This REALLY bothers me!

[parcher]

Let me begin by saying that I know I'm posting this in the wrong place, I put it here because this is the top of the page. I ask the administrator not to bury this thread where no-one will see it.



I am a dealer service technician, notice I didn't say "mechanic"? I have an AOS degree from the State of New York, am an ASE certified Master Automobile Technician and have be "Gold Certified" by Chrysler for five years. I have a problem with many members lumping all the service depts in the country into one big group of incompetent "parts changers" who work for "STEALERS". The dealership where I work has been in the same family since 1929. In a small town you don't stay in business that long long by ripping people off. Everyone I work with takes pride in fixing the problems we see. It amazes me that the general conscensus is that the dealer is a crook then I hear people advising others to "Hide your bombs before you go to the stealer"

I'm fairly certain I will be attacked for speaking my mind but I can live with that. I'm not looking for a war, I just had to get something off my chest.

 

[cpermd]

Have you ever thoughtabout the benefits of living in the Ozark mountains of NW Arkansas?

cpermd

 

[Steve Campbell]

Paul....

... It is too bad that generalizations get made. Someone in the past made a suggestion to have a category of dealeerships to avoid and those to frequent... ... well I can understand TDR's reluctance to have something like that on their website.



There are a lot of good dealerships and technicians out there... . just like there are a lot of CTD's with no problems. The nature of this "beast" is to find solutions to problems people have. It has been speculated in the past that short time readers of this forum might have a tendency to "shy away" form a Cummins purchase because of all of the "apparent" problems.



I guess it is like the saying "one bad apple... . "



Thank you for pointing out "another" quality place to have CTD service work done.

 

[Joe G.]

Paul,



There is a reason that a lot of truck owners take their trucks to a dealer as a last resort. The dealer here in Eureka has a very good service department. However, I once went to a dealer in another town to take care of a minor warrentee problem. By the time they got thru jerking me around I was ready to burn the place down. Big time temper fit!! I'm glad you work for a good one, but there are a lot of them that are not.



I was not really aware that the term mechanic was derogatory. I've been around quite a while and the guys who use the wrenches in shops have always been called mechanics and were proud of their jobs. So pardon, me if I use the same term for these guys that I have used for sixty years. I also have a hard time calling members of the media anything but reporters. And hair stylists anything but barbers.

 

[Shovelhead]

Unfortunately when we "generalize" we paint the good and the bad with the same brush.

The trouble seems to be, that for every “good” dealer out there, there are 10 who don’t seem to give a rat’s behind about anything except the next $.

The common perception now is that Customer Service has been moved waaaay down the list of thing to concentrate on to be a “good” business.

If you’re one of the “Good Guys”, believe me, the word will get around.



On the other hand…. . be thankful you’re not a “Lawyer”, “Used car Salesman”, or a “Politician”.

 

[WadePatton]

It should make you mad. Just as mad as it makes us. DC should fix it. There is no excuse for Service and Parts departments of Dealerships being anything but competent and competitive.



Oh, did I say competitive? That's part of the problem. It has become easier to shop around for the better dealer, but the whole dealer problem arose from the "hey, we're the DEALER, they HAVE to come to us 'cause we're the only one in town" attitude. Dealer only service items, Dealer only parts-etc.



Hats off to all the good service managers and technicians out there. Oo.



It's a shame that they're so hard to find--and overcharge for everything.

 

[danandamy]

I'm glad you like your job and are good at it. The truth of the matter is, there are ALOT of dealer service Departments out there and I include Ford and Chevy here, that absolutly suck. That's a fact, sorry you have to get lumped in with bad company. If you wonder why people have the attitudes they do on dealer service departments, just try out the "search" function and you'll get an idea. Me myself, I don't have a dog in this fight, I love my 12 valve with 145k on it, no warranty so it will NEVER see the inside of a dealer service department.



dan

12 VALVES RULE

 

[illflem]

Paul, I hope you post the name and rating of your dealer here http://dodgeram.info/survey_dealer/Dealers.htm Otherwise the odds of finding a good dealer are worse than the lottery. Biggest problem with dealer service besides high prices is that many don't have a tech that knows diesels.

 

[LSMITH]

I have tried to have warranty work done at seven, SEVEN different dealers. I got nothing but grief and incompetent work done in 99% of the cases. In all of my trials I found ONE service writer and ONE tech that were worth anything at all. The service writer got sick of the crooked, yes I said CROOKED and mean it, management. He quit and went into real estate, good for him!!! I can't get to the decent tech anymore because the rest of the service writers are worthless. I had the same experience with Ford dealers. There are a lot of sleezeballs in the car business, face it cause most of us have witnessed it firsthand. Since the one service writer that actually took an interest in his customers quit I have not been able to find one that would be worth whizzing on if he was engulfed in flames.



parcher, you need to take a step back and not take the attitude around here toward dealerships personally. No one has directed this at you or your dealership. There might well be some decent dealerships around, but try as I might I have given up searching. It simply is not worth continuing unless I move somewhere else. Lighten up, cause the attitude here has been EARNED by the vast majority of dealers.

 

[rweis]

In MY job, PERFORMANCE COUNTS!



In service work PERFORMANCE COUNTS!



That is NOT to say it should all be a piece of cake. There are PLEANTY of NON warrantee things owners try to have done under warrantee, BUT



If it is warantee, then DIR (do it right) the first time. I have to, you have to, or don't go back. 3 strikes and you are out.



In FL the above web page ratings tell me that I have to drive to Tampa (100miles) to get it done right. I would rather drive 100 miles and stay in a motel overnight and get it done right, than spend 5 days taking it back time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. In the long run I lose fewer vacation days with DIR.



If you work at a dealer that DIR, then customers will come back willingly. If it is within 100 miles of Winter HAven FL then I would be glad to use your dealership until proven otherwise.

 

[parcher]

Here's another wrinkle. Two people buy new vehicles, one is a steady maintenance customer while the other, because he's convinced the dealer will never do right by him does all his own maintenance (will NOT void warrantee). Time and mileage pass to the point where the vehicles in question are just out of warrantee and each has a component failure. Which vehicle owner would you, if you were the dealer, or zone rep, or manufacturer, try to help? If something is a warranty issue and the customer can prove the vehicle has had the minimum required maintenance (doesn't matter by whom) then it should be covered end of story. If the customer can't provide proof of maintenance then they're screwed. If any of you have been treated poorly by your dealers all I can say is that it does not happen at Ketcham Motors. People sometimes have unrealistic expectations of what's covered under warranty. One customer called to make an appointment to have his "warranty dent" fixed. When we explained that body damage was not a warranty issue he came back with "Hold on pal, I got a bumper to bumper warranty and the dent in the fender is clearly between the bumpers"

I wish I were closer geographically to Whiteknight, I'm sure we could resolve his parents engine issue to the satisfaction of all parties.

 

[jerryrigg]

Paul...



If your at a good dealership then you need to get the word out ... ..... tells us where your at and you will probable get a new flock of customers...



Myself I bought my 1st Dodge in '85 ordered from the factory. It was a lemon from day 1, the dealership busted their backs trying to fix it, I ended up buying a GMC to drive while they had my Dodge sometimes for 2-3 weeks at a shot, they even gave me a letter from a Chrysler VP for Service to give to the state for inspection indicating they removed the emissions for troubleshooting so I could renew the registration. That type of service was rare then and almost extinct now, the dealership (don't remember the name) was in Littleton, NH (Very small town).

Since then I have lived in 6 other states and have never found a dealership worth spit. They have out right lied to my face on numerous occasions the latest was the oil on the front of my engine is designed to be there because of the crankcase breather design and that I should just take extra oil with me with when driving at extreme angles. The TSB for rerouting the breather is only for extreme cases and not authorized outside of the mountain states.

 

[parcher]

I work at a Chrysler only dealer not a Dodge franchise. We are a full line warranty station but trucks are not our main line. I am trained in rear drive transmissions and rear axles and have overhauled plenty of each. Now that I own a CTD I am trying to talk my boss into sending me to diesel fuel and diesel engine mechanical classes. Unfortunately DaimlerChrysler only tains on current hardware so the opportunity to train on the 24V non-common rail engine has passed.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Paul - here's an example of the kind of treatment that we get at some dealers. I bought my truck used out of town. I went to the only Dodge dealer that does diesel work in my town. I had a couple of small issues with the truck when I bought it. It was a little over a year old with 24,000 miles on it at the time. The sheath around the heater cord was pulled from the plug, the transfer case output shaft seal (rear) was leaking, and I wanted to get the child tether anchor installed (free Dodge TSB). At the same time I wanted to establish a good relationship with the dealer for possible future problems. I went in and saw the service manager, explained that I had bought it used and that I wanted to establish a good relationship, what the problems were, etc, etc (being extremely friendly). Here is nearly his exact words:



"Here's how we do it with diesels - our diesel guy is also our transmission guy. You drop the truck off and he'll get to it when he gets a chance. Typically the truck will sit here for 2-3 weeks before he looks at it. Then we'll order the parts and he'll fix it when they arrive. "



I'm standing there looking like :--) !



I actually chuckled because I thought he was kidding - he asked what I thought was funny and that's the way it was. I was shocked. Still being nice I mentioned to him that this was my business vehicle and that I could not live without it for 3-4 weeks at a time. He told me that typically these trucks are sold to businesses and it isn't a big deal for them to live without them for that long . I asked why it needed to see their diesel tech since the transfer case was the same one they had on the V10 and he said that if it had a diesel in it that it had to go to their diesel tech no matter what was wrong! Since I had just bought it and still had the truck I was replacing I went ahead and left it and got the work done. 3 weeks later I got the truck back for a job that I could do in about 2 hrs.



5 months later I had a bad lift pump - was seeing 4 psi at idle and if I revved up the engine it would immediately go to 0 even at a stand still with no load. Brought it in and he said that if it was running it was fine. I pointed out in the service manual where it called for a minimum of 10 psi and pointed at the fuel pressure gauge that showed 0 - he still said that if it was running it was fine and he wouldn't do anything about it. I then asked for the service manager above him and got the same story. I ended up giving up and bought the lift pump myself and replaced it.



The next closest dealer to me that could work on the truck is an hour and a half away - not convenient to say the least. Granted, there are good dealers around - that one an hour and a half away is one of them. However, from my experience in talking with MANY owners as both a writer for the magazine, president of the GLTDR for 2 years and one of the founders of that club (over 100 members), etc - FAR more people have had problems with dealers than ones that have good ones and I'm talking about a ratio of at LEAST 20 to 1. Most of the guys I know after the experiences that they've had now buy the parts and do the work themselves even though it could be covered under warranty. Just my experience - no offense to you or any of the good dealers that are out there.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Unfortunately DaimlerChrysler only tains on current hardware so the opportunity to train on the 24V non-common rail engine has passed.

Doesn't that seem like a problem to you? There are guys that bought brand new '02 trucks as recent as 3 months ago (and there are probably some still on lots somewhere brand new right now) that will be under warranty for 5 more years! If D/C won't train on servicing that engine what are the chances that 5 years down the road that someone will be able to get warranty service at ABC dealer in Podunk, AZ?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Most technicians/mechanic are good enough. They just try to get the job done to fast.

I prefer those who were working on vehicles in their parents backyard and decided to make a career out of it.



But in the end I can't stand the snot nose, wet behind the ears service writers right out of (where ever they come from) that don't now that a cupped front tire caused by out of alignment condition can be rotated to the rear without buying a new tire and that not all customer's who bring their vehicle to a dealer have no clue how they work ( the vehicle).

Best service writer I ever had was a lady. Didn't know anything about diesels. But she new which techs/mechanics to assign my truck to.

 

[parcher]

Steve, If I had the experience you had at a dealer I would surely share your sentiment. The thing about the training kind irks me too as I own a 2002 that I can't get certified on. I do have the advantage however of being connected, I am good friends with the diesel instructor from the training center, alas, this is no help to the hapless fellow in Podunk. Did you ever call the customer service center and report your woes to them? The phone number is in your owners manual. A call to the customer service center AUTOMATICALLY generates a "c. a. r. e. " I don't remember at the moment exactly what is stands for but it's viewed as a blemish on the dealer if it remains unresolved, for that matter too many resolved c. a. r. e. s. is not good either. If you only complain about poor service to each other and not to D/C who might actually be able to help then you're not goint to get results. While I see that there have been quite a few less than spectacular intercourses in the service departments I am still willing to bet that the good outnumber the bad and lumping all together is wrong.



BTW, Thank you for leaving this thread here for now. I won't be hurt when you feel it's time to move it. It has given both sides an opportunity to vent.

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent
... Most of the guys I know after the experiences that they've had now buy the parts and do the work themselves even though it could be covered under warranty. Just my experience - no offense to you or any of the good dealers that are out there.

As I've been saying for some time, the paper the warranty is printed on is more valuable than the warranty itself.

Fest3er

 

[LSMITH]

My complaints to DC eventually got to the regional rep on the phone, he basically told me to go pound sand until I was full. The 800 number was the same thing. Useless to even try, they just don't care IMO.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I called too and I got the same response as Howard.