Time for a transmission upgrade

[Wertles]

First of all, lets start by saying I have no transmission issues at this point other than it is stock and I would love to go to Goerend but... 1. They are very far away. 2. Their nearest installer is very far away.

So I visited a reputable local transmission shop and asked if they would be interested in putting the parts in. I'm basically looking for a TC and VB upgrade. I'm not adding any power to my stock truck, just going to be towing a little heavier and looking to add reliability. They were not very interested in putting in someone elses parts as they couldn't really give any warrenty of their own on it. They do however say they have comparable upgrades with parts and labor warrenty for 5 years and 100,000 miles. Here's what they are offering.

Triple disk TC with 1650 stall, upgraded VB with line pressures same as Goerend, Billet input shaft and kevlar clutches. The price including labor was about 2600 out the door. He said that obviously they would inspect the rest of the transmission and bring me in and show me anything that they thought needed replacing like bands and such. Would a billet output shaft be a good idea at this time as well?

This shop has built many 48RE's including pulling trucks with 1500 HP and have offered to have someone come in so I could test drive a truck with one of their transmissions. They seem very open and honest on first impression. You hear on this site praises about Goerend but don't hear much about some of the local guys that build up the transmissions. Has anyone else had good luck with local guys putting in some upgraded parts or is it just a recipe for disaster? Thanks.

 

[Mobius1]

I just ordered one from Goerend and I'm further away form him than you are. There should be plenty of shops to install transmission's. Just as long as you get a shop that knows what they are doing. That price seems like a pretty good price. I would still however give Dave a call and tell him what you are looking for and they can help you out.



If you are towing, they will probably tell you to stick to the factory stall...

 

[LRutigliano]

First of all, lets start by saying I have no transmission issues at this point other than it is stock and I would love to go to Goerend but... 1. They are very far away. 2. Their nearest installer is very far away.
So I visited a reputable local transmission shop and asked if they would be interested in putting the parts in. I'm basically looking for a TC and VB upgrade. I'm not adding any power to my stock truck, just going to be towing a little heavier and looking to add reliability. They were not very interested in putting in someone elses parts as they couldn't really give any warrenty of their own on it. They do however say they have comparable upgrades with parts and labor warrenty for 5 years and 100,000 miles. Here's what they are offering.
Triple disk TC with 1650 stall, upgraded VB with line pressures same as Goerend, Billet input shaft and kevlar clutches. The price including labor was about 2600 out the door. He said that obviously they would inspect the rest of the transmission and bring me in and show me anything that they thought needed replacing like bands and such. Would a billet output shaft be a good idea at this time as well?
This shop has built many 48RE's including pulling trucks with 1500 HP and have offered to have someone come in so I could test drive a truck with one of their transmissions. They seem very open and honest on first impression. You hear on this site praises about Goerend but don't hear much about some of the local guys that build up the transmissions. Has anyone else had good luck with local guys putting in some upgraded parts or is it just a recipe for disaster? Thanks.

$2600 for what you stated is not possible?? I would ask again and then jump on it if its true... Just the 3x convertor is at least $1500 and the billet input is approx $800-900, new vb is approx $400... Then there is the labor to R&R the trans and more labor to rebuild it at approx $100/hr...

With a 3x torque convertor and new vb and new billet input you will also need a billet or laminated flex plate. The stock one will fail very quickly with the upgrades you are proposing...

 

[cerberusiam]

If they can guarantee the trans for that long at that price, QUICKLY take them up on it. What they are using may not be the highest quality parts or the most expensive but they warrant it then its their problem.



Check the BBB and other customers for references to make sure the back their warranty claims and fix their mistakes.



If you are using a triple disk, a heavier flex plate is almost a must. You could get by with the sotcker but its pushing the limit. As long as your aren't doing boosted launches save the $$ on the billet intermediate and output. Those are really pure performance pieces. A billet input shaft is a really good idea with a triple.



BIG CAVEAT, when you do a triple disk on the 05 and newer trucks the builder MUST set the VB and pressures up correctly or your TH option will unusable. On the shift from drive to OD in TH the lockup clutch is pulsed NOT completely released. With a single disk it is not bad as it will release enough to soften the shift. A triple disk typically will not even release enough to tell. You essentially get a locked-to-locked shift. Under high power demand in TH with a load the shift WILL knock the dust of the headliner. Just make sure the builder is aware of this little idiosynchrasy when he sets things up.



Having a local builder thta will service your needs and is competent is a huge plus. As long as they are competent and stand behind their work, I would not hesitate.

 

[AHolt]

I live in Webster NY, I drove to Ohio to have my tran
installed. Are you going to schwartz on clinton ave. I know a shop near me that can install your
parts.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

If they can guarantee the trans for that long at that price, QUICKLY take them up on it. What they are using may not be the highest quality parts or the most expensive but they warrant it then its their problem.

This is just fine, until the shop decides not to honor their warranty. Then what will you do, pay a lawyer $4000 up front to try to get $2600 back?



I had a shop build a GM 200R4. That's the trans used in Buick Grand Nationals, which this shop had experience in. However, I wasn't putting it behind a turbo V6, I was putting it behind a 10. 25:1, 400 CID V8. They said they could handle it. After 3 warranty rebuilds, the shop gave me a Turbo350trans and said I was on my own with the 200R4. I got advice and parts from the shop in California that I should have used to start with, and got the trans working adequately. Would have been a little more money but a lot less hassle if I'd done it right the first time.



I have a friend with a similar story about an '06 Cummins Dodge. The shop rebuilt his trans 6 times, then gave up. They said, "what do you want for $xxxx?" He traded the truck for a Ford with a 6-speed.



See if Suncoast or DTT or one of the other reputable builders has an installer near you. Or maybe a fellow board member knows of someone local willing to install a crate trans from Goerend. I used to run a fleet of Fords based in SW FL; I shipped a few trucks to BTS in Arkansas and a few to Suncoast in NW FL before I found someone local who I could trust to install their trannies.



This is not your granny's Dodge. Stick with the experts.



good luck

kevin

 

[Wertles]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I have talked to Goerend and the installer that they would send me to is about 7 hours away, not a huge distance but not somewhere where I can run to if I have an issue. I don't feel I need all the upgrades that the full transmission has since I have stock power. I don't do boosted launches. I pretty much drive it like I want it to last another 50 years. I don't abuse my truck but I do use it. The new trailer is going to be somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 pounds so that is the only reason for the upgrade. I would love to have a fully built Goerend but 7000 is way out of the budget for a truck that I only plan on keeping for 3 or 4 years longer. I will definitely go with an upgraded flex plate.

AHolt, the place I talked to is in Brockport, and I am in Spencerport. I don't think they are using cheap parts. They are a few dollars less than Goerend (875 vs. 1050 for the TC) but not like comparing Snap on tools to Harbor Freight. I did talk to a guy today who had his Cummins built locally and has had zero problems with it and loves it. He works at the camper store and uses his truck to pull units all over the place. I will be calling the place that he had build his this week to see if they offer anything different. I just haven't found anyone that wants to put in someone elses parts and I can't say that I blame them.

Cerb, is setting the line pressure something that a transmission shop can do easily and are there specific pressures that go with each individual TC? One thing that that I haven't heard people address is how their transmissions shift. The Brockport shop says that with the higher line pressures, shifts are definitely harder, not uncomfortable but he thinks that at WOT, I could break the rears loose a little. Is this common for built transmissions? Sorry for all the questions but the automatic transmission is a complete mystery to me.

 

[AHolt]

Going out of Holley going toward Knowlesville on 31

there was a trans shop called Manos. If there still

there they know what their doing. It will be on

right hand corner next to a bar. My truck shifts firm

not hard, you wont brake tires loose unless you

want to.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

As I understand it, some shift harder than others. My DTT will definitely bark the tires on the 1-2 shift at WOT, and also chirps in certain circumstances at less than WOT. It's the "Livestock Calibration", the softest shift they build. IMHO, an excessively hard shift is just as bad as an excessively soft one, and some less-sophisticated builders may give you a trans that slams every shift.



One thing I wish my trans did differently: at parking lot speeds, unloaded, I wish it would shift into 2nd a lot sooner. Seems like the truck would run 5 MPH in 2nd just fine, and a lot quieter.

 

[TCDiesel]

This is just fine, until the shop decides not to honor their warranty. Then what will you do, pay a lawyer $4000 up front to try to get $2600 back?



I had a shop build a GM 200R4. That's the trans used in Buick Grand Nationals, which this shop had experience in. However, I wasn't putting it behind a turbo V6, I was putting it behind a 10. 25:1, 400 CID V8. They said they could handle it. After 3 warranty rebuilds, the shop gave me a Turbo350trans and said I was on my own with the 200R4. I got advice and parts from the shop in California that I should have used to start with, and got the trans working adequately. Would have been a little more money but a lot less hassle if I'd done it right the first time.



I have a friend with a similar story about an '06 Cummins Dodge. The shop rebuilt his trans 6 times, then gave up. They said, "what do you want for $xxxx?" He traded the truck for a Ford with a 6-speed.



See if Suncoast or DTT or one of the other reputable builders has an installer near you. Or maybe a fellow board member knows of someone local willing to install a crate trans from Goerend. I used to run a fleet of Fords based in SW FL; I shipped a few trucks to BTS in Arkansas and a few to Suncoast in NW FL before I found someone local who I could trust to install their trannies.



This is not your granny's Dodge. Stick with the experts.



good luck

kevin

Becareful. . The local trans shops " I can do the same for less $$$$" If a potential customer throws that line on Me. . then go for it ... Please let me know How things turn out.



Mr S. . TDR member had his trans built by the local trans shop 7 times that trans was out, left him stranded 4 out of the 7. . I recommended to trade it in. So he sold it to someone He new and mention that the Trans had been out 7 times. The Buyer went to the trans shop and inquire about the issue... Well we all know who they blamed... A hua. . but said the trans was good and strong. YEP soon after he bought it it failed again for the 8th Time. . So he went back to the builder and demanded repairs. YEP. . to bad peewee its your problem. . They new it was going to fail so they encourage him to buy it so they could get out form under the warranty...

 

[cerberusiam]

Cerb, is setting the line pressure something that a transmission shop can do easily and are there specific pressures that go with each individual TC? One thing that that I haven't heard people address is how their transmissions shift.

Yes, it just depends on how they setup the VB, clutches, etc, for the build you want. For your use, firm positive shifts are quite adequate. For somebody that is pulling or racing its different clutches, steels, pressures, etc.

 

[Wertles]

So I spent a little more time with the guys from the shop this weekend. The shop manager spent about 45 minutes with me and would have spent a lot more with me if I wanted. After bringing up some of the suggestions brought up here, the price has risen up a little. The upgraded flex plate is one cost along with an adjustable solonoid for the VB so we will be able to tune it exactly how I would like it. This includes a very large transmission cooler with electric fans on a thermostat. I still think that ~3200 is a good price. I am going to go ahead with the build in the next week or 2. They will warrenty the transmission for 3 years unlimited miles and the TC has a 5 year or 100,000 mile warrenty on it. Their only requirement is that every 20,000 miles you come to them for a fluid change. They only charge 149 for the change and they only use Amsoil.

I will let you know how this goes. Either I will be very happy for the next 5 years or it will be a 3200 dollar mistake. If it is the latter, at least a new max tow will be in my driveway!!

 

[cerberusiam]

Still not a bad price if they are known for honoring the warranty. The 48RE is dead easy to build even for moderate power increases. If they build for pullers and racers they should be able to give you a solid unit.



Depending on where a lot of your towing is, the extra cooler with fans may be totally uneeded and just extra expense with no pay back. Fix the circulation\line pressure problems and the OE system is quite adequate for all but the most extreme uses. If its included in the price and needed for their warranty its not a bad thing to have.



Same with the Amsoil, its gonna cost you a bit with no functional return compared to using the OE fluid and changing on the same schedule. Again, if that is their price for warranty then that may be the thing to do. Its not going to hurt you as long as you can do 20k in a year.

 

[TCDiesel]

Still not a bad price if they are known for honoring the warranty. The 48RE is dead easy to build even for moderate power increases. If they build for pullers and racers they should be able to give you a solid unit.



Depending on where a lot of your towing is, the extra cooler with fans may be totally uneeded and just extra expense with no pay back. Fix the circulation\line pressure problems and the OE system is quite adequate for all but the most extreme uses. If its included in the price and needed for their warranty its not a bad thing to have.



Same with the Amsoil, its gonna cost you a bit with no functional return compared to using the OE fluid and changing on the same schedule. Again, if that is their price for warranty then that may be the thing to do. Its not going to hurt you as long as you can do 20k in a year.

X2... . the cooler Will NOT help... Use ATF+4 buy far the best Mopar trans fluid for Chrysler Transmissions

 

[Wertles]

The transmission cooler is included in all of their transmissions and is not an upcharge. If I understood him correctly, this is in addition to, not a replacement for the stock cooling already on the truck. I agree on the Amsoil as being overkill but if that is what it takes for warrenty, I'll go with it. I figure if I already spend 80 dollars on my oil changes that I do myself every 5000 miles, 150 dollars every 20,000 for the transmission is cheap insurance.

 

[HBarlow]

Most cities probably have automatic transmission rebuilders capable of building a 48RE but building one to last 150k miles behind a Cummins engine pulling a "15,000 to 17,000 lb. fifthwheel" is a specialized skill that not every transmission builder has.

My advice is save your money and wait until you are ready to pay the price for a DTT, Goerends, or Suncoast transmission built by one of the top builders in the country (and Canada) with years of experience building special purpose super heavy duty 48RE automatics. A cheaper rebuild is not likely to be as good or to satisfy you.

A "warranty" can turn out to be worthless and often does.

 

[MChrist]

I have my receipt from Goerend on my desk at work, because I was PM'ing Mobius1 about it. My rebuild, all beefed up, including labor, was right around $3800. I have billet input, triple disc converter, and all his tricks. Great transmission, zero problems.

 

[Wertles]

I talked to Craig at Goerend as this was my first choice and without building it for added power it was much more expensive than your 3800. That would have been a no brainer. I was quoted much closer to 7000. I'm only planning on keeping the truck for another 3 years or so and I now don't put more than 20,000 miles on the truck a year so I don't want to put that kind of money into it. If I depended on this truck as a daily driver and daily tower I would not chance it. They have built quite a few of these transmissions including one of the transporters from our trailer dealer who has been very satisfied and has had zero problems. As I said, it may be a 3200 dollar mistake and the worst thing that happens is I do a little more OT and a new truck gets parked in my driveway a little sooner. Best case scenario is that I get a nice running truck and it lasts longer than I expect.

 

[MChrist]

That's really odd. My trans has all the beefed up goodies, triple disc converter, billet input, laminated flex plate, etc... $3800. I had Dave build it up with the understanding that I would probably be putting twins on it, and may even try sled pulling. The only thing he suggested is that I may want a higher stall speed if I went with big twins, which I didn't.

Maybe your price is for a built trans sent to you, then you may get a core charge after you send yours back to him??
It's worth finding out.

 

[TCDiesel]

I have my receipt from Goerend on my desk at work, because I was PM'ing Mobius1 about it. My rebuild, all beefed up, including labor, was right around $3800. I have billet input, triple disc converter, and all his tricks. Great transmission, zero problems.

The last couple of years Have seen BIG Price increase. . NO way to get that today.



On the Added Auxiliary cooler,,WHY add additional component's with NO benefit. . Look at Hoots setup and it gave little benefit, and its the best I've seen... We added a Auxiliary cooler that was designed to cool 120 Gallons of fluid. . it only added to the time it took to reach 200* plus. . The pump is the weak link in the 47/48re NOT the Auxiliary cooling... I am surprised the Builder is not up to date with the 3gen System...