Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) thinking of trading a '04.5 for a '96

[CStansbury]

Hey all,

I just started a new business and really can't swing the $500+ payment every month. I found some 12v trucks local and am thinking about trading mine or selling it outright to buy a 12v. Have some of you guys made the switch? What are some of the major advantages, drawbacks, etc... that you all have found in making the switch? It does seem like I am going to have a hard time finding a truck with miles below 100k, but since some of you guys are 200k plus that doesn't seem to be an issue. The one that is my favorite truck right now is a 1996 4x4 2500 ext. cab auto with 187k on the ticker. It is real clean, has newer 35" BFGs on it, mostly highway miles, nice paint/body, and stock as far as I can tell. I know a biggie to check on is the KDP. What else should I be aware of? Thanks for any help!

Chris

 

[dtygart]

Welcome back to 12v's. Mechanical engine... ECM does not run any fuel so you can make moderate improvements to performance or go ahead and really BOMB it. Look around the sites for what others have done to improve intake and exhaust. Definately kdp. Also some steering problems.

david

 

[az]

The one thing I dont miss is hitting my head on the A pillar, the newer truck is so much harder to get into then the older 2nd gen, for me at least.



Also I am pleased that I am now at almost 18 mpg combined where the 04 was at best 13 mpg.



In my case it was not really a choice as my 04 was stolen but like you I decided not to renew as the payments were not really welcome.

 

[EBottema]

Go with the 12v and dont look back. Very easy truck, only problems you really have are steering and the easy KDP fix.

 

[wcjp]

Try looking up Vaughn McKenzie. He had a 24v, traded for an 03' before tiring of the payments and now has a 12v. He's had some pump issues but the truck has considerable mileage.



When I had my 96' 12v the DSS (darin's steering stabilizer) cured most of my steering problems. I also had to replace the fuel supply/return lines and the soft line from the fuel preheater to liftpump. When replacing the fuel lines it's a great time to replace the starter contacts with LarryB replacements. I've helped a few trucks with starter contact issues. It seems 150k miles & up they'll need replacing. None of the things I've stated are difficult or expensive. I'd still have my 96' but loading my daughter into the back was a pain for me and near impossible for the wife. If the truck was a 98' I'd probably still have it.

 

[CStansbury]

Thanks guys. I think the biggest differences for me will be either the 5spd or the auto box, the decrease in stock power, and the difference in braking.



The transmission I can get used to. I drove some 5spd trucks before deciding on my '04. 5. They were all pretty dogged out and I couldn't find any nicer ones at the time. That and all the rebates/good interest rates led me to the new one. I never drove an auto 12v. How's the shifting when they are in good shape? The only auto truck I ever owned was a Chevy with a turbo-hydro 400.



The power I understand won't be a big deal once I start BOMBing, which is inevitable . The 600 is very snappy and spools up pretty quick. Is a 12v comparable once you put on the 3000 GSK, fuel plate, and injectors? I do love the 12v clatter and that is one of the things I missed most on my 600 is that it was so darn quiet. Some people didn't even know it was a diesel.



Now what about the braking. Going from 13"+ discs front and rear to 12. 5" discs/13" drums will be a bit of a change. I remember the brakes on the ones I test drove were more like the hydroboost brakes on my diesel Blazer. Not nearly as snappy, but they got the job done. Is there a rear disc retro kit available?



wcjp, thanks for overhaul tips. I'll have to look for Vaughn and pick his brain sone.

 

[RJPotts]

I vote go with the 12 valver and never look back too. All of my friends with 3rd gen trucks and 24 valves are switching to 12v trucks. They can't be beat and they are almost indestructable.

If you want to BOMB an auto truck, the transmission will eventually fail if its stock. There is no way around it. The manual will take a little more, but not much before the clutch slips. I'm about to put roughly $5000 into a full Suncoast for my '96. I have a 6-spd in my 2002 and other than pulling trailers (which it does magnificently) I don't like driving it for more than a day (read as: I'm lazy). But that has a lot to do with where and how I drive.

Enough typing... get a 12 valve.

-R. J.

 

[wcjp]

My 12v 5spd with modified stock plate and 3kGSK had more power than my stock 06'. Never did get around to doing injectors. I stopped adding power when it was adequate to pull the Jeep over the pass with only minor egt issues.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yeah like Bill said I did the switch and in some ways regret it, but in a lot of ways I like the '96. It has more character if you ask me. I get more compliments on it than I ever did with my '03 or '01.



I've had some problems with it and have done quite a bit of maintenance items: new shocks, clutch, transmission (OK some of that was upgrading). Replaced inj. pump, lift pump, alternator, computer, head gasket, and installed the DSS. The truck steers very well, it's pretty tight (not like new but feels about like a 80-100k mile truck) and has decent power & mileage. The motor should have some miles left since the cylinders showed little wear when I pulled the head at 352k.



Like I mentioned in the PM I'd look for one with lower miles and known maintenance history and you should be good.



I do miss the 6-speed, sure is hard enjoying a 5sp after having 2 six-shooters. If I keep this long term I'd like to do a transmission swap.



Vaughn

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I decided a paid for truck could do me just fine.



Things I really miss: The four doors, the improved steering, the six speed:3. 73 combo (the best hwy cruiser of the lot - by far), the 19+ mpg. , the longer rear springs=sweet ride on washboard roads, and the quiet purr.



Things I don't miss: The PAYMENTS, the chinsy thin sheet metal and plastic, the butt ugly styling outside, the butt ugly styling inside (98-02 my favorite), the premature failure of u-joints, the impending premature failure of ball joints, all that glass, and the quiet purr.



Things I like about the 97 (some redundancy): The exterior styling, the interior styling, the seating and how you look out over the hood, the mechanical systems I can freely wrench on to my hearts content, the P7100, and the rattling 12v. Plus no PAYMENTS so I can fix and mod the 97 and theoretically spend my money wisely.



Things I dislike about the 97: Really miss the quad or four doors vs. the club cab, the steering trackbar was a new OEM when I bought it - but I know wandering will be soon enough, however I plan on the 3gen trackbar and bracket setup in the spring, the five speed really pukes compared to the sixers, KDP (fixed), the fuel sending unit (fixed), the fuel shutdown selonoid (fixed), the starter (fixed), the 4. 10s (I have the 3. 55s to swap soon).



Would I do it again - yes. However, I think I would patiently look for a quad cab. This truck was available and I could walk away with no payments. Dealers wanted 3K to 4K more for a 98 quad 12v when I started looking.

 

[Boomer II]

My only complaint with my 97 was 5th gear, or the lack there of. I did the Quad 6 speed swap and have never looked back.

 

[CStansbury]

I have decided to try and sell my truck outright after the first of the year. I have one more tow to do before I can be truckless for a while. I am going to drive my old diesel Blazer for a while and enjoy being without payment for a month of so. I'll take my time and look for a '97 or '98 ext. cab 5-spd. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a well cared for ex-TDR truck. If not, I'll just have to do a real close inspection and test drive on any prospects.



At least since I am not in WV any more, I won't have to worry about a nasty salt-fed rust monster eating my sheetmetal. I am looking forward to that wonderful 12v clatter and no engine management software to deal with.



So it looks like tabbing the KDP, installing a DSS, and putting on the new design 5th gear nut should take care of the major issues. Then, I can start dropping a few BOMBs on it

 

[Boomer II]

Check with Quad 4X4 on the 5th gear fix, I spit three of those nuts off. They have the best fix that I came across for the 5th gear problem.

 

[Runaway Ron]

Oo. I have now owned 4 second generation Turbo diesels all 4x4's. They are all still in my family. I think they are the greatest truck on the road today!!

The first one I bought for my wife in 97 was a 95 reg. cab with 270,000 miles (now 370,000). The second one was I bought for myself in 2003 was a 94 with 300,000 miles on it. 2 years later a friend of mine had a sweet 95 with only 160 thousand miles on it (just a baby, now has 200,000) which I bought and sold mine to my son.



Last summer we bought a 36 foot toy hauler and pulled it a few times with my wifes 95 which is stock. It pulled it fine but scared the crap out of my wife when she tried to drive it down a grade when I had not set my brake controller properly. We thought about upgrading the power, getting an exhaust brake, and many other ideas. We already had put air bags on it.



We decided that we needed a dually and a quad cab to haul extra people. We got caught up in the interest rate and incentive rage and spent a lot of time looking at new trucks (both Dodge and Chevy). We liked the new trucks but the price was still a lot when all was said and done. I was minutes away from buying an 03-05 a few times. My wife and I are so glad we didn't!!!!



My wife found a real great truck! It's a 97 extended 4x4 dually 5 speed that has been bombed, has 4" exhaust all the way back, an exhaust brake, pillar gauges, power vision mirrors, custom wheels, fancy air cleaner, Stull running boards and had very good care (one owner) with only 150,00 miles on it. This is a fantastic truck and I have to be real careful not to speed it is so powerful and quick. I have heard guys say that after they bombed they get better milage. Its true this one gets the best milage. I just feel sorry for the poor guy who sold it to us he was very sad to let it go his wife told us. They had also deliberated a long time before going for the new incentives.



I am sold on these trucks if you could not tell. The old 94 with 330 miles on it now runs great, I would not be afraid to haul a trailer across the states with it. My daughter now owns the origonal 95 and loves it.



Ron and Robin Oo.

 

[CStansbury]

Great post Ron and Robin! That '97 of yours was a great find. I have been thinking about going up to a 3500 dually while I was at it. I am going to buying a 20' goose-neck equipment trailer to haul my Unimog eventually. I am sure a 2500 LB would haul the weight just fine, but the extra stability of the dually would be handy in those twisty mountain roads on the way to the off-road park.



Well I am going to keep doing my 12v homework and will keep you guys posted on any sales and purchases. Thanks all!

 

[turboost]

I owned an 04. 5 before my 98 and I think that the 04. 5 was better hands down in every department. It braked tons better handled like a sports car compared to my 98 and I liked the interior better and it seemed of better quality. I can't compare the engines performance too much b/c I did different things to each and they both were/are fun but the 12v gives the feeling of "Raw" power as its louder and smokes more.



That being said I like the lower payments and thats keeps me from looking at anymore new ones.

 

[rmcnamee]

I had a 2004, sold it about 2 months ago and bought a '97 2500 Reg. Cab with 82K miles and don't regret it at all. Yes, the '04 accelerated, handled, steered, braked, etc. better than the '97, but the '97 owes me NOTHING!! This is because I was able to sell the '04 and use the equity, plus some spare cash, and buy the '97 outright. Now instead of driving a truck that cost me $1,000 ($500 payment, $400 in fuel & $100 in insurance) a month to drive, I have a truck that cost me about half of that easily (just fuel and insurance). Now, while its in great mechanical and cosmetic condition, the '97 has not been trouble free, but what do you expect from an 8 year old truck. To date I've replaced the steering box, upper/lower ball joints, added the 3rd Gen trackbar and upgraded the front springs to the 47/46 combo. However, it wasn't too much money, since I get OEM dealer parts at a discount and do the work at my buddy's repair shop.



If you're sick of making the payment, willing to spend a little money to replace some worn out parts and deal with a decrease in stock power, then a 12-valve truck may be your answer.



Good luck!

Ryan