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Throwing in the towel thread - Deleted & Resurrected
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Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
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Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
The throwing in the towel post was deleted sometime last night, I've been working on resurrecting it all morning. I had to cut and paste it into several messages and edit the html so it would look halfway decent. I had a copy of it in my cache from around 1:00 am so if you posted after that you'll need to repost.
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
<TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="0" CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="95%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="4" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="100%"> <TBODY> <TR BGCOLOR="#e10000"> <TD VALIGN="center" WIDTH="18%"><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Author</FONT> </TD> <TD VALIGN="center"><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Topic: i have had it guys/throwing in the towel</FONT> </TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">wwcd2</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 555
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 12:17 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=wwcd2" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=wwcd2" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000000&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=0"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR>Post deleted per users request. <FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">ken</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 58
From:Lawrenceville, GA
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 12:35 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=ken" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000001&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=1"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Robert asked me to present what happened in order to avoid misunderstanding by those not involved.
TDR policy states:
"No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. " </P>
I notified Carl this morning that several of his recent postings were about group purchases and all of them had been posted since Sunday.
<A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002112.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002112.html</A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002102.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002102.html</A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum4/HTML/003561.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum4/HTML/003561.html</A> </P>
It was not an isolated incident, but rather 5 postings. I reminded Carl of the guideline and let him know that TDR had asked me to enforce it. At no time did I tell Carl he was losing posting privileges nor did I hint that he might. </P>
He still has full posting privileges on TDR. </P>
-Ken </P>
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 03:05 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000002&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=2"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> While I realize that the full story will never be told, which is another issue, it seems to me to be poor management in some fashion that allows a minority to run one particular member offsite due to complaints.
A simple rule that keeps one newsgroup on track is: If you don't like the subject header, don't click on it. Complaining that the subject is not to your liking, but you read it anyway, is... well..... stupid. </P>
</P>
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Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">JNutter</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 334
From:Albuquerque, KITTY LITTER oops NM
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 03:19 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000003&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=3"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Carl:
first off i dont under stand the 2 emails.
Your gp page lists products, vendor and price. No one is forced or coerced to purchase the products from the listed vendors at the posted price. They can use another vendor and pay more, or less if they can find a vendor charging less. I havent been able too. It sounded like one repler was angry cause he wanted a PE-10 and you only had an EZ on your site.
In a related thread a few days ago I made mention of a few vendors hawking their wares in posts with their names in the sig block and suggested that they might be required to post their company name in their sig to alert newer members of their vested intrest in trying to perswade someone to purchase a particular product or service. I have posted threads and given opinions of some of the products and prices I have paid ( most positive but some negative, as per my experiences ).
I think the site people have a fine line to tread in keeping the forums fair and impartial. I think that if vendors were required to post their company names in the signature block instead of or in addition to their real names this would go far to the achievment of fairness.
Thanks to the gp's ( to the dismay of some ) I have lots of $. 02 left to deposit on TDR. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Shortshift</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 309
From:So. Cal. USA
Registered: Jun 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 08:09 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Shortshift" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Shortshift" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000004&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=4"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Looks like there's going to be alot of people redirecting their money Carl's way. Almost everyone loses. Dumb. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">WOWZY</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 372
From:EatMe, D/C
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 10:20 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000005&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=5"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I for one will payback the hardwork that Carl has done for us by continuing to give him my buisness and encourage all members to do this not only for their own benefit but to cause the crybaby vendors some real pain in their wallets to teach them a lesson.
I think a boycott of the advertisers is in order. They do nothing for this site,but slow down loading of the TDR pages. I have never clicked on their advertisements and after this I never will. The reason is that I trust only members that have actually used the different products and give their opinions. I e-mail members sometimes if I see that a few have a particular product in their sig. This gives me a better and honest opinion that the advertisers don't give. </P>
I've had 100% success in my purchases, trusting the members, not the advertisers. </P>
The reason that the advertisements are still here (even after we've told them to up the membership fee to get rid of them) is someone has quit their job and is living off the advertisment money and is too lazy to get off the couch,eating chocolates to get a real job. </P>
Ahh! That felt good!! </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BigUgly</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 55
From:Beaufort, S. C. , C. S. A.
Registered: Dec 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 01:04 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BigUgly" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BigUgly" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000006&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=6"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> This stinks.
I joined TDR a little over a year ago and liked what I saw. I may have only about 40 some odd posts, but I'm a lurker dang it (and proud of it too!). All I can say about the recent trends in TDR Land, is that I don't like the way things have been rolling downhill lately. I used to not read the website section, but now I go right to it quicker than HVAC on Propane, I need the chuckles!
This news of Carl throwing in the towel has got my dander up. Now I'm considered a good Southern Gentleman, but I can get riled up. But I'm keeping my temper at bay today. Carl has set up many a good GP's for all of us. I have only used his GP's once or twice (I just ordered a VB and TC from Bill @ DTT and I don't remember if Carl set up the GP on the Jardine 4" that I got many moons ago). It will be a shame if we lose some of our contribuiting members (Carl, Doc, Scott1 to name a few). This is unfortunate, however, I still have a good BBS to go to, the SETDR site.
Well, have a good time yall, I'll see ya at <A HREF="http://www.setdr.org/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.setdr.org/</A> , Josiah Loverin
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YP of SETDR
Y2K 2500, 4X4, Auto, Quad Cab, SWB, 4. 10, Black. VA Box, Line-X, PE Roll top bed cover, Stainless add-ons. Jardine 4". </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">duke</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 47
From:Grants Pass, OR
Registered: Dec 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 02:04 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=duke" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=duke" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000007&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=7"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I wish someone would explain to me why TDR has a policy of not alowing prices to be posted. The price of an item is as important as the horsepower it produces. Why no discussion of GP's? Who is this website for? What do I pay my $35 for? It's certainly not for four TDR mags a year. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">John</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 1417
From:Enumclaw,WA USA
Registered: Aug 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 09:49 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=John" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=John" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000008&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=8"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I would like to point out to the TDR management there are MANY, I REPEAT, MANY TDR members that purchase parts and accessories for their Rams through the group purchasing efforts initiated by Carl, THAT WOULD NEVER HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN PURCHASED FROM THESE VENDORS! The deal, AND ONLY THE DEAL SWAYED THEM TO MAKE THE PURCHASE! That's not always true, however, it's truer than you may want to believe! Take the ATS 3-piece exhaust manifold for instance; many members reported before the group purchase was initiated they felt the price was just too steep for a variety of reasons. MANY, MANY ATS manifolds were sold as a direct result of the group purchase. For that, I thank you Carl (even though I purchased mine prior to the group purchase
#ad
).
To the other vendors that feel the need to retire off a few sales instead of making a profit through volume, lower profit sales... . and then whine to the TDR management... ... ..... well, let's just say I wish I knew who you were so I could make it a point NEVER to purchase anything from you in the future! And if I haven't so far, GOOD!
#ad
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 12-02-2000). ]
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 555
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 12:17 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=wwcd2" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=wwcd2" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000000&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=0"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR>Post deleted per users request. <FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">ken</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 58
From:Lawrenceville, GA
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 12:35 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=ken" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000001&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=1"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Robert asked me to present what happened in order to avoid misunderstanding by those not involved.
TDR policy states:
"No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. " </P>
I notified Carl this morning that several of his recent postings were about group purchases and all of them had been posted since Sunday.
<A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002112.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002112.html</A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002102.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002102.html</A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum4/HTML/003561.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum4/HTML/003561.html</A> </P>
It was not an isolated incident, but rather 5 postings. I reminded Carl of the guideline and let him know that TDR had asked me to enforce it. At no time did I tell Carl he was losing posting privileges nor did I hint that he might. </P>
He still has full posting privileges on TDR. </P>
-Ken </P>
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 03:05 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000002&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=2"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> While I realize that the full story will never be told, which is another issue, it seems to me to be poor management in some fashion that allows a minority to run one particular member offsite due to complaints.
A simple rule that keeps one newsgroup on track is: If you don't like the subject header, don't click on it. Complaining that the subject is not to your liking, but you read it anyway, is... well..... stupid. </P>
</P>
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Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">JNutter</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 334
From:Albuquerque, KITTY LITTER oops NM
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 03:19 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000003&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=3"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Carl:
first off i dont under stand the 2 emails.
Your gp page lists products, vendor and price. No one is forced or coerced to purchase the products from the listed vendors at the posted price. They can use another vendor and pay more, or less if they can find a vendor charging less. I havent been able too. It sounded like one repler was angry cause he wanted a PE-10 and you only had an EZ on your site.
In a related thread a few days ago I made mention of a few vendors hawking their wares in posts with their names in the sig block and suggested that they might be required to post their company name in their sig to alert newer members of their vested intrest in trying to perswade someone to purchase a particular product or service. I have posted threads and given opinions of some of the products and prices I have paid ( most positive but some negative, as per my experiences ).
I think the site people have a fine line to tread in keeping the forums fair and impartial. I think that if vendors were required to post their company names in the signature block instead of or in addition to their real names this would go far to the achievment of fairness.
Thanks to the gp's ( to the dismay of some ) I have lots of $. 02 left to deposit on TDR. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Shortshift</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 309
From:So. Cal. USA
Registered: Jun 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 08:09 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Shortshift" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Shortshift" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000004&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=4"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Looks like there's going to be alot of people redirecting their money Carl's way. Almost everyone loses. Dumb. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">WOWZY</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 372
From:EatMe, D/C
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-25-2000 10:20 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000005&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=5"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I for one will payback the hardwork that Carl has done for us by continuing to give him my buisness and encourage all members to do this not only for their own benefit but to cause the crybaby vendors some real pain in their wallets to teach them a lesson.
I think a boycott of the advertisers is in order. They do nothing for this site,but slow down loading of the TDR pages. I have never clicked on their advertisements and after this I never will. The reason is that I trust only members that have actually used the different products and give their opinions. I e-mail members sometimes if I see that a few have a particular product in their sig. This gives me a better and honest opinion that the advertisers don't give. </P>
I've had 100% success in my purchases, trusting the members, not the advertisers. </P>
The reason that the advertisements are still here (even after we've told them to up the membership fee to get rid of them) is someone has quit their job and is living off the advertisment money and is too lazy to get off the couch,eating chocolates to get a real job. </P>
Ahh! That felt good!! </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BigUgly</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 55
From:Beaufort, S. C. , C. S. A.
Registered: Dec 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 01:04 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BigUgly" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BigUgly" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000006&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=6"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> This stinks.
I joined TDR a little over a year ago and liked what I saw. I may have only about 40 some odd posts, but I'm a lurker dang it (and proud of it too!). All I can say about the recent trends in TDR Land, is that I don't like the way things have been rolling downhill lately. I used to not read the website section, but now I go right to it quicker than HVAC on Propane, I need the chuckles!
This news of Carl throwing in the towel has got my dander up. Now I'm considered a good Southern Gentleman, but I can get riled up. But I'm keeping my temper at bay today. Carl has set up many a good GP's for all of us. I have only used his GP's once or twice (I just ordered a VB and TC from Bill @ DTT and I don't remember if Carl set up the GP on the Jardine 4" that I got many moons ago). It will be a shame if we lose some of our contribuiting members (Carl, Doc, Scott1 to name a few). This is unfortunate, however, I still have a good BBS to go to, the SETDR site.
Well, have a good time yall, I'll see ya at <A HREF="http://www.setdr.org/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.setdr.org/</A> , Josiah Loverin
------------------
YP of SETDR
Y2K 2500, 4X4, Auto, Quad Cab, SWB, 4. 10, Black. VA Box, Line-X, PE Roll top bed cover, Stainless add-ons. Jardine 4". </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">duke</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 47
From:Grants Pass, OR
Registered: Dec 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 02:04 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=duke" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=duke" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000007&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=7"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I wish someone would explain to me why TDR has a policy of not alowing prices to be posted. The price of an item is as important as the horsepower it produces. Why no discussion of GP's? Who is this website for? What do I pay my $35 for? It's certainly not for four TDR mags a year. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">John</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 1417
From:Enumclaw,WA USA
Registered: Aug 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 09:49 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=John" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=John" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000008&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=8"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I would like to point out to the TDR management there are MANY, I REPEAT, MANY TDR members that purchase parts and accessories for their Rams through the group purchasing efforts initiated by Carl, THAT WOULD NEVER HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN PURCHASED FROM THESE VENDORS! The deal, AND ONLY THE DEAL SWAYED THEM TO MAKE THE PURCHASE! That's not always true, however, it's truer than you may want to believe! Take the ATS 3-piece exhaust manifold for instance; many members reported before the group purchase was initiated they felt the price was just too steep for a variety of reasons. MANY, MANY ATS manifolds were sold as a direct result of the group purchase. For that, I thank you Carl (even though I purchased mine prior to the group purchase
#ad).
To the other vendors that feel the need to retire off a few sales instead of making a profit through volume, lower profit sales... . and then whine to the TDR management... ... ..... well, let's just say I wish I knew who you were so I could make it a point NEVER to purchase anything from you in the future! And if I haven't so far, GOOD!
#ad</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 12-02-2000). ]
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
<TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="0" CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="95%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="4" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="100%"> <TBODY> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Barry</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 169
From:Granbury, Texas. USA
Registered: Mar 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 11:32 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Barry" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Barry" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000009&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=9"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Point man always gets it first. Thanx Carl. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 12:58 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000010&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=10"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Let me see if I can attempt to bring some closure to this unfortunate situation. This is a repost of a message I left in the "Attn: Forum Moderators and Poster alike. " thread on 11/08/2000 ( <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum6/HTML/000348.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum6/HTML/000348.html</A> - if you'd like to read the rest of it): <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
I'll do my best to try and explain the TDR's position here as I have attempted to do in the past. On the group purchase issue - there have been many complaints coming in from the members and vendor's regarding the group purchases being in the discussion forums. Robert was having to spend an inordinate amount of time (as in hours) every week dealing with the issue. This issue has gone on and on for many months and was not getting any better. That is why the guidelines were updated and why the new classifieds section was created just for the group purchases. As to what information gets posted on the classified section - that is up to the individual posting the group purchase. There is nothing in the guidelines stating that prices cannot be posted in the classified section, BTW. We are attempting to find a balance on this issue between the needs/wants of the members and the concerns of the vendors. Robert is also trying to increase the amount of traffic in the classified ads area so as to make it more productive for the membership as well. Also, with the group purchase classified section you can go there and see all of the group purchases all at once and not have to wade down through the product forum to pick them out.
The motivating factor behind the guidelines continues to be questioned. I can assure you from all of my conversations with Robert that he really and truly wants the group purchases to happen. He thinks it's a great idea, brings more traffic to the site, benefits the members, etc. However, an individual can only spend so much time dealing with an issue before it's costing him too much. That is why there has been continued attempts at compromise - the classifieds section is simply the latest attempt.
As to pricing discussions on the forums - there is no prohibition against members talking in general terms regarding prices they've paid and talking about good vendors, etc. The only flat out prohibition to pricing discussions regards vendors and group purchases. The problem here is simply a matter of time - would you rather Robert and the moderators spend all of our time dealing with problems, or would you rather we were able to do productive things to improve the membership experience? Believe me when I tell you that you get very sick of dealing with an issue over and over again for months on end. We have discussed the issues with group purchases previously in the forums as well, you didn't get the entire story because we are not about to air dirty laundry in public. The key here is compromise and balance. Unforetunately there is no way to make everyone happy so all we can do is try our best. Thank you in advance for your understanding.
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I have not been around this past week and a half because it's hunting season otherwise I would have posted to Carl in those messages a "Please see forum Guideline #5a" as I have been doing. I'm personal friends with Carl and I have done everything I could to help find a balance between all parties involved as I stated above. Carl has decided to halt his efforts on here on his own. As Ken said the TDR has not removed Carl's posting privileges and I for one would hope that Carl would continue to participate on the site outside of the group purchases. In the two messages he listed there I know that at least one of them is from a member of the TDR site not a moderator or TDR staff, and I'm not sure about the other one. Here are the relevant guidelines regarding group purchases and vendors: </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
5. 0 Group Purchases (lets be clear . . . this includes advertising, solicitation, and pricing). To provide members with an opportunity to interact in an appropriate forum, all group purchase activities will be conducted within a new area of the Classified Advertising section: "Group Purchases. " Group Purchases will not be conducted in any Discussion Forum. We respectfully request that these three simple rules be followed:
a. No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. The discussion of prices is best left off-line in a private e-mail to those with interest as noted in the appropriate area of the Classified Advertisements. Why? Because many people who visit our web site do not want to pay to read solicitations and sales pitches in our technical Discussion Forums. </P>
b. No group purchase or vendor promotion will imply that it has the TDRs endorsement nor will it imply any affiliation with the TDR. </P>
c. Group Purchases should be just that. If a group purchase if found to be nothing more than a commercial promotion, it will be deleted. </P>
6. 0 Vendor Participation (lets be clear . . . this includes advertising, solicitation, and pricing). For business interests, we have established an area in our Classified Advertising section for you to post your press release-type correspondence. This section is clearly labeled "Vendor Promotions. " Your information/new product introduction/parts close out, etc. will run for 30 days. Upon expiration, the information may be resubmitted after a 90-day period. This posting service is available only for advertisers of record with the TDR. Business card-type ads in the magazine are very cost effective. Contact the Advertising Manager, Scott Dalgleish, at scottdal@earthlink.net for details. </P>
a. Vendor input and commentary is welcomed in our Discussion Forums. Vendors have proven to provide insightful conversation and commentary. We respectfully request that these three simple rules be followed: </P>
b. No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. The discussion of prices is best left off-line in a private e-mail to those with interest as noted in the appropriate area of the Classified Advertisements. Why? Because many people who visit our web site do not want to pay to read solicitations and sales pitches in our technical Discussion Forums. </P>
c. No posting of the business web site or phone number in the Discussion Forums. Please see the Vendor Promotion area of the Classified Advertisements to post this type of information. </P>
d. Vendor participants must have their business name incorporated into their signature block.
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll try to get to each one of your issues: </P>
Max340: </P>
Carl had the opportunity to use the classifieds section and we were still trying to get him to comply with that, Carl has not been cut off by us. Many complaints were coming in saying that they were sick of the go to my group purchase page follow ups in a thread. If you wanted to read the threads in the product forums you'd run across them regularly and you didn't click on a group purchase thread. This is just a recap of some of the complaints I and TDR have received. </P>
Jnutter:
That message was not from the TDR staff or moderators, I don't understand it either personally. If you look at guideline #6d above you'll see that we did incorporate requiring vendors to put their business name in their signature into the guidelines and we have been working on getting vendors to comply - it takes time to get through them all! You'll note in another thread that Bill Kondolay mentioned that. </P>
Shortshift: </P>
Both myself and from my conversations with Robert I believe he also wishes Carl all the luck in the world in his contining efforts and continued success of his website! He is still free to post his group purchases in the classifieds section and converse in the forums as long as he is a member. </P>
Wowzy:
I hope that a boycott of the advertisers is not necessary because they have not caused this problem. I agree 100% with your thoughts of getting opinions from other members, etc as I do just that and return the favor as well. When you consider removing the ads by raising your membership fee you have to take into consideration that your membership fee is for the magazine and the website is an additional benefit on top of it. The TDR has completely absorbed the cost of the website without raising the subscription price. The advertising is a benefit to the advertisers but it isn't only the 5500 registered users they are trying to get to it's all the people that look and read the site but don't register. The ads are a fact of life on commercial website and do help offset some of the costs of running the site. When you talk about someone quitting their job, etc I'm assuming you must be talking about Robert the TDR editor and owner. The TDR is his job, he spent a significant amount of money getting it off the ground, employs quite a few people, etc. That's hardly lazy IMO, and he deserves to make some money from his efforts! </P>
BigUgly:
I hope you don't disappear and take into consideration some of my points given here before deciding to leave permanently. Doc's situation was a misunderstanding and has been resolved and Scott1 left the site by my understanding because of the bickering of the users not what the moderators or TDR staff had done. I will still see ya on the SETDR and GLTDR sites if not I guess. </P>
duke:
The policy of no price posting is only in reference to vendors as I stated in the above message. </P>
John:
As I stated above we were trying to continue the group purchases simply in their proper place. The complaints were coming in mostly from users rather than vendors. </P>
Ok guys, I've got my flak jacket and helmet on with my fireproof suit over the top of it so I'm ready for the flaming
#ad
- remember I'm one of you guys! I hope this will help explain the situation a little better. Let's try and put this behind us and move on to bigger and better things! </P>
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
President of the GLTDR
(All around good guy??)#ad
</P>
[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 11-26-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">JNutter</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 334
From:Albuquerque, KITTY LITTER oops NM
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 02:26 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000011&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=11"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Steve:
I Think that you gave a very good explaination. I think if the new guide lines are followed that every one involved,[ vendors, GP Gurus, and members ] will have a fair shake. Moderation is the key and you are doing a fine job of navigating that fine line.
Thank you: </P>
Jack </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Kondolay</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 260
From:Sardis B. C. Canada
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 03:03 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Kondolay" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Kondolay" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000012&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=12"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Hey Guys ,
Here are my thoughts as I read all of your opinions. </P>
I think because we really dont understand what the problem is, we tend to speculate. </P>
Now as a vendor, it is my choice to participate or not to participate in group purchases.
To participate as a vendor has its positives and negatives, we choose to participate based on the fact that you the TDR members helped us build our business. We consider the group purchases a little bit of payback it also helps us with exposure. This group purchase opportunity is open to all vendors that wish to participate. For the record is not even a large % of our business. Most of you guys already have products from various companies that you chose to purchase. </P>
On the negative side vendors with dealers like myself have to explain to dealers why we are selling our product at less than our own suggested retail price. Heres how we personally handle that, when we sell our product to a dealer we do not tell them what they must sell the product for as we know that geographical location, shop overhead, etc. is factored in their product cost. My point is simply this, the TDR member consumer is a very small percentage of people in the entire market. For most of the vendors on this site, the TDR is not their sole source of advertising so I cant see why members using their membership for better pricing has caused such an uproar. </P>
So I guess all things considered as a vendor I just dont see the big deal. </P>
As a TDR member is it my choice to read a thread or skip it, to respond if I have comments or ignore it. All the above are choices I have at my disposal. </P>
As a TDR member I am personally not interested about the Gore vs Bush debates as it is not relevant to geographical location, does that mean if I complain it would be gone and no more political debates . Common now guys if I dont like the opra show I change the channel, so lets be sensible we are not little children that need to be protected from Carl. So are we to go back to the good old days where 275 injectors were $499. 00? Oops , that was not the good old days for the members was it. </P>
So to conclude speaking as a TDR member I dont see the big deal with group purchases, if I dont want to read about them I dont. </P>
Bill
Diesel Transmission Technology </P>
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 169
From:Granbury, Texas. USA
Registered: Mar 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 11:32 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Barry" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Barry" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000009&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=9"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Point man always gets it first. Thanx Carl. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 12:58 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000010&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=10"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Let me see if I can attempt to bring some closure to this unfortunate situation. This is a repost of a message I left in the "Attn: Forum Moderators and Poster alike. " thread on 11/08/2000 ( <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum6/HTML/000348.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum6/HTML/000348.html</A> - if you'd like to read the rest of it): <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
I'll do my best to try and explain the TDR's position here as I have attempted to do in the past. On the group purchase issue - there have been many complaints coming in from the members and vendor's regarding the group purchases being in the discussion forums. Robert was having to spend an inordinate amount of time (as in hours) every week dealing with the issue. This issue has gone on and on for many months and was not getting any better. That is why the guidelines were updated and why the new classifieds section was created just for the group purchases. As to what information gets posted on the classified section - that is up to the individual posting the group purchase. There is nothing in the guidelines stating that prices cannot be posted in the classified section, BTW. We are attempting to find a balance on this issue between the needs/wants of the members and the concerns of the vendors. Robert is also trying to increase the amount of traffic in the classified ads area so as to make it more productive for the membership as well. Also, with the group purchase classified section you can go there and see all of the group purchases all at once and not have to wade down through the product forum to pick them out.
The motivating factor behind the guidelines continues to be questioned. I can assure you from all of my conversations with Robert that he really and truly wants the group purchases to happen. He thinks it's a great idea, brings more traffic to the site, benefits the members, etc. However, an individual can only spend so much time dealing with an issue before it's costing him too much. That is why there has been continued attempts at compromise - the classifieds section is simply the latest attempt.
As to pricing discussions on the forums - there is no prohibition against members talking in general terms regarding prices they've paid and talking about good vendors, etc. The only flat out prohibition to pricing discussions regards vendors and group purchases. The problem here is simply a matter of time - would you rather Robert and the moderators spend all of our time dealing with problems, or would you rather we were able to do productive things to improve the membership experience? Believe me when I tell you that you get very sick of dealing with an issue over and over again for months on end. We have discussed the issues with group purchases previously in the forums as well, you didn't get the entire story because we are not about to air dirty laundry in public. The key here is compromise and balance. Unforetunately there is no way to make everyone happy so all we can do is try our best. Thank you in advance for your understanding.
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I have not been around this past week and a half because it's hunting season otherwise I would have posted to Carl in those messages a "Please see forum Guideline #5a" as I have been doing. I'm personal friends with Carl and I have done everything I could to help find a balance between all parties involved as I stated above. Carl has decided to halt his efforts on here on his own. As Ken said the TDR has not removed Carl's posting privileges and I for one would hope that Carl would continue to participate on the site outside of the group purchases. In the two messages he listed there I know that at least one of them is from a member of the TDR site not a moderator or TDR staff, and I'm not sure about the other one. Here are the relevant guidelines regarding group purchases and vendors: </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
5. 0 Group Purchases (lets be clear . . . this includes advertising, solicitation, and pricing). To provide members with an opportunity to interact in an appropriate forum, all group purchase activities will be conducted within a new area of the Classified Advertising section: "Group Purchases. " Group Purchases will not be conducted in any Discussion Forum. We respectfully request that these three simple rules be followed:
a. No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. The discussion of prices is best left off-line in a private e-mail to those with interest as noted in the appropriate area of the Classified Advertisements. Why? Because many people who visit our web site do not want to pay to read solicitations and sales pitches in our technical Discussion Forums. </P>
b. No group purchase or vendor promotion will imply that it has the TDRs endorsement nor will it imply any affiliation with the TDR. </P>
c. Group Purchases should be just that. If a group purchase if found to be nothing more than a commercial promotion, it will be deleted. </P>
6. 0 Vendor Participation (lets be clear . . . this includes advertising, solicitation, and pricing). For business interests, we have established an area in our Classified Advertising section for you to post your press release-type correspondence. This section is clearly labeled "Vendor Promotions. " Your information/new product introduction/parts close out, etc. will run for 30 days. Upon expiration, the information may be resubmitted after a 90-day period. This posting service is available only for advertisers of record with the TDR. Business card-type ads in the magazine are very cost effective. Contact the Advertising Manager, Scott Dalgleish, at scottdal@earthlink.net for details. </P>
a. Vendor input and commentary is welcomed in our Discussion Forums. Vendors have proven to provide insightful conversation and commentary. We respectfully request that these three simple rules be followed: </P>
b. No pricing discussions or group purchase discussions allowed on the TDR Discussion Forums. The discussion of prices is best left off-line in a private e-mail to those with interest as noted in the appropriate area of the Classified Advertisements. Why? Because many people who visit our web site do not want to pay to read solicitations and sales pitches in our technical Discussion Forums. </P>
c. No posting of the business web site or phone number in the Discussion Forums. Please see the Vendor Promotion area of the Classified Advertisements to post this type of information. </P>
d. Vendor participants must have their business name incorporated into their signature block.
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll try to get to each one of your issues: </P>
Max340: </P>
Carl had the opportunity to use the classifieds section and we were still trying to get him to comply with that, Carl has not been cut off by us. Many complaints were coming in saying that they were sick of the go to my group purchase page follow ups in a thread. If you wanted to read the threads in the product forums you'd run across them regularly and you didn't click on a group purchase thread. This is just a recap of some of the complaints I and TDR have received. </P>
Jnutter:
That message was not from the TDR staff or moderators, I don't understand it either personally. If you look at guideline #6d above you'll see that we did incorporate requiring vendors to put their business name in their signature into the guidelines and we have been working on getting vendors to comply - it takes time to get through them all! You'll note in another thread that Bill Kondolay mentioned that. </P>
Shortshift: </P>
Both myself and from my conversations with Robert I believe he also wishes Carl all the luck in the world in his contining efforts and continued success of his website! He is still free to post his group purchases in the classifieds section and converse in the forums as long as he is a member. </P>
Wowzy:
I hope that a boycott of the advertisers is not necessary because they have not caused this problem. I agree 100% with your thoughts of getting opinions from other members, etc as I do just that and return the favor as well. When you consider removing the ads by raising your membership fee you have to take into consideration that your membership fee is for the magazine and the website is an additional benefit on top of it. The TDR has completely absorbed the cost of the website without raising the subscription price. The advertising is a benefit to the advertisers but it isn't only the 5500 registered users they are trying to get to it's all the people that look and read the site but don't register. The ads are a fact of life on commercial website and do help offset some of the costs of running the site. When you talk about someone quitting their job, etc I'm assuming you must be talking about Robert the TDR editor and owner. The TDR is his job, he spent a significant amount of money getting it off the ground, employs quite a few people, etc. That's hardly lazy IMO, and he deserves to make some money from his efforts! </P>
BigUgly:
I hope you don't disappear and take into consideration some of my points given here before deciding to leave permanently. Doc's situation was a misunderstanding and has been resolved and Scott1 left the site by my understanding because of the bickering of the users not what the moderators or TDR staff had done. I will still see ya on the SETDR and GLTDR sites if not I guess. </P>
duke:
The policy of no price posting is only in reference to vendors as I stated in the above message. </P>
John:
As I stated above we were trying to continue the group purchases simply in their proper place. The complaints were coming in mostly from users rather than vendors. </P>
Ok guys, I've got my flak jacket and helmet on with my fireproof suit over the top of it so I'm ready for the flaming
#ad- remember I'm one of you guys! I hope this will help explain the situation a little better. Let's try and put this behind us and move on to bigger and better things! </P>
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
President of the GLTDR
(All around good guy??)
#ad</P>
[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 11-26-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">JNutter</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 334
From:Albuquerque, KITTY LITTER oops NM
Registered: Aug 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 02:26 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=JNutter" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000011&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=11"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Steve:
I Think that you gave a very good explaination. I think if the new guide lines are followed that every one involved,[ vendors, GP Gurus, and members ] will have a fair shake. Moderation is the key and you are doing a fine job of navigating that fine line.
Thank you: </P>
Jack </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Kondolay</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 260
From:Sardis B. C. Canada
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 03:03 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Kondolay" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Kondolay" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000012&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=12"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Hey Guys ,
Here are my thoughts as I read all of your opinions. </P>
I think because we really dont understand what the problem is, we tend to speculate. </P>
Now as a vendor, it is my choice to participate or not to participate in group purchases.
To participate as a vendor has its positives and negatives, we choose to participate based on the fact that you the TDR members helped us build our business. We consider the group purchases a little bit of payback it also helps us with exposure. This group purchase opportunity is open to all vendors that wish to participate. For the record is not even a large % of our business. Most of you guys already have products from various companies that you chose to purchase. </P>
On the negative side vendors with dealers like myself have to explain to dealers why we are selling our product at less than our own suggested retail price. Heres how we personally handle that, when we sell our product to a dealer we do not tell them what they must sell the product for as we know that geographical location, shop overhead, etc. is factored in their product cost. My point is simply this, the TDR member consumer is a very small percentage of people in the entire market. For most of the vendors on this site, the TDR is not their sole source of advertising so I cant see why members using their membership for better pricing has caused such an uproar. </P>
So I guess all things considered as a vendor I just dont see the big deal. </P>
As a TDR member is it my choice to read a thread or skip it, to respond if I have comments or ignore it. All the above are choices I have at my disposal. </P>
As a TDR member I am personally not interested about the Gore vs Bush debates as it is not relevant to geographical location, does that mean if I complain it would be gone and no more political debates . Common now guys if I dont like the opra show I change the channel, so lets be sensible we are not little children that need to be protected from Carl. So are we to go back to the good old days where 275 injectors were $499. 00? Oops , that was not the good old days for the members was it. </P>
So to conclude speaking as a TDR member I dont see the big deal with group purchases, if I dont want to read about them I dont. </P>
Bill
Diesel Transmission Technology </P>
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
<TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="0" CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="95%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="4" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="100%"> <TBODY> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">MGM</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 547
From:Western Pennsylvania
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 07:36 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=MGM" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=MGM" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000013&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=13"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thanks Steve, for talking to us like we matter. For your pleasant attitude, I will not blast you. I can not argue with most of what you said, but I will be watching for an opening in the future.
I just can't help it.
Bill, some very good points.
Gene
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">WOWZY</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 372
From:EatMe, D/C
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 08:48 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000014&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=14"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thx for the explaination Steve and I understand your hard work as well.
I know that Robert has done overtime to make this site better,but when the members cry foul and nothing is done about it... Sorry Rob for calling you a couch potater. </P>
What I mean to say is, that when someone gets the shaft for his efforts to help us out,it's hard to agree with it when we see a blatant advertisement staring us in the face on every page. </P>
I pay for movie channels on my satellite because I hate commercials. I would gladly pay more to not see them on the TDR and I know that others would to. </P>
Now why would a member that's not affiliated with one of the vendors do any complaining?
And if he's not affiliated with them,why didn't you guys just blow him off as just someone that is no more than just a complainer with an unhappy childhood? </P>
Something's rotten about all that!
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Patrick Hayden</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 10
From:westlake village, ca
Registered: Nov 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-27-2000 01:13 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Patrick+Hayden" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Patrick+Hayden" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000015&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=15"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bill I totally agree with you and it is nice to hear from the other side on this. I have yet to participate in a g/p but trust me I will purchase a DTT t/c and v/b in the near future (before years end). Not only because of the g/p on them but because of the testimonials of other members.
NOTE TO OTHER vendors and manufactures, take notes from Bill, you could learn somthing. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
From
ost Falls, Idaho USA
Registered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 02:25 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000016&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=16"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bravo to Bill Kondolay and Wowzy!
I couldn't agree with you more! </P>
It seem to me that Robert Patton either has something against Carl or want to try and corner the market. </P>
If I don't want to read something, I don't go to that site! For Robert and the administrators to blast Carl for helping the TDR membership and not offending the majority is TOTALLY WRONG! </P>
I have just purchased the last product I will ever purchase from Geno's and any other vendors that has promoted this action toward Carl, as I learn of them! I know they could care less about my purchases, and myself or the TDR membership certainly is not going to break them by not purchasing their products, but it is the principle of it! </P>
I know that there are many who feel the same way. Lets unite and let our feeling be known! </P>
Maybe it time for someone to set up a NEW Dodge Cummins Diesel site and "OPEN FORUM"! </P>
Speaking of that doesn't KatDiesel have a forum? </P>
<A HREF="http://pub12.ezboard.com/bwwcd2sgrouppurchaseforum" TARGET="_blank">http://pub12. ezboard.com/bwwcd2sgrouppurchaseforum</A> </P>
This site is just in its infant state but it's a start. </P>
[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 11-28-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 01:21 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000017&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=17"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Big Bob, Patton has nothing against Carl and has done his best to reach a compromise on the GP issue.
Patton has nothing to do with Carl leaving, that is Carl's decision alone. </P>
You should address your words to the members that complain about Carl's activities. You should also bear in mind that the message boards are not a sales area. </P>
However, I agree that the membership would benefit by being better informed on what goes on so posts like yours are not needed. It is unfortunate that TDR chose what it perceived as "high ground" in the conflict and made itself a target for activities that rendered the polite approach inadequate. I too have put pointed questions to TDR staff and have at least been given enough info that I am willing to wait out my membership. </P>
In short, if you think TDR wants to have a split in membership, complaints, and public displays of members leaving due to those complaints, you are incorrect. However, given the advanced state of the situation, it would benfit TDR to do some damage control addressing the issue. And that includes telling the truth about the "dirty laundry" they wish to avoid airing; its time for them to hold those responsible for the conflict accountable.
</P>
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Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
Fromost Falls, Idaho USA
Registered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:04 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000018&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=18"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Max340,
I personally don't see anything wrong with what Carl has done. He has kept us abreast of the best pricing on accessories and performance parts. I have not found his methods offensive. Each and every one of us click our mouse to go to any site we want to. Those who have a problem with GP's don't have to go to Carl's GP's. </P>
The last information I got from TDR was that there was 2 complaints about something or someway that Carl was posting. Come on, 2 complaints out of over 5500 members?! Why would TDR jump on Carl for 2 complaints if there wasn't something else going on? </P>
I've read most of the BS that has been posted about Carl and TDR's reasoning for their actions, and it is BS! Come on give me a break! There is definately something going on with the management of TDR (Robert and administrators) and Carl that we are not being told about. </P>
Come on TDR, I feel like a mushroom, (being kept in the dark and fed s***!). </P>
Let get this out in the open in PLAIN English so everyone understands. </P>
How about a survey of the members to see what the members want?! Let the members make the decision on Group Purchases. Don't use the excuse that the members don't own TDR site, I know they don't. But how does? Robert Patton! And who make the decision of what is allowed to be posted? Robert Patton. </P>
Come on Robert! Let see what the members say! </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Lins</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 504
From:Wharton, TX USA
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:18 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000019&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=19"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> <HR> Originally posted by Max340:
It is unfortunate that TDR chose what it perceived as "high ground" in the conflict and made itself a target for activities that rendered the polite approach inadequate. ... However, given the advanced state of the situation, it would benfit TDR to do some damage control addressing the issue. And that includes telling the truth about the "dirty laundry" they wish to avoid airing; its time for them to hold those responsible for the conflict accountable.
[/B] </P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, except that this matter should have been brought out in the open immediately. We are (mostly
#ad
) adults, paying to participate, and deserve to be treated as such. TDR's actions, however intended, had the appearance both of having something to hide and of treating us as children. </P>
I have reserved judgment for the most part while awaiting further information. However, Mr. Patton's threats to the membership and Mr. Payne's snide comments about Carl offended me greatly. Hopefully they both have learned something about how customers are to be treated and will not repeat their mistakes. Gentlemen, the "dirty laundry" belongs to all of us, and sunlight is the best disinfectant. </P>
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Bill Lins Wharton, TX 98 2500 QC SLT,12 (the CORRECT # of)valves,NV4500,3. 54 LSD,Manik grille guard,Semi-Psychotty Air,Amsoil everywhere, Reading aluminum utility body and bumper,Optima yellow tops- silencer ring & muffler stolen. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:37 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000020&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=20"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bob, you don't see anything wrong because you don't know all the story. Further, Carl posted pointers to sales items in forums where the new guidelines specifically forbade them. Like it or not, thats not following published rules. Keep in mind, CARL is the one yanking himself, not TDR.
There were far more than 2 complaints as far as I know. I do not agree with the complaints, but the number WAS high enough to warrant change. </P>
Yes, the whole story is not being told. If it were, you would find that things are not exactly as they seem. </P>
A solution was offered, and it was not adhered to. I do not agree that there was a problem, and I have yet to find the logic to the complaints. However, once a solution is in place, violating the solution is not cool. </P>
Bill, I agree totally with your statement. It should have been open to the membership. If the solution had worked, nothing would need be discussed at this point, and no one would have any bad words... but the solution did not work. </P>
I agree, Mr. Payne was IMO, out of bounds. Locking down the one thread effectively ending discussion (or attempting to) was also a condescending move on Mr. Pattons part. </P>
And ultimately, yes, its time the tale was told. I will be honest and say that I have enough of the story to know that this thing is not the fault of one side or the other. But to hide this is a bad thing, and benefits no one.
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 547
From:Western Pennsylvania
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 07:36 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=MGM" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=MGM" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000013&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=13"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thanks Steve, for talking to us like we matter. For your pleasant attitude, I will not blast you. I can not argue with most of what you said, but I will be watching for an opening in the future.
I just can't help it.
Bill, some very good points.
Gene
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">WOWZY</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 372
From:EatMe, D/C
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-26-2000 08:48 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=WOWZY" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000014&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=14"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thx for the explaination Steve and I understand your hard work as well.
I know that Robert has done overtime to make this site better,but when the members cry foul and nothing is done about it... Sorry Rob for calling you a couch potater. </P>
What I mean to say is, that when someone gets the shaft for his efforts to help us out,it's hard to agree with it when we see a blatant advertisement staring us in the face on every page. </P>
I pay for movie channels on my satellite because I hate commercials. I would gladly pay more to not see them on the TDR and I know that others would to. </P>
Now why would a member that's not affiliated with one of the vendors do any complaining?
And if he's not affiliated with them,why didn't you guys just blow him off as just someone that is no more than just a complainer with an unhappy childhood? </P>
Something's rotten about all that!
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Patrick Hayden</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 10
From:westlake village, ca
Registered: Nov 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-27-2000 01:13 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Patrick+Hayden" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Patrick+Hayden" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000015&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=15"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bill I totally agree with you and it is nice to hear from the other side on this. I have yet to participate in a g/p but trust me I will purchase a DTT t/c and v/b in the near future (before years end). Not only because of the g/p on them but because of the testimonials of other members.
NOTE TO OTHER vendors and manufactures, take notes from Bill, you could learn somthing. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
From
ost Falls, Idaho USARegistered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 02:25 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000016&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=16"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bravo to Bill Kondolay and Wowzy!
I couldn't agree with you more! </P>
It seem to me that Robert Patton either has something against Carl or want to try and corner the market. </P>
If I don't want to read something, I don't go to that site! For Robert and the administrators to blast Carl for helping the TDR membership and not offending the majority is TOTALLY WRONG! </P>
I have just purchased the last product I will ever purchase from Geno's and any other vendors that has promoted this action toward Carl, as I learn of them! I know they could care less about my purchases, and myself or the TDR membership certainly is not going to break them by not purchasing their products, but it is the principle of it! </P>
I know that there are many who feel the same way. Lets unite and let our feeling be known! </P>
Maybe it time for someone to set up a NEW Dodge Cummins Diesel site and "OPEN FORUM"! </P>
Speaking of that doesn't KatDiesel have a forum? </P>
<A HREF="http://pub12.ezboard.com/bwwcd2sgrouppurchaseforum" TARGET="_blank">http://pub12. ezboard.com/bwwcd2sgrouppurchaseforum</A> </P>
This site is just in its infant state but it's a start. </P>
[This message has been edited by BIG BOB (edited 11-28-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 01:21 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000017&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=17"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Big Bob, Patton has nothing against Carl and has done his best to reach a compromise on the GP issue.
Patton has nothing to do with Carl leaving, that is Carl's decision alone. </P>
You should address your words to the members that complain about Carl's activities. You should also bear in mind that the message boards are not a sales area. </P>
However, I agree that the membership would benefit by being better informed on what goes on so posts like yours are not needed. It is unfortunate that TDR chose what it perceived as "high ground" in the conflict and made itself a target for activities that rendered the polite approach inadequate. I too have put pointed questions to TDR staff and have at least been given enough info that I am willing to wait out my membership. </P>
In short, if you think TDR wants to have a split in membership, complaints, and public displays of members leaving due to those complaints, you are incorrect. However, given the advanced state of the situation, it would benfit TDR to do some damage control addressing the issue. And that includes telling the truth about the "dirty laundry" they wish to avoid airing; its time for them to hold those responsible for the conflict accountable.
</P>
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Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
From
ost Falls, Idaho USARegistered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:04 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000018&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=18"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Max340,
I personally don't see anything wrong with what Carl has done. He has kept us abreast of the best pricing on accessories and performance parts. I have not found his methods offensive. Each and every one of us click our mouse to go to any site we want to. Those who have a problem with GP's don't have to go to Carl's GP's. </P>
The last information I got from TDR was that there was 2 complaints about something or someway that Carl was posting. Come on, 2 complaints out of over 5500 members?! Why would TDR jump on Carl for 2 complaints if there wasn't something else going on? </P>
I've read most of the BS that has been posted about Carl and TDR's reasoning for their actions, and it is BS! Come on give me a break! There is definately something going on with the management of TDR (Robert and administrators) and Carl that we are not being told about. </P>
Come on TDR, I feel like a mushroom, (being kept in the dark and fed s***!). </P>
Let get this out in the open in PLAIN English so everyone understands. </P>
How about a survey of the members to see what the members want?! Let the members make the decision on Group Purchases. Don't use the excuse that the members don't own TDR site, I know they don't. But how does? Robert Patton! And who make the decision of what is allowed to be posted? Robert Patton. </P>
Come on Robert! Let see what the members say! </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Lins</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 504
From:Wharton, TX USA
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:18 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000019&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=19"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> <HR> Originally posted by Max340:
It is unfortunate that TDR chose what it perceived as "high ground" in the conflict and made itself a target for activities that rendered the polite approach inadequate. ... However, given the advanced state of the situation, it would benfit TDR to do some damage control addressing the issue. And that includes telling the truth about the "dirty laundry" they wish to avoid airing; its time for them to hold those responsible for the conflict accountable.
[/B] </P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, except that this matter should have been brought out in the open immediately. We are (mostly
#ad) adults, paying to participate, and deserve to be treated as such. TDR's actions, however intended, had the appearance both of having something to hide and of treating us as children. </P>
I have reserved judgment for the most part while awaiting further information. However, Mr. Patton's threats to the membership and Mr. Payne's snide comments about Carl offended me greatly. Hopefully they both have learned something about how customers are to be treated and will not repeat their mistakes. Gentlemen, the "dirty laundry" belongs to all of us, and sunlight is the best disinfectant. </P>
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Bill Lins Wharton, TX 98 2500 QC SLT,12 (the CORRECT # of)valves,NV4500,3. 54 LSD,Manik grille guard,Semi-Psychotty Air,Amsoil everywhere, Reading aluminum utility body and bumper,Optima yellow tops- silencer ring & muffler stolen. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Max340</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 174
From:Central Pa and Md Eastern Shore
Registered: May 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-28-2000 11:37 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Max340" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000020&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=20"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Bob, you don't see anything wrong because you don't know all the story. Further, Carl posted pointers to sales items in forums where the new guidelines specifically forbade them. Like it or not, thats not following published rules. Keep in mind, CARL is the one yanking himself, not TDR.
There were far more than 2 complaints as far as I know. I do not agree with the complaints, but the number WAS high enough to warrant change. </P>
Yes, the whole story is not being told. If it were, you would find that things are not exactly as they seem. </P>
A solution was offered, and it was not adhered to. I do not agree that there was a problem, and I have yet to find the logic to the complaints. However, once a solution is in place, violating the solution is not cool. </P>
Bill, I agree totally with your statement. It should have been open to the membership. If the solution had worked, nothing would need be discussed at this point, and no one would have any bad words... but the solution did not work. </P>
I agree, Mr. Payne was IMO, out of bounds. Locking down the one thread effectively ending discussion (or attempting to) was also a condescending move on Mr. Pattons part. </P>
And ultimately, yes, its time the tale was told. I will be honest and say that I have enough of the story to know that this thing is not the fault of one side or the other. But to hide this is a bad thing, and benefits no one.
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
<TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="0" CELLSPACING="0" WIDTH="95%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="4" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="100%"> <TBODY> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Phil Johnson</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial"SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 33
From:Chico, Calif, USA
Registered: Feb 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 03:26 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Phil+Johnson" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Phil+Johnson" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000021&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=21"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Power wagon has torked my butt. This will be my last year of $35 for no respect!
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98 Quad Cab 4X4 Cummins PAID WAY TOO MUCH$$$$$$$$ Automatic Totally loaded Minus fuel sender plus right brake pull, no extra charge! K&N filter, Line X spray on liner that chips everytime I haul something, WORTHLESS CHRYSLER 7/100,000 WARANTY, First name basis with Enterprise Rent a Car and my local AAA tow truck driver. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 08:24 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000022&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=22"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> See this post - <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum1/HTML/002947.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum1/HTML/002947.html</A> for what Phil is talking about. One of his messages was moved from the 12v forum to the other forum.
-Steve
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 12:56 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000023&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=23"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I'm writing this as a somewhat impartial observer and I've cleared this message with the involved parties as well. First of all let me say that Carl and I are friends and that I've tried everything I could to try to help find a middle ground here between all the parties involved. Also, he decided to stop posting on the TDR by his own decision not because the TDR asked him to.
The group purchase story is a long one and there have been many attempts to reach a compromise. First of all there have been complaints coming in for quite some time now. The vast majority of those complaints have come from users not vendors. </P>
The group purchases started sometime around the middle of June I believe and there were some vendor squabbles but nothing that involved the TDR. Sometime in early september after receiving a number of complaints from users the TDR asked him to limit the group purchases to 2 at a time and then later one per month so that there weren't so many going on at once - which was the biggest complaint. In all fairness, he recalls the conversation differently. From that point on there were a series of misunderstandings over those agreements. The TDR staff was spending a significant amount of time dealing with issues over the group purchase issue as in hours each week, as was I - this trend continues as evidenced by this post. </P>
Complaints continued to come in from both users and vendors. A website was created for the group purchases in early october and Carl was putting up messages advertising his site in a lot of messages on the TDR forums. There were many complaints from users about these ad's. The TDR staff and moderators set about to create a new set of guidelines that would be fair to all parties involved, vendors, group purchases, and the users - they were posted on Oct 23rd. A seperate area for the group purchases and another one for vendor promotions was created in the classified section that would be a free for all - they could post as many deals as they wanted and post the prices and all if they wished. It would also allow other vendors to offer better prices for members if they wished in that manner if they called to complain the TDR staff could simply tell them to post their promotion in the vendors promotion area. As a balance it was suggested/asked that there would be no vendor promotions or group purchase discussions in the forums. Members could discuss prices they've paid, etc however. We also decided at that point as moderators to simply put a Please see forum guideline #xx in the post if it was outside the guidelines. An example was this exchange on the board in this thread (just cutting and pasting from that)- <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001936.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001936.html</A> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-01-2000 06:06 PM
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Go check out the price i got us on the webasto!
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WWCD2 HOME PAGE
Steve St. Laurent
Administrator
Posts: 849
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999
posted 11-02-2000 09:19 PM
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Carl, please see forum guideline #5a - <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/guidelines.htm" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/guidelines.htm</A> </P>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-03-2000 12:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Steve OOPs
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WWCD2 HOME PAGE
</P>
and then </P>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-14-2000 09:40 PM
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check out the price on Webasto
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WWCD2 HOME PAGE
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
he got another one on <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001965.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001965.html</A> , and <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/000729.html"TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/000729.html</A> . At this point the complaints were coming almost exclusively from users. I myself got 10 complaints in one week. The 2 complaints spoken of by Big Bob were the complaints that Ken had received that week alone. If you read through <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum8/HTML/000912.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum8/HTML/000912.html</A> it will explain the situation at that point and that Carl was reinstated. He asked at that point that we allow it to die down for the good of the TDR. The 3 threads that Ken posted at the top of this were posted since that time and Ken simply sent him a reminder in a private email that those threads did not meet the guidelines. He at that point decided to stop posting on the TDR. No further action has been taken on either part. We still would like to see him participate in the forums and do the group purchases but simply ask that he post them in the classifieds section and not discuss them on the forums. He feels for now that it's best for us to go our seperate ways. </P>
We are back full circle to the root of the problem from the TDR's perspective: an inordinate amount of time was being spent on non-productive issues. We tried to make the forum guidelines fair for all parties involved. The guidelines on this site are very lax and very loosely enforced especially if you compare it to other commercial sites out there. If everyone would try to abide by the guidelines we could maintain a productive and insightful web site instead of the continued non-productive discussion around this topic. Hopefully this explanation of the situation will allow us to put this behind us and move on. </P>
The TDR has had and always will have a policy that if you become unhappy with your subscription at any time that they will refund the balance of your subscription. </P>
Well I still have my flak jacket and helmet on with my fireproof suit over the top of it so I'm ready for the flaming#ad
!
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
(still an all around good guy??)
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BV</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 828
From:Beavercreek, Oregon
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 03:45 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BV" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BV" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000024&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=24"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> So Steve - How's the Wife and Daughter? BTW - Your doing a great job.
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'99, 2500, QC, SLT, LWB, 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 3. 5xlsd, tow pac, HD tcase, tow mirrors, camper pac. </P>
Alias: Martin Allen Bursell (posted per guidlines) </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Doc Tinker</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 880
From:Waterford, MI, US
Registered: Nov 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 05:53 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Doc+Tinker" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Doc+Tinker" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000025&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=25"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thanks, Steve for the simple explanation. Too bad we couldn't have seen it put that way earlier.
<FONT COLOR="#000080"><STRONG>Doc</STRONG>
Secretary: <A HREF="http://www.gltdr.org/" TARGET="_blank">Great Lakes TDR</A> <FONT COLOR="black">B. A. D. Boys
<FONT COLOR="#990033"><STRONG>Ram Fast - Dream Hard</STRONG> </FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
P. S. - funny how the wrong word can change the meaning.#ad
</P>
[This message has been edited by Doc Tinker (edited 11-29-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 09:39 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000026&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=26"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> The whole family is doing great BV, thanks for asking. Sam is 10 months old and about to walk any day now, you can see pics of her at <A HREF="http://my.voyager.net/stevest/baby.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://my. voyager.net/stevest/baby.htm</A> - she is my pride and joy. Wendy is enjoying being a stay at home mom and taking care of the homestead. I'm a very proud father and husband!!
-Steve
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
Fromost Falls, Idaho USA
Registered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-30-2000 12:36 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000027&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=27"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Steve,
Thanks for the info of what has lead up to this. </P>
But I do have a question concerning the complaints. How different members have filed complaints about Carl's posting? I'm not talking about repeat complaints, I talking about each member that has complained including vendors. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Lins</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 504
From:Wharton, TX USA
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-30-2000 12:49 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000028&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=28"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Now see, that wasn't so hard, was it?#ad
Thanks, Steve- good work. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial"SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 33
From:Chico, Calif, USA
Registered: Feb 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 03:26 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Phil+Johnson" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Phil+Johnson" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000021&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=21"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Power wagon has torked my butt. This will be my last year of $35 for no respect!
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98 Quad Cab 4X4 Cummins PAID WAY TOO MUCH$$$$$$$$ Automatic Totally loaded Minus fuel sender plus right brake pull, no extra charge! K&N filter, Line X spray on liner that chips everytime I haul something, WORTHLESS CHRYSLER 7/100,000 WARANTY, First name basis with Enterprise Rent a Car and my local AAA tow truck driver. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 08:24 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000022&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=22"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> See this post - <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum1/HTML/002947.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum1/HTML/002947.html</A> for what Phil is talking about. One of his messages was moved from the 12v forum to the other forum.
-Steve
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 12:56 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000023&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=23"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> I'm writing this as a somewhat impartial observer and I've cleared this message with the involved parties as well. First of all let me say that Carl and I are friends and that I've tried everything I could to try to help find a middle ground here between all the parties involved. Also, he decided to stop posting on the TDR by his own decision not because the TDR asked him to.
The group purchase story is a long one and there have been many attempts to reach a compromise. First of all there have been complaints coming in for quite some time now. The vast majority of those complaints have come from users not vendors. </P>
The group purchases started sometime around the middle of June I believe and there were some vendor squabbles but nothing that involved the TDR. Sometime in early september after receiving a number of complaints from users the TDR asked him to limit the group purchases to 2 at a time and then later one per month so that there weren't so many going on at once - which was the biggest complaint. In all fairness, he recalls the conversation differently. From that point on there were a series of misunderstandings over those agreements. The TDR staff was spending a significant amount of time dealing with issues over the group purchase issue as in hours each week, as was I - this trend continues as evidenced by this post. </P>
Complaints continued to come in from both users and vendors. A website was created for the group purchases in early october and Carl was putting up messages advertising his site in a lot of messages on the TDR forums. There were many complaints from users about these ad's. The TDR staff and moderators set about to create a new set of guidelines that would be fair to all parties involved, vendors, group purchases, and the users - they were posted on Oct 23rd. A seperate area for the group purchases and another one for vendor promotions was created in the classified section that would be a free for all - they could post as many deals as they wanted and post the prices and all if they wished. It would also allow other vendors to offer better prices for members if they wished in that manner if they called to complain the TDR staff could simply tell them to post their promotion in the vendors promotion area. As a balance it was suggested/asked that there would be no vendor promotions or group purchase discussions in the forums. Members could discuss prices they've paid, etc however. We also decided at that point as moderators to simply put a Please see forum guideline #xx in the post if it was outside the guidelines. An example was this exchange on the board in this thread (just cutting and pasting from that)- <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001936.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001936.html</A> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">quote:</FONT> </P><HR>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-01-2000 06:06 PM
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Go check out the price i got us on the webasto!
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WWCD2 HOME PAGE
Steve St. Laurent
Administrator
Posts: 849
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999
posted 11-02-2000 09:19 PM
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Carl, please see forum guideline #5a - <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/guidelines.htm" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/guidelines.htm</A> </P>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-03-2000 12:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Steve OOPs
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WWCD2 HOME PAGE
</P>
and then </P>
wwcd2
Member
Posts: 511
From:mi
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 11-14-2000 09:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
check out the price on Webasto
------------------
WWCD2 HOME PAGE
</P><HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>
he got another one on <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001965.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/001965.html</A> , and <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/000729.html"TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/000729.html</A> . At this point the complaints were coming almost exclusively from users. I myself got 10 complaints in one week. The 2 complaints spoken of by Big Bob were the complaints that Ken had received that week alone. If you read through <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum8/HTML/000912.html" TARGET="_blank">https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum8/HTML/000912.html</A> it will explain the situation at that point and that Carl was reinstated. He asked at that point that we allow it to die down for the good of the TDR. The 3 threads that Ken posted at the top of this were posted since that time and Ken simply sent him a reminder in a private email that those threads did not meet the guidelines. He at that point decided to stop posting on the TDR. No further action has been taken on either part. We still would like to see him participate in the forums and do the group purchases but simply ask that he post them in the classifieds section and not discuss them on the forums. He feels for now that it's best for us to go our seperate ways. </P>
We are back full circle to the root of the problem from the TDR's perspective: an inordinate amount of time was being spent on non-productive issues. We tried to make the forum guidelines fair for all parties involved. The guidelines on this site are very lax and very loosely enforced especially if you compare it to other commercial sites out there. If everyone would try to abide by the guidelines we could maintain a productive and insightful web site instead of the continued non-productive discussion around this topic. Hopefully this explanation of the situation will allow us to put this behind us and move on. </P>
The TDR has had and always will have a policy that if you become unhappy with your subscription at any time that they will refund the balance of your subscription. </P>
Well I still have my flak jacket and helmet on with my fireproof suit over the top of it so I'm ready for the flaming
#ad!
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
(still an all around good guy??)
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BV</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 828
From:Beavercreek, Oregon
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 03:45 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BV" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BV" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000024&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=24"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> So Steve - How's the Wife and Daughter? BTW - Your doing a great job.
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'99, 2500, QC, SLT, LWB, 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 3. 5xlsd, tow pac, HD tcase, tow mirrors, camper pac. </P>
Alias: Martin Allen Bursell (posted per guidlines) </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Doc Tinker</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 880
From:Waterford, MI, US
Registered: Nov 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 05:53 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Doc+Tinker" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Doc+Tinker" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000025&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=25"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Thanks, Steve for the simple explanation. Too bad we couldn't have seen it put that way earlier.
<FONT COLOR="#000080"><STRONG>Doc</STRONG>
Secretary: <A HREF="http://www.gltdr.org/" TARGET="_blank">Great Lakes TDR</A> <FONT COLOR="black">B. A. D. Boys
<FONT COLOR="#990033"><STRONG>Ram Fast - Dream Hard</STRONG> </FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
P. S. - funny how the wrong word can change the meaning.
#ad</P>
[This message has been edited by Doc Tinker (edited 11-29-2000). ] </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Steve St. Laurent</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Administrator </FONT>
Posts: 899
From:Sunfield, MI, US
Registered: Oct 1999 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-29-2000 09:39 PM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Steve+St.Laurent" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000026&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=26"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> The whole family is doing great BV, thanks for asking. Sam is 10 months old and about to walk any day now, you can see pics of her at <A HREF="http://my.voyager.net/stevest/baby.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://my. voyager.net/stevest/baby.htm</A> - she is my pride and joy. Wendy is enjoying being a stay at home mom and taking care of the homestead. I'm a very proud father and husband!!
-Steve
</P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#f7f7f7"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">BIG BOB</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 297
From
ost Falls, Idaho USARegistered: Apr 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-30-2000 12:36 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=BIG+BOB" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000027&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=27"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Steve,
Thanks for the info of what has lead up to this. </P>
But I do have a question concerning the complaints. How different members have filed complaints about Carl's posting? I'm not talking about repeat complaints, I talking about each member that has complained including vendors. </P> <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> <TR BGCOLOR="#dedfdf"> <TD VALIGN="top" WIDTH="18%"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2">Bill Lins</FONT>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">Member </FONT>
Posts: 504
From:Wharton, TX USA
Registered: Jan 2000 </P></TD> <TD> <FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="2"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1">posted 11-30-2000 12:49 AM <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getbio&UserName=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=email&ToWhom=Bill+Lins" TARGET="_blank"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=editpost&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&ReplyNum=000028&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel"></A> <A HREF="https://www.turbodieselregister.com/cgi-bin/postings.cgi?action=reply&forum=TDR+Website/Roundtable&number=6&topic=000365.cgi&TopicSubject=i+have+had+it+guys/throwing+in+the+towel&replyto=28"></A> </FONT> </FONT><HR> Now see, that wasn't so hard, was it?
#adThanks, Steve- good work. <P ALIGN="right"><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" FACE="Verdana, Arial" SIZE="1"></FONT></P></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE></TD> </TR> </TBODY> </TABLE>
Last edited by a moderator:
If you dont mind me asking, why/who deleted it? Or was it a computer error?
I may be just shooting blanks here, but why not put a hyperlink for the classifieds somewhere on the TDRoundtable main index page so that the users who do have to post certain items in the classifieds get more hits on their ad and don't go off and tell the TDR that they're quitting the membership. Personally I think that quitting is a very poor way of dealing with the situation, especially a situation which involves a set of well-illustrated guidelines that are to be followed by all and even tell you what will happen to you if you don't follow them.
As a person who is not a vendor himself, but is close enough to the business to understand what is going on and why, the "group purchase" idea is called price gouging or undercutting in the business and it takes a vendor who sells enough product to finally become a dealer and get to buy a product at a lower cost due to quantities of purchasing and sell it at a lower retail while still keeping his profit to cover mortgage, utilities, etc. The group purchase idea is basically the same idea, but eliminating the vendor and substituting it for a person who goes directly to a manufacturer and says, I'm Joe Shmoe and I will buy 1000 of your product. How much can I save by buying in that quantity. This process is known as net costing, and by purchasing in quantity and selling it at a price that is 1-2% higher than cost, a person is offsetting his time and effort for far less than the vendor/dealer can offset his operating expenses. Maybe that description can shed a little more light on the subject. Robert is doing the correct thing in instituting these guidelines. Those who want to offer group pricing, maybe a hyperlink can be introduced so that those posting in the forums can and will more easily access the classified area.
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Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.
*******************************************************************************
Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission.
As a person who is not a vendor himself, but is close enough to the business to understand what is going on and why, the "group purchase" idea is called price gouging or undercutting in the business and it takes a vendor who sells enough product to finally become a dealer and get to buy a product at a lower cost due to quantities of purchasing and sell it at a lower retail while still keeping his profit to cover mortgage, utilities, etc. The group purchase idea is basically the same idea, but eliminating the vendor and substituting it for a person who goes directly to a manufacturer and says, I'm Joe Shmoe and I will buy 1000 of your product. How much can I save by buying in that quantity. This process is known as net costing, and by purchasing in quantity and selling it at a price that is 1-2% higher than cost, a person is offsetting his time and effort for far less than the vendor/dealer can offset his operating expenses. Maybe that description can shed a little more light on the subject. Robert is doing the correct thing in instituting these guidelines. Those who want to offer group pricing, maybe a hyperlink can be introduced so that those posting in the forums can and will more easily access the classified area.
------------------
Chris Timochko
AUTO WURKS DIESEL R&D TEAM
1997 5sp 4X4, Espar Heater, A. W. D. HX40 turbo, ATS 3pc Manifold, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, A. W. D. Custom Tuned Injection Pump, A. W. D. Intercooler, A. W. D. 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, A. W. D. Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, A. W. D. 6" Chrome Exhaust System, BD No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s.
*******************************************************************************
Project U96 - 1996 3500 2WD racer. A. W. D. Marine Ultra Low Compression, A. W. D. Teflon-coated Pistons, A. W. D. High Lift Camshaft, Ported and Honed Cylinder Head, Intake and Exhaust manifold; A. W. D. HX40 Turbocharger, ATS 3pc Exhaust Manifold, A. W. D. Water Injection, A. W. D. Custom Fabricated Fuel System, Race Spec A. W. D. /BD P7100 Injection Pump, A. W. D. Custom High Flow Fuel Injection Nozzles, BD Auto transmission and Custom TC, Weld Draglites, Goodyear Eagle Drag Slicks, 5" Single Stack Through The Bed, Mag-Hytec on Rear and Transmission.
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
Good idea guys, thanks for the suggestion - we're working on it and it's on the to do list.
-Steve
-Steve
I like the idea. It will help to send more traffic to the classifieds, which are a pain to navigate now.
gene
gene
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Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
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Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
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What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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