This hard starting is unbelieveable!

[JGheen]

Well, it came back, thought I had the "technique" down to start my '06 without 5 seconds of cranking before ignition. Crazy how I had to develop a technique just to get it to roll over and fire on the first couple rotations. :-laf I couldn't believe that it happened everytime I went to start the truck today and it was flawless for the last week or so. Suddenly it just took forever for it to start today and I could only get it to fire like it should once. :{ As those of you who have had this problem know and feel, this is embarassing, unacceptable and it got me quite annoyed and upset today. Has anyone heard anything else on why this is happening on our '06 trucks? I just can't figure it out. I literally have to try and crank the engine over at the exact same period in time to make it start right. From the moment I turn it to "on", wait a good 3-5 seconds for some of the dash lights to go out and crank it right before the last "ding" goes off, it will start right up. Thought I had it down and everything would be fine and, don't really want to use the word "never", but it came back and I thought I would share my latest concern over this agrivating issue with my new truck. :{



Joe

 

[GFritsch]

I hate going to the dealer, but... .

My 04 has to crank about 1 second which is longer than my 94 which would start instantly. I know the new trucks have to run through the computer and all, but if it is a full 5 seconds that sounds too long. I wonder if the wait to start light on the dash on newer trucks has more to do than just the grid heater warming up? Maybe the computer or other prepping for start up. Weird.



Good luck,

Greg

 

[JGheen]

The "Wait to Start" light doesn't even come on unless it's colder than 55* or so. I have only seen it come on in the morning when it is 50* out and during the daytime I will never see it. Others have said this is normal but obviously the hard starting is not.



Joe

 

[sag2]

You need to flash the controller using TSB 18-003-06 Rev A for the intermittent long crank. It was released at the end of September for the 05 trucks.

 

[TowPro]

You need to flash the controller using TSB 18-003-06 Rev A for the intermittent long crank. It was released at the end of September for the 05 trucks.

this TSB came out Jan 21, 2006. I had it done in april for the long crank. Did nothing to help. But it did fix my CEL coming at times for "temp differential"



Now the new TSB 18-05-06b includes some new "features"



Turbocharger durability improvement. Implemented a engine speed limitation when cold, to protect the turbocharger bearings.



Clutch durability improvement. Implemented a minimum engine speed limitation when launching vehicle from a stop, to protect the clutch ( I hear this turns the idle up to 850)



Personally, I don't need my idle turned up because someone else don't know how to drive a clutch. I always get over 100K out of a clutch.



I think I will keep the lock on the OBDC connector.

 

[CUMMINZ]

cranking

My 06 starts fine but I notice every now and then when I turn the key it is not instanious. The key is turned all the way and there is maybe a second or two delay before starter turns.

 

[DieselFiend]

I had a buddy with an 05 manual that had the long start problem. he started the lemon law process but got no where. he finally just had to trade it in on a nissan. what a shame that DC hasn't fixed this problem. It seems to be isolated to just certain trucks.

 

[JGheen]

I'll try and run by the dealer and present that TSB number to them and maybe they'll reflash it but I just am not optimistic that it will work after reading all the posts about how that didn't do anything. Good thing the rig started right up this morning and hopefully will continue to do that... ...



Joe

 

[sag2]

The flash has only been out for the long crank on 05 models since September 27. Anyone that had the flash done before that date does not have the latest software, and should have it done again.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I feel like our 06 takes too long to start, I have found myself twitching the key like I was in my 01 and when I let go the truck isn't running. To me it feels like it cranks too much to start but when the wife gets in it to go to work I hear her start it and it does crank a little more than mine but it's not too long by any means.



I think it is just weird to me when I turn the key cause I'm use to my 01. I always use to chuckle to myself when I heard a Ferd start at the fuel station, now I guess we're pretty similar.

 

[JGheen]

Well, made an appt. for Monday morning to have the computer reflashed from the above listed TSB. I called Murphy/Shelby Dodge and they were absolutely no help over the phone. The guys barely spoke english and was asking all these questions about the truck that did not even pertain to the service. He even told me they would keep the truck there overnight for a re-flash, what an idiot, he is never gonna be getting my truck.

So my appt. is with the Dependable Dodge in Canoga Park, so hopefully it will be very dependable. The service guy I talked to sounded like he was straight out of Enfland wit the accent he had, at least I could understand him better than the Mexican guy at the previous dealer. Also, he said he would only take maybe an hour at the most to re-flash the computer, which is exactly what I wanted to hear instead of keeping the truck overnight.

I am still debating whether to take it in or just live with the occasional long cranks since others hae said the re-flash had done nothing. Maybe I'll just do it anyway to get the updates if it already doesn't have them.



Joe

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Good dealers are hard to find, I used to have one in Maine but now back in NY it's different although I think I found one where I just bought the new truck. The service manager is a former mechanic, and the parts manager is also. My truck was suppose to have trailer mirrors on it but the factory put the wrong ones on even though they were on the sticker, so they were replacing them and so I didn't have to wait so long the service manager went out and changed the mirrors while the tech did a couple TSB's and the high idle enable. I think I may have found a new home we'll see



By the way if anyone around the NY / VT border is looking for a dealer try Zappone Chrysler Jeep in Granville NY. They may not know what you are talking about but they seem to try anyways.

 

[GShail]

when i had a long starting problem it ended up being the CP3 pump. Maybe the problem lies there.

 

[JGheen]

when i had a long starting problem it ended up being the CP3 pump. Maybe the problem lies there.

Well, what was the issue with your CP3?



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Just thought I would update you guys on this issue I "was" having.



Check engine light came on about 1820 miles(per thread "1st check engine light... . what to do) and I went to the dealer after finding out it was the common code P0514 for the battery temp sensor performance. Dealer tech re-flashed the computer and the code cleared. Ever since then the hard starting has disappeared. Oo. It fires right up with less than . 5 seconds of cranking now. Another thing I found was that the engine idles @ exactly 800 RPM all the time now. Before the engine would idle @ 750 RPM and sometimes when rolling to a stop in neutral it would idle hunt as well as idle around 800-850 RPM.

Sounds like the re-flash I got was an updated D/C engine map file cuz it seems to run a lot smoother and start-up like the way it should.



Another thing I read, I think it was in TDR issue 52 or 53, about hard starting and it is apparently all due to the Dual Mass Flywheel in the manual trucks with the G56. According to the article, the DMF is causing the discrepency in the cam and crank sensors communication to each other. I believe the conclusion for the article was that a swap to a solid flywheel clutch, like an SBC OFE, would eliminate the problem. I'm gonna live with the DMF for now, until it goes out, but definately going to an SBC OFE or something of that nature with a solid flywheel for the replacment clutch assembly in this truck.



Just wanted to let you fellers know.....



Joe

 

[betterthanstock]

Another thing I read, I think it was in TDR issue 52 or 53, about hard starting and it is apparently all due to the Dual Mass Flywheel in the manual trucks with the G56. According to the article, the DMF is causing the discrepency in the cam and crank sensors communication to each other.

Joe

Impossible. The sensors are both at the front of the engine, and move in sync. (cam gears have a few thousandths backlash, but no more)



If the DMF enters resonance at the cranking speed (oscillates wildly), it may make the engine rotation speed slightly uneven while cranking. Does it buck while cranking? (feel the shifter) I doubt it.

 

[JGheen]

No bucking while cranking..... I'll see if I can find that article and what it exactly states about the hard starting and DMF.



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Found it! From TDR issue 51, page 24, under the 3rd Gen truck section.







- G56 Turbo Diesel Long Start -



If you recently purchased a new Turbo Diesel equipped with a G56 manual transmission and are experiencing a long starting process, you are not alone. Some owners have reported starting taking as long as 15 seconds from tunring the key to actual engine run. The dual mass flywheel used in the G56 transmission causes the problem. The flywheel is designed to isolate unwanted engine vibration from the cab of the truck. It does a great job of isolating. It is also inadvertently causing the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors to not come into alignment on engine start-up. Because alignment of the two sensors is not occuring, the ECM is withholding fuel from the engine which prevents it from starting.



To address this problem Dodge has issued technical service bulletin 18-015-05 Revision A, dated 8/17/05. The reflash portion of the TSB was performed on this truck and the problem was corrected with the flash.







My truck was made in Sept. of '05, so I my ECM must have had the older software still loaded up hence why my first reflash has pretty much corrected that issue.



Joe

 

[betterthanstock]

He must have been thinking of the 2nd gen, which had the crank sensor at the flywheel.

The 3rd gen has it at the front pulley, and the cam drive gears are at front also. I am not denying that dodge/cummins must have found something, including loosening the ECM's expectations of what the sensors are supposed to see while cranking, but the problem could not have been the twisting of the DMF. The clutch is disconnected too, while cranking, so the dual mass spring really sees no real load to cause it to twist, and you said you feel no bucking of the engine, so there must have been something else.

SO if they loosened the window of acceptable signals from sensors while cranking, it will of course start faster. The injectors also bleed fuel/air back to the fuel tank while the lift pump operates, as you wait to start, so they may have changed that a little bit too, to make it bleed trapped air faster.

 

[olznut]

Well, made an appt. for Monday morning to have the computer reflashed from the above listed TSB. I called Murphy/Shelby Dodge and they were absolutely no help over the phone. The guys barely spoke english and was asking all these questions about the truck that did not even pertain to the service. He even told me they would keep the truck there overnight for a re-flash, what an idiot, he is never gonna be getting my truck.

So my appt. is with the Dependable Dodge in Canoga Park, so hopefully it will be very dependable. The service guy I talked to sounded like he was straight out of Enfland wit the accent he had, at least I could understand him better than the Mexican guy at the previous dealer. Also, he said he would only take maybe an hour at the most to re-flash the computer, which is exactly what I wanted to hear instead of keeping the truck overnight.

I am still debating whether to take it in or just live with the occasional long cranks since others hae said the re-flash had done nothing. Maybe I'll just do it anyway to get the updates if it already doesn't have them.



Joe

Ugh, I didn't want to hear that, I guess Tim, Casey and Nick are gone, shame, they were real good people, went way beyond the call for people there :{ . It's been almost a year since I last talked to them and these places go through people like crazy. My sales guy left the dealer about a month after I got my truck. I guess I'll have to give Dependable Dodge a call regarding my cold smoking and rough running issue.