy over at DTW that's selling his for $300 bucks because his edge gave him more power. He took his Banks crap off after a month.

 

[DLeno]

I've been studying and testing all the fueling boxes I can, and conclude that you can use any of them irresponsibly. adding power in an unbalanced way, without considering other weak links in the system, is no different with Banks than with any other brand. sure its more profit from them, but the air system upgrades are more than just money makers. Adding fuel is easy; supporting it with enough air is another story. I personally think temps get higher than people think, and we tend to have a false sense of security when a box is EGT aware. The stock turbocharger is just NOT capable of supporting 90 horsepower at the rear wheels without introducting a reliability issue, in my opinion.

 

[Dukenrock]

Has anyone ever faxed over all of these posts for issues like this just so they understand what's going on. Or is there a member who works for Banks monitoring these? Or, do they even care. maybe we could fax the posts to their competitiors so they can advertise!

 

[DLeno]

Most of the mfgs see this stuff on the site. many are members. But really, people, complaints get posted on websites, and anytime someone gets either unlucky or irresponsible with a power upgrade, the forums are usually the first to hear about it. It can happen with Banks, it can happen with any of the fueling boxes. What I read here and in other places doesn't tell me a thing about Banks. it tells me that someone is either unlucky or irresponsible. or both. If there is one thing that TDR members have no excuse for, its this: you are your own warranty station. if you play you pay, and any number of similar expressions that pervade the site and the physical magazine.



Perhaps we can fault some of the manfacturers for creating a false sense of security about warranty claims. you gotta learn how to interpret and read past the glitter. Those disclaimers that come in the box are for real. I don't mean to take away from anyones personal experience, believe me. Its just that if you've read more than a weeks worth of posts here, you have to know.



Behind the glitter is a few realities:



1. yea magnasson/morse or whatever it is warranty act. its real, and says that the truck mfg has to prove that an after market product caused the problem. sounds good in fine print but the reality is that they can and will deny warranty coverage anytime they jolly well want to, and you are faced with the uphill legal battle to prove your case. the warranty gods are out to protect the mother ship, not you.



2. yea, a box mfg can "stand behind" their product. But they can deny support by simply noting that the engine could have failed without influence from the box, and that the box was not at fault.



For the most part all of the mfgs I've worked with are trying to produce a product that works, and most try to educate buyers regarding responsibillities. some more than others of course. I bet if truth were known, the engine failure rate with Banks boxes installed is no more than with any other aggressive pressure box installed. There are a lot of horsepower enthusiasts out there with much more aggresive boxes and their trucks are going strong.



there are a few ways to mitigate risk:



1. just because you throw on an EGT gauge doesn't mean everything is cool. understand what they read, what sources of error are, etc. Some of the EGTs reported on the new stock trucks make my eyes pop out and I wonder why anyone would add more fuel without really understanding the whole system better.



2. Before you throw away a new truck warranty, consider waiting 20,000 miles or more for it to break in before you add fuel. The sooner you add power, the more confusing it will be to determine if the cause of failure is the box or the truck. If there is a mechanical vulnerability in the engine, you'll only mask it with an upgrade and give DC the right to back away from it. Depending on a number of things, note that people have reported fuel economy improvements as late at 30,000-50,000 miles. dern engine is just barely broke in at that point if you're not towing. especially for the first few thousand miles, internal (instantaneous localized) engine temps are high due to wear-in.



BTW, Banks timing cannot differentiate between cylinder banks or control one differently than the other. Timing advance is accomplished at the crank and cam sensor inputs to the ECM and the ECM is time-fooled before any of the downstream injection hardware is involved. The ECM and bosch injection system is what fires the injectors and has hardware capable of differentiating between the two cylinder banks.

 

[BRayls]

well said Doug.

 

[DRiddel]

I would think about getting Bully Dogs new Downloader. I have heard it can make a lot more than advertised. Like 150++ hp in testing on different mod. trucks. Something to think about.

 

[JPM]

I had my old 2001 Banks equipped ford doing double burnout's(375/50/20's!) across the local Dodge dealer's parking lot! With a salesman friend of mine egging me on! I released that this was too much fun and something was going to go! Like transmissions ,connecting rods etc. So when I found my the truck I have now I thought trying to resist another trip down into the "bomb" hole was a good idea , I was watching the EGT gauge like the devil , driving like like one too! FYI pulling trailers makes it worse! You want to GO!!!!! NOW!!!! ... ... ... be stock ,be happy

 

[jsimpson]

Given the very high temps that the stock engine produces, wouldn't a bigger turbo housing be good insurance whether or not a box is added?