Thinking of upgrading to 03-04, long time 12 valve owner could use some help please.

[Coalsmoke]

Hi guys, my 95, as much as I love dearly, is having lots of paint and rust issues and I'm just not sure about putting more money into it than what its worth. I've been thinking on and off for the last year about upgrading to a 03-04, but now I'm really putting the gears to it as I'm getting out of the welding business and the new truck will see an easier life. I know my 12 Valve like the back of my hand, but I really don't know a lot about these third gen trucks and would appreciate any input.



Here is what I think I'm looking for / relevant info:

-2003-2004: want to get into a HPCR and stay away from the VP-44 fuel pumps,

- 2500 or 3500 single rear wheel

- 4x4

- 6 speed

- quad cab (hopefully with long box if it works out that way)

- I plan to keep this truck for a long time.



Other than this I'm flying blind. I spent the afternoon researching about 3rd gens, but didn't come up with to much concrete info other than complaints still about fuel systems, which surprised me. I thought the HPCR was supposed to have taken care of that?



What should I know ahead of time before buying?

and,

what should I be prepared to address once I buy to help prevent future issues? (For example, on the 12 valvers there's the KDP, on the 98. 5-02 it needs an updated lift pump, etc. what should I be considering doing for the 03-04, if anything?)



Thanks for the help, its very much appreciated

 

[JJPage]

It is just the fuel filter canister mounted lift pump that is weak, there are several different aftermarket systems available. I went with Glacier Diesel Power's kit.



Other than that I have had no issues, until I started mods.



03/04s, no cat, less emmisions, check the valve cover, drivers side to see if it a SO 250hp model or a HO 305hp, 555tq.



I know you will be happy with your choice of year, 04. 5 had several changes over the 03/04 models, not all of them good, imo.

 

[JHenry]

I bought a new '03 Dodge Cummins with 6 speed and put 72k on it. I sold that truck to my son and bought a new '06 with 6 speed. Both trucks are straight piped, have AFE Stage II air filters. I put a Banks Technicooler and Dyna Trac hubs and a Jake Brake on the '06. I have been very happy with both trucks. I recently bought a '98 12v automatic with 127k to use as a plow truck. You will be pleased with your new one. Try to keep the '95. Be sure you get the HO engine. <a href=http://OO. imageevent.com/jerryinw500/jerryinw500firstalbum/websize/IMG_0377. JPG>click</a>

 

[JHenry]

I bought my first diesel, a 2003 Ram with a 6 speed, and put 72k on it before selling to my son. I then bought a 2006 with 6 speed. I have 52k on this truck. I have added AFE stage II filters and straight piped both trucks. I installed a Banks Technicooler and Dyna Trac Hubs and a Jake Brake on the '06. I have been extremely happy with both trucks. Recently bought a '98 12v with 127k to use as a plow truck. You will like the newer one, I'm sure. Try to keep the '95 if you can.

 

[AABEN]

I have a 03 jest got home. Was gone for 109 days on the road. I am a snow bird!! I was pulling a 38 foot fith wheel that was loaded 15,000 Lb. had a 100 gal. fuel tank plus 40 gal. plus tool box 17,120 lb. in all got 11. 9 miles per gal. some of the miles was at 70-75 miles per hr. on inter states. I am happy with that. Had some head wind . the 03 is a HP

 

[RMalone]

Issues seems to be injectors, a lot of guys go to 2-mic filtration. Some trucks seem to chew on u-joints also. Oh yeah the head lamps suck.

 

[CToney]

I went from a 12v straight to a CR. Fix the lift pump on them. I went with FASS. Injectors are obviously a bit of a problem. I am getting fuel in my oil. Most likely a cracked injector body. Most likely from a pressure box (chip). The trucks are better but have their quirks. Like electronicly controlled viscous fan clutch. I have that trouble too. Good luck finding a long box six speed. I had trouble finding mine and I guess now I should have left it there with the trouble I'm having. Check the oil level or better yet send a sample away for analysis before you buy. If there is fuel no go. Cycle the key on and off three times to reveal the DTC codes. Fan clutch is P4083 I believe. There is a list of codes to check if you do a search. To check engine hours turn key on and hold the odometer reset button down. Don't let this discourage you just take some precautions so you don't end up with an expensive bill like I am sure to have.

 

[Coalsmoke]

I just wanted to say thanks you guys for the info so far and for helping this old-school 12v'er get on the new school bus. I found a code list for 2003 HERE and at the moment I'm pouring through my stack of TDR mags from 03 on up. I must admit though, I'm not sure I can interpret half the codes on there, like Pedal validation Switch2 Low / High :-laf Oh well, it will give me a good starting point to see if there's issues with the truck.

So, I should count on putting in FASS (or similar) system to replace the stock filter location lift pump and also a better fuel filter, right? Would a fuel pressure gauge also be recommended then, or will the FASS make that redundant. The truck will remain at stock power levels for quite some time.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe I read that starting in 04. 5, they started doing the triple injection events. Is this correct? How do I make sure that when I look at an 04, I know its not an 04. 5?

Other than 55 more HP, what else comes with the H. O. models? I believe I read somewhere something about additional piston cooling? Also, I tried to find a picture of the driver's side of a H. O. 03 - 04 truck, but couldn't. What is it I'm looking for that will tell me that its an H. O. ?

I see what you mean about being hard to find a long box 6 spd, its seems 90% of them are autos. A short box would be ok too, just maybe not quite as nice for toying the toy-hauler and RV behind, but it would be a tighter package. Thank you for telling me how to find engine hours and the trouble codes.

Sorry guys for writing a book here, I appreciate the time taken to answer my questions. Talk about a 3rd gen newbie huh.

 

[CumminsBu]

In 2004 truck with the build date after 1 Jan have the three injection event 325hp/ 600tq engine with a Cat. The engine sticker on the driver side of the valve cover also will tell you what engine is under the hood. All NV 5600 6 speeds are behind the 2003, 2004 305hp/ 555tq trucks which is the HO engine.

Also in the glove box is a sticker with powertrain built info, which can tell you the axle info like gear ratios and limited slip.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Black Pearl, thanks for the pictures and info. I saw an 04 today but it was 325hp, so that must be the 04. 5 then. When you say all 6 speeds are behind the HO trucks, do the regular standard output trucks still have a 5 speed or were they just autos?

 

[CToney]

5sp were the SO trucks. The '03 & '04 are lower stock hp and have less hp potential when upgraded ie same programmer on newer truck will give more power. The '04. 5 and newer trucks had cat, electronic wastegate, bigger compressor on the turbo and full 4" exhaust. If you are not afraid to come to Saskatchewan check out Diamond D holdings. They have a good selection of used Diesels. I had to go south to Billings, MT to find my long box six speed. Check out consignall. ca.

 

[CumminsBu]

Black Pearl, thanks for the pictures and info. I saw an 04 today but it was 325hp, so that must be the 04. 5 then. When you say all 6 speeds are behind the HO trucks, do the regular standard output trucks still have a 5 speed or were they just autos?

Yes all 6 speeds have HOs. SO's had 5 speeds and the 47re or the 48re (the lucky ones). HO's with the autos got the 48re. There are also two SO's a Cali 235hp and the standard 49 State 250hp/ 4?0tq SO, which is the best fuel mileage CR.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks CToney, I'll check there.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me Black Pearl.

It's absolutely mind boggling just how many autos there are up here, it seems that about 95% of them are all autos.

 

[BHolm]

I owned four 3rd gen autos before my current G56 truck. They are a pretty darn good rig with the auto. I used both of my '03 HO auto trucks for commercial, day in and out heavy towing, never regretted it. I think the 3. 73 auto combo gives you the tallest OD combo and generally the best fuel economy. My '03 QC SB 4x4 would do 23 mpg highway empty everyday, and even pulling a car on an open trailer it was close to 15-16mpg.



With the price of deisel I would definately go with a 305hp truck, it is plenty of power stock. I really like my six speed but would never say anything bad about the 48re, they served me very well over hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks BHolm, happy trucking.



Some times a guy has just got to shift gears, you should see me in a auto truck, its like a fish out of water. :-laf

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I'm a big time 12v guy, but I had an '03 5sp very briefly and now have an early '04 HO 6sp and am loving it



the 12v's will always reign supreme for reliability, power per dollar, etc.



but the 3rd gen power/drivability is awesome, and the interior is lightyears nicer

 

[rbattelle]

I missed this thread the first time around.

I'm getting out of the welding business

What!? What in the world possessed you to make this decision!? Obviously you're not thinking clearly. Is now really the best time to make a major truck decision?

So, I should count on putting in FASS (or similar) system to replace the stock filter location lift pump and also a better fuel filter, right? Would a fuel pressure gauge also be recommended then, or will the FASS make that redundant. The truck will remain at stock power levels for quite some time.

If the truck still has the lift pump mounted to the back of the fuel filter canister, you'll need to plan on changing that out with something else. I also think that a fuel pressure gauge is a good idea, even if the truck has already been retrofitted with an in-tank pump. It's just good cheap insurance.

Many of us also run supplemental filtration, in the hope of staving off injector problems. No one really knows how effective it is, but it makes us feel better.

the 12v's will always reign supreme for reliability, power per dollar, etc.

I've never been in a 12v, but I agree with Forrest on this. You can't beat a 12v engine for durability and bulletproof-ness. If I were in your situation, I probably wouldn't move to a HPCR truck. Just my personal opinion, but I figure I can spend a lot of time and effort fixing rust and paint before buying a new truck becomes a good choice. But my priority is usually on mechanical reliability rather than aesthetics.

As mentioned, the biggest problem area is injectors on the HPCR engines.

Aside from that, we see lots of problems with bad universal joints and bad carrier bearings causing vibrations.

Fan clutches also seemed to be a problem on some 2003-2004 trucks.

Very common to have a blend door break (even up through 2006, I think), so you'll want to check the HVAC system to see that it blows air from each vent as it's selected.

Water pumps seem to go out between 75k and 100k, possibly due to sand in the block.

Very early 2003 and 2004 trucks had vibration issues caused (apparently) by the power steering hose that runs to the hydroboost unit. There was a TSB that replaced the hose with a weight to dampen the vibration a bit.

There was a problem with the fan clutch wiring harness rubbing a hole in the radiator! Many people had that problem. Link.

A lot of early 2003 trucks (2004 too?) had low axle fluid levels from the factory. I assume this would have been fixed by the time you get to a used one, but you never know.

2003 and some 2004 trucks had a problem with the clutch making a knocking noise in neutral with the pedal released. This was fixed by a TSB that replaced the pressure plate, I believe. The knock won't hurt anything, but many people found it annoying.

There was a batch of trucks (mine was included) that had a paint issue from the factory. Many of us got letters direct from PPG that provided a 100k mile 10-year paint warranty. I assume that any afflicted trucks would have peeling paint by now, so this should be an obvious one to diagnose.

Speaking of paint, many 3rd gen owners used to complain about very thin paint, and a lot of discussion centered around people trying to get the dealers to repaint trucks. Some were successful, most weren't. Thin paint issues show up more on the darker colors, because the primer is white. [My truck actually has areas where paint is MISSING!].

Early 2003's had an alternator bracket that would crack. This was replaced as part of a recall. Check the alternator bracket - the crack should be obvious. This was an early 2003 problem only (pre February 2003).

There was a problem in 2003 with the "check gauges" light flashing intermittently for no reason at all. I think it was fixed with a computer flash.

There was also a problem with a slow fuel gauge response after fillup. It was fixed by the same ECM flash as the one for the check gauges light problem. I never had the flash... I just live with the slow fuel gauge response.

Occasionally the 2003 trucks would give a "blank stare" out of the overhead display. It'll read "--", with no way to reset it until you shut down and restart. Computer glitch - nothing to be concerned about.

Very loud AC compressor clutch when first engaged after sitting for awhile. An intermittent problem that will make you think the compressor just exploded. Very loud. Not an issue (mine has been doing this for 76k miles now).

Don't forget the front hub bearing assemblies! If the truck lived in a salty environment they will be electrochemically welded into the steering knuckles, and impossible to remove without destruction and a whole world of swearing. Link.

I still believe, however, that the 2003-2004 trucks are the best of the HPCR series. I base this opinion on the complete lack of emissions equipment. The fold-flat load floor is nice on the 2003-2005 trucks (the 2006-up load floor is pathetic). I also like the tie-down cleats in the bed of 2003-2005 much better than the little rings they started using in 2006.

My goodness, that's a lot of words.

Ryan

 

[Forrest Nearing]

well, I use my 98 12v every day for work... the '04 is the toy

 

[Coalsmoke]

Ryan, don't worry about typing too much, I appreciate you giving me a real good list like that. Thank you. I will print that off and take it with me next time I go truck shopping.



I've got to say I was taken aback when I read your response to the fact that I'm closing my business and wanting to upgrade my truck. Nothing in life is absolute or concrete. A person sometimes has to accept and swallow the risk and make the best educated decision he or she can. Would you like to know more about what's going on?

 

[rbattelle]

I've got to say I was taken aback when I read your response to the fact that I'm closing my business and wanting to upgrade my truck.

Ah, well, I understand. It's just that I have this "romantic" view of the welder's life and I can't imagine anyone moving on to something else. What could possibly be better than being a welder!? Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, you know?



There's another 2003-2005 issue I just thought of - leaky rocker box gaskets. Some trucks came assembled from Cummins with a slightly rolled rocker box gasket (o-ring, really). This can cause a slow seepage of oil that will coat the back and sides of the block. It's not a major issue, so don't panic if you notice it. A new gasket is only about $15. Of course, if the dealer washes the truck down before showing it to you the problem won't be visible.



If I were you, I'd be very wary of trucks that have had fueling boxes on them. I'm not saying anything bad about fuel boxes, per se, but my personal opinion is that trucks with pressure-enhancing fueling boxes tend to have a higher incidence of fuel system failures. So how do you tell whether a truck had a fuel box? I have no idea. Velcro and spliced wires is all I can think of.



Ryan