Thoughts on 16 CM2 turbo housing

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Having just changed the turbo housing from a 12CM2 to a 16 CM2. Here is some of the things I have found... . (Note also at the same time 370 HP injectors where installed also)

+s
EGTs are lower towing and empty down by 250 -300 Deg.

Cools down faster, two to three minutes faster.

Spool up is alot faster than I thought it would be, I have lost only 50 to 100 RPMs before boost starts from 1450 to 1550 or so. (this is with AFC richened 15 clicks)

The combination of the injectors and housing has made the mid range unbelievibly stout.

-s
It does compression brake as well as before. (time for an E Brake)

The exhaust note out the tail pipe is louder. (not negitive to me, but my better half has noted it)

The turbo noise in the cab is less from the Psycotty. (liked the noise the wife didn't)

No waste gate. To stop the clutch from slipping I moved the torque plate back before doing this I saw 40 pound of boost with the clutch slipping once the sachs clutch is installed boost will be too high IMO.

This isn't the most sceintific way of doing things, by doing the housing at th4e same time as the injectors. But I was reall pleasantly surprisedat how well this housing spools up and the no loose in driviblity.



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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

[This message has been edited by drawson (edited 10-15-2000). ]

 

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You probably would have been better to go with the 14cm2 housing in your application. It would have given you the quick spool of the 12cm2 and the breathing of the 16cm2. It does not matter now as long as you are happy with it! It would have been nice to see just the results of the housing comparision, but I know how it is when you have parts to use! In the long run you will probably be happier with the 16 if you do a lot of towing as the 16 will keep the egts down.

The basics: The 14 will spin up quicker. The 16 will have less back pressure, thus keeping
EGTs down. It just depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

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Owner: Stabco Repower, The turbo housing guys. '89, CC, SB, 5sp, 3. 54, 16cm2 housing, maxed fuel, KN, Banks exh w/muffler, Horton fan clutch, Autometer liquid filled gauges, Accessory tach option, 100% Dyna-Mat, Borgeson steering shaft, Firestone air bags, Chrysler V-twin air comp, 2. 5" lift, Rancho Shocks, Alcoa LTS wheels, BFG 255/85/R16 MTs (33. 3")

 

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Stab,

OK, newbie is confused here. From my reading of the forums, I thought the second gen. engines had a 14cm2 housing. Are they, in fact, 12's? What have the size(s) been since '94? My truck is an early '98 12v. What does it have?

Thanks in advance.
JGK

 

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drawson:

I appreciate you sharing the
"technical" aspects of the change
encountered between the 12 and 16
housings. I too have reached a
point to where I may need to change.
I recently had the 370 inj's. , gov.
sprg. kit and AFC sprg. kit installed
in my 96'CTD with an automatic
transmission, not the 5 speed. I
am considering the either the 14
housing or the HX-40/16. I am a
little concerned about doing this
because I drove a 95'CTD at the
Nevada TDR Rally a couple of years
ago which was "heavily BOMBED" and
had a 16 housing. That truck had
terrible take-off! I just went
through having a "flat spot" or
"lag" after having installed a new
torque converter with a 1600 stall
speed and it took the 370's and all
the pump mods to get rid of it! I
definitely don't want that "lag" off
the line again.

Question for you,... do you feel your
truck has any "lag" at all after
having installed the new housing?
If so, how bad do you think it is?

Thanks for your input!

------------
John_P.

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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Pump Mods, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

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John_P, My truck has no lag problems at all. To be honest I had the same kind of thoughts before Joe D. put them to rest. I do smoke more now and will start turning my AFC back in to reduce some of this. I am the prime mover for my brother in law's back hoe and the night I installed the injectors and the housing I took it up a canyon(3 1/2 to 4 grade) that I have been up many time before with this same back hoe. There was a wreck in about the middle of the canyon which brought me to a stop. I was truely amazed at how well she took right off and on how fast I was when I got into fifth and came to the first corner. I was going way too fast for the load and yet my EGT where still under 1150. It was a good 10 MPH faster than I would top it before w/ the stock injectors and housing, not from lack of power but EGT keeping me slower.

The day I put the housing and injectors on, I did the housing first and then ran to lunch and with the stock injectors and the AFC adjustment I had at the time there was a lag but not as bad as I thought it would be and I think most of it I could have gotten rid of richening the AFC.

I have a good buddy that has a 95 5 speed 3500 with the Banks stinger system on it w/ the 14 CM2 housing. We tow together alot during the summer and his EGT wheren't that much better than mine and he wasn't making the HP I was. On long hills he was only 50 - 75 deg lower than me and I was always in the lead. By next summer I'll have the Sachs clutch in and be able to push the torque plate forward again and that will be the good test.

Other than slipping my clutch doing the injectors and housing is the best I have ever done. Slightly better than the TST plates.

[This message has been edited by drawson (edited 10-11-2000). ]

 

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drawson:

Great explanation! Thanks for all your
input on this HX-40/16 issue. I will
probably end up doing what you did with
my truck. I know that "Kat Diesel" is
getting ready to put the HX-40 on his
24 Valve. However, I know the 12 and
24 Valve motors have different "power
bands" so I'm glad to hear you like
yours. I have talked with both Piers
and Joe D. and they basically said the
same thing you did, even though they
are pumping out ALOT more H. P. than
you and I are! Joe D. was VERY helpful
to me in helping me to decide to go to
the 370 injectors. That REALLY woke my
truck up! Our trucks are pretty
similar with the exception of the
transmissions so that's good too.

Drawson, again my thanks to your
good answers on this!

-------------
John_P.

 

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JGK, You have the 12cm2 housing on your truck. If it is the orginal!

 

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What I have found with the 16cm2 housing on my truck is the lag is not bad, I have a 5 spd. . The around town fuel mileage has dropped and the highway has gone up. The truck hits the higher rpm alot easier, with the lower back pressure of the larger housing.

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Paul A. Schmidt
95, 4X4, SLT 2500, 5 spd. , 4. 10, 270 hp. ,675ft. lb. TST, AFC spring kit,215hp. injectors,16cm2 turbo housing, Pacbrake, Walker muffler,
GearVendor O. D. , CenterForce Dual Friction clutch.
Eastern PA.

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 10-15-2000). ]

 

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Paul, I am noticing the same thing, I seem to be staying in a lower gear longer than before too. The lack of back pressure has made my truck come alive.

 

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The 16 housing is about as big as you need to go from what I have seen. Adam and I both run the HX40 with the 16 housing(600 horsepower). I have no lag. We have some lower horsepower trucks in our club that are also running the 16 housings on their HX35's to keep egt in check while towing.

The point is, don't fear the 16 housing, fueling can easily compensate. Do you know that the 1st gen trucks came out stock with a 21cm2 housing in "89??? Go with the 12cm2 wastegated housing if you have a 1st gen truck. The next step is the 16 housing for modified trucks with the "P" pump or the 24v engine. The 14cm2 seems to be to little to matter. For higher horsepower applications the HX40 with a 16 housing seems to be the ticket. JMO #ad

 

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HVAC, The '89s came with the 18. 5cm2 housings and the '91-'92s intercooled came with the 21cm2 housings. I know: Who cares? #ad


I have found to much back pressure (EGT heat) with a 12cm2 housing on the first gen trucks. There is plenty of spool up with the 16, but I have never tried the 14. You are correct about the right fuel at the right time making the compensation.

600 hp! WOW!! Have you figured how much the propane itself brought on?

 

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I put on a 16cm2 housing to help my EGTs. I have a 97 with a 250 TST kit that I use to tow a HEAVY 5er. After pulling into a campground with the new housing I slowed to a stop to ask questions then tried to leave. I couldn't. The heavy trailer along with the tight torque converter prevented enough spool up to get the load moving on a slight hill. I actually had to ask a F*rd to pull my trailer out to the street. When I had time, I turned the star wheel to get more low end fueling but that didn't help much. When I got back home I ordered an AFC spring kit from TST and installed that. I also found, during that install, that the AFC housing was slid all the way rearward. I replaced the spring and adjusted the preload an reinstalled the housing nearly all the way forward. That cured my woes. I can peel rubber at start off now ,wheras before, all I got was the dreaded lag resulting in slooow starts. I too, noticed better fuel milage at highway speeds and dispite the fact that I get more smoke at low RPM the truck runs like it should. The TST kit and housing along with the spring kit solved all the problems with power and EGTs.
-Paul R. Haller-

 

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We gonna see!!! I started with the 12, then went to the 14 wastegated with my Banks Power Pack. Now because of high EGT when towing my 12,500 5er in the Rockies, I'm a gonna try the 16. I just finished with the governor kit and slid the plate forward just a tad #ad
I got so much power now I give it away #ad
But boy I gotta watch that pyro meter! I'm hoping after doing the 4" exhaust and 16 housing, I won't have to pull the plate back. I just put in Bosch 215s two weeks ago, so I'm kinda hoping the fueling will compensate for the later spool up. We'll see and we'll report back!

 

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Drawson,

Did your stock turbo housing come apart easily?

[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 10-21-2000). ]

 

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Hemi, It did come apart pretty easy after the bolts where out. There was one bolt that I had to grind a wrenches closed end so I could get on it. Other than that it was a breeze. And well worth the trouble!!! #ad
#ad

 

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Another question if you guys don`t mind.

How did you move the exhaust system forward about an inch?

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Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.

[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 10-26-2000). ]

 

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I have question also, can a Pac Brake be used with the 16 CM housing? Thanks in advance.

 

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Hemi, It was hard(more sweat) moving the exhaust forward. The front hanger off the trans is alot bigger than I thought. I thought I could just turn it red hot with thre torch and bend it. Wrong!!!! I ended up cutting a V out of it and then bending it. If I had it to do over again I would just cut it and reweld it.

Rebel as far as your pack e-brake it should fit just fine. I reused my stock elbow. And isn't that what is replaced to put the e-brake on?

 

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Thanks for the tips Drawson. #ad


One more qick question:

Did you have to remove the turbo from the exhaust manifold to swap housings?


A sawzall and a piece of 4" exhaust flex pipe and 2 band clamps may be my "forward exhaust movement" #ad



How did you do hunting?

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Bill R
94 2500 SLT 4x4 5 Speed, 3. 54 LS, JRE 4" exhaust, Autometer Pyro, Boost & Water temp gauges, Bosch 215 HP injectors, Timing @ 14. 7 º, JRE Stage III #4 plate 270/675, AFC spring kit, Scotty Air, Bully Dog Propane Injection, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Optima Red Tops, Geno`s Exhaust Blanket,Espar Heater (won it!), Synthetic lubes throughout.

[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 10-26-2000). ]

 

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I was able to rebend my hanger with a Number One Cudgel (BF Hammer). As far as removing the turbo from the manifold, yes. It is the housing that is bolted to the manifold that gets replaced. Check out:
http://www.tstproducts.com/turbine_housings.html

TST has good directions and good prices for the swap. Thats where I got mine.
Steve

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98 2500 Quad Cab, 12V, 5spd, 4x4, HD Transfer Case, 370HP Diamond B Injectors, #4 TST, 16cm2 Housing, AFC Spring Kit, Governor "Modified", Walker Muffler, SS Tube Steps, Fifth Whl Hitch, Leather, CD, LSD Dana 80 Rear, 60 Front, Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Rancho RS5000 Steering Stabilizer