I am making my own shutdown timer. It is temperature based and should work pretty well. The only problem is this. When I turn the key to off, the truck hiccups and then runs to its setpoint and shuts off. This hiccup has me somewhat worried. Does this happen to others with the shutdown timers? Or am I missing something. I do not have the ABS and Airbag bus energised yet as I am having some difficulty finding a diode to use. That's a long story. Would that have something to do with it? Let me know what you think. Thanks.
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Those with shutdown timers. I have a ?
- Thread starter Amianthus
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Aron, I do not have the diode in so I am not powering the ABS bus either, I have no hiccups or anything when I shut the key off. It never misses a beat so I do not think that is your problem.
It sounds like you are not powered on the primary bus from the shutdown unit until the key is off. If this is the case power the primary bus anytime the EGT is over the setpoint. If that is not the case ignore me
.
It sounds like you are not powered on the primary bus from the shutdown unit until the key is off. If this is the case power the primary bus anytime the EGT is over the setpoint. If that is not the case ignore me
.Is there some sort of...
momentary power interruption between key positions (going from run to off)?
momentary power interruption between key positions (going from run to off)?
Let me know when it's ready
Let me know when you have it ready to sell, Aron! And thanks again for the help installing the pac-brake. I can see why people who have had one will never do without - kind of like 4 wheel drive!
Ray
Let me know when you have it ready to sell, Aron! And thanks again for the help installing the pac-brake. I can see why people who have had one will never do without - kind of like 4 wheel drive!
Ray
It's still doing it.
Well, I've got the ABS bus energized, and it's still hiccupping when I turn the key off. The power to the engine is un-interrupted, so I have no idea why it's doing it. Anyone have any insight to this? Is this normal for a shutdown timer on a 24 valve?
If you are wondering, the timer is an Omron temperature controller, that activates a relay that then powers both the engine bus, and the ABS bus. I don't know if this is a really cost effective way to do this, but it works.
Any ideas?
Well, I've got the ABS bus energized, and it's still hiccupping when I turn the key off. The power to the engine is un-interrupted, so I have no idea why it's doing it. Anyone have any insight to this? Is this normal for a shutdown timer on a 24 valve?
If you are wondering, the timer is an Omron temperature controller, that activates a relay that then powers both the engine bus, and the ABS bus. I don't know if this is a really cost effective way to do this, but it works.
Any ideas?
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
The turbo temp monitor in my truck doesn't do that at all Aaron. My only guess would be that the timer you are using only provides power to the bus once the ignition/power source is turned off. So the relay doesn't fire until the key is turned off which would cause the momentary stumble. Just a guess.
Aron,
I am sending you this trick little diode. It is about the size of a cell phone antennae tip with two "fast-on" terminals for easy use. You can use it for evaluation of your circuit. A pull-up resister might also work.
How about a wiring diargam? Might be able to be more helpful if I could see a schematic. Not to mention that I would like to try this myself! PM me if you like.
If you like the diode, I can furnish you with a part number and source of supply. We use these for lots of project work.
Doc
I am sending you this trick little diode. It is about the size of a cell phone antennae tip with two "fast-on" terminals for easy use. You can use it for evaluation of your circuit. A pull-up resister might also work.
How about a wiring diargam? Might be able to be more helpful if I could see a schematic. Not to mention that I would like to try this myself! PM me if you like.
If you like the diode, I can furnish you with a part number and source of supply. We use these for lots of project work.
Doc
For those who want a diagram...
#ad
Thanks to Steve for making this drawing so that I can modify it for this thread.
As you can see, it is wired similar to Steve's setup and he has no problem like this. The Omron controller is on and running once the key is turned (power supplied to the inverter). So there is no switching it on or off when the key is turned. The hiccup happens about . 5 to 1 second after the key is turned to off and it can even be removed. Then it will hiccup. I cannot figure out how it's getting a hiccup. The only difference is the diode. I don't have one installed. But that shouldn't matter as far as keeping the busses energized. So what do you think? Does the sudden change in input voltage to the inverter cause the output to drop the Omron for a split second and then retun to a running state? The Omron shows no indication of this. Not to mention, the alarm on the inverter shows no indication of this either. It doesn't seem to be hurting it any, but it's still something I'd like to take care of.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks doc for sending the diode. I'll give it a try to see if it works.
#adThanks to Steve for making this drawing so that I can modify it for this thread.
As you can see, it is wired similar to Steve's setup and he has no problem like this. The Omron controller is on and running once the key is turned (power supplied to the inverter). So there is no switching it on or off when the key is turned. The hiccup happens about . 5 to 1 second after the key is turned to off and it can even be removed. Then it will hiccup. I cannot figure out how it's getting a hiccup. The only difference is the diode. I don't have one installed. But that shouldn't matter as far as keeping the busses energized. So what do you think? Does the sudden change in input voltage to the inverter cause the output to drop the Omron for a split second and then retun to a running state? The Omron shows no indication of this. Not to mention, the alarm on the inverter shows no indication of this either. It doesn't seem to be hurting it any, but it's still something I'd like to take care of.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks doc for sending the diode. I'll give it a try to see if it works.
Well I installed the diode. No change. Anyone have any other ideas? I'm fresh out. My only guess is that the sudden change in voltage into the inverter causes the Omron to spaz and momentarily open then close. Although, today it wasn't all that bad. I wonder if the A/C has anything to do with it? Hmmm?
just an idea
Why not just run cord from house 120v and then you would know for sure that it was or was not the inverter not sure if that help im a electrician and am building my own out of a P. L. C and that runs off of 12dc along with a display not sure its going to work but it should
Why not just run cord from house 120v and then you would know for sure that it was or was not the inverter not sure if that help im a electrician and am building my own out of a P. L. C and that runs off of 12dc along with a display not sure its going to work but it should
Two questions.
1. ) Why the inverter? Is there no 12V timer available?
2. ) Does your relay have a built in resistor/diode suppressor circuit on the switch leg?
Actually that is three questions. Maybe we should make a simple bread-board controller circuit with a sensor, timer and relay- What do you think?
1. ) Why the inverter? Is there no 12V timer available?
2. ) Does your relay have a built in resistor/diode suppressor circuit on the switch leg?
Actually that is three questions. Maybe we should make a simple bread-board controller circuit with a sensor, timer and relay- What do you think?
More questions and a few cents:
Do you have a seperate Kill switch for the timer you can get to without opening the hood (ie dash mounted)? Looking at the drawing alone I don't see it. What happens if you lose oil pressure how do you kill the engine quickly as you pointed out the timer is energized the moment you start the truck. I'd put in a dash mounted switch to a double pole relay, mount the relay so one pole is between your 20amp fuse and the timer relay contacts and the other pole is between your 12vdc and the inverter. This will do 2 things: 1) the inverter isn't running the whole time the truck is on thus extending the life of the inverter etc (just remember to flip the switch before turning the key to off) and 2) it provides a quick kill switch if you lose oil pressure or other problems.
As far as your problem goes I don't see any reason for it from your drawing. When you shut down there could be a sudden heavy amp draw from somewhere (that I don't know without testing your truck), Try putting an AMP Meter inline with the 12v and Inverter, measure the voltage also and turn the key off. If your getting a sudden drop you have a load somewhere. Solution put a good size capacitor between the 12v and the inverter. I'd also try the other recommendation about just hooking the timer to household 120vac to see if the problem still exists.
-Matt
Do you have a seperate Kill switch for the timer you can get to without opening the hood (ie dash mounted)? Looking at the drawing alone I don't see it. What happens if you lose oil pressure how do you kill the engine quickly as you pointed out the timer is energized the moment you start the truck. I'd put in a dash mounted switch to a double pole relay, mount the relay so one pole is between your 20amp fuse and the timer relay contacts and the other pole is between your 12vdc and the inverter. This will do 2 things: 1) the inverter isn't running the whole time the truck is on thus extending the life of the inverter etc (just remember to flip the switch before turning the key to off) and 2) it provides a quick kill switch if you lose oil pressure or other problems.
As far as your problem goes I don't see any reason for it from your drawing. When you shut down there could be a sudden heavy amp draw from somewhere (that I don't know without testing your truck), Try putting an AMP Meter inline with the 12v and Inverter, measure the voltage also and turn the key off. If your getting a sudden drop you have a load somewhere. Solution put a good size capacitor between the 12v and the inverter. I'd also try the other recommendation about just hooking the timer to household 120vac to see if the problem still exists.
-Matt
voltage drop
i dont have wiring diagram for my truck just an idea but is there the same voltage going to batteries ie inverter when key is shut off maybe alternator is getting disconnected somehow some relay small hiccup could be a verry small voltage drop on 12v side
or your just getting the 60hz cycle on the lag side of the sine wave. I will look around or ask my buddy that i work with he is a very sharp electrical engineer hope he will help me with the PLC
that i want to program to do same thing
ALOHA
i dont have wiring diagram for my truck just an idea but is there the same voltage going to batteries ie inverter when key is shut off maybe alternator is getting disconnected somehow some relay small hiccup could be a verry small voltage drop on 12v side
or your just getting the 60hz cycle on the lag side of the sine wave. I will look around or ask my buddy that i work with he is a very sharp electrical engineer hope he will help me with the PLC
that i want to program to do same thing
ALOHA
The reason for the inverter is because I got the temperature controller for free from work. We have process controls here and we changed out the Love controls to the Omrons for reliability reasons. Well, there were a few laying around so I appropriated one. I wanted a shutdown timer (but wanted to do it cheap 'cause I'm a tightwad). The only down side was that the Omron controller has to have an 80-240 V input to operate. Hence, the 12V to 110VAC inverter. The Omron has an internal relay, but it can only handle 1 amp of current. So I have that relay running another relay that is 35 amps. Yes, the second relay has a resistor on the switch leg. So far, all the stuff I had laying around. So I'm only into the project for about $25. If you count the inverter, $75 (had a couple laying around). If you count the whole thing, $450. So I'm getting off cheap.
I want to have the inverter running to power the Omron because the Omron has a digital temperature readout. It allows me to check the accuracy of my Isspro pyro. It's always within 25 degrees. The only downside is that they both use the same probe. But the accuracy is right on (calibrated it at work). That and the Omron will only register up to 999 degrees. But if it's accurate below that, it should be accurate above that.
As for the kill switch, I have thought about doing that. But I want to get this fixed first. Installing a kill switch would be easy. I just have to install a small switch on the switching circuit of the relay.
I will give the cord from the house thing a try. I never thought to try that to see if it is inverter related, or if it is controller related. It just never occured to me. Thanks for the good idea.
I'll let you know how things go a little later. After I try the house A/C trick.
As for using Iron Butterfly as my shutdown timer, Dodge didn't offer a turntable as an option when I bought my truck.
I want to have the inverter running to power the Omron because the Omron has a digital temperature readout. It allows me to check the accuracy of my Isspro pyro. It's always within 25 degrees. The only downside is that they both use the same probe. But the accuracy is right on (calibrated it at work). That and the Omron will only register up to 999 degrees. But if it's accurate below that, it should be accurate above that.
As for the kill switch, I have thought about doing that. But I want to get this fixed first. Installing a kill switch would be easy. I just have to install a small switch on the switching circuit of the relay.
I will give the cord from the house thing a try. I never thought to try that to see if it is inverter related, or if it is controller related. It just never occured to me. Thanks for the good idea.
I'll let you know how things go a little later. After I try the house A/C trick.
As for using Iron Butterfly as my shutdown timer, Dodge didn't offer a turntable as an option when I bought my truck.
I got it working. The problem I had has stopped since I switched from the Edge Box to the BC FMS. I think it has something to do with what fuse I was using with the Edge. Somehow the box would get a momentary voltage spike and that would make the pump stumble. Seems as if the problem is solved now when I switched to the FMS.
I still haven't connected an override swtich yet. And not having one has bitten me in the butt a couple times now. It's just one more thing I'll get to eventually.
I tried the Iron Butterfly dealy, but the rattle is such that the stylus has a hard time tracking.
I still haven't connected an override swtich yet. And not having one has bitten me in the butt a couple times now. It's just one more thing I'll get to eventually.
I tried the Iron Butterfly dealy, but the rattle is such that the stylus has a hard time tracking.
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