Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Time to get oil pressure at start up

[drees1]

I don't like the excessive time it takes to get oil pressure when starting. I'm counting 3 or 4 mississippi before I see the needle move. And it is not the gage, I hear the mechanical slop taken up as soon as the needle shoots up. When I spin off the oil filter after 15 - 20 min of shutdown, it is only half full. I am concluding that the oil is somehow siphoning out of the system. Is that true? Why? Any way to resolve it with out a fancy motor driven prelube system?



Doug Rees

 

[illflem]

Many folks have said there is a lag between actual oil pressure and what the gauge says but I know what you're saying, I also hear a difference in engine noise when the gauge comes up. Not sure how long it takes but my oil filter also siphons back. Makes me think it's a waste of time to prefill a new filter after a change, but I still do. Wonder if a vacuum breaker installed on the port on top of the filter housing would stop the siphon? They are used in boiler systems, can defiantly handle the heat, are small enough and cheap, under $10. Another alternative is an accumulator tank connected to the same location with a solenoid valve that is open when the key is on, off when off. These tanks are similar to well tanks with a pressurized rubber blatter inside. It would store a couple of quarts of pressured oil while the engine is running and shut down then release it to prelube when the key is turned on but without starting the engine. Disadvantage may be that you have two extra quarts in the system when the key is on till the tank refills.

Cranking the engine with the fuel shut down so it won't start isn't a viable option, it's just the same as running it with no lubrication, it just turns slower and takes longer to lube than just starting it.

 

[R.E. Miller]

Dumb question (and here we go again), but what brand filter are you guys using? I am not up to date on the innards of the fleetguards, and I tend to think that they would not differ too much for the others out there, but... . I know for a fact that Nissan requires the use of their filters on their newer engines because their filters come with some sort of set-up that does not allow oil to "bleed" out when the engine is shut down. On my parent's maxima cars, the difference can be heard



I don't know if this is the deal here, but just an idea



Russell

 

[Jammar9082]

I use only Fleetguard filters and I have a two second delay until the oil pressure comes up. I can tell the difference in the sound of the engine when the oil reaches system pressure. I think we are experiencing unnecessary wear and tear on the engine because of the lack of lubrication. I'm in favor of a preluber but haven't figure out exactly how I want to do it.

 

[ramsalot]

I do prelube with an Engine Lubrication Systems unit. I have gone thru 2 pumps in 3 years at a cost of 800 bucks. (400 Each) Not what I would call good reliability but planning to run this engine (not necessarily the truck) forever I fell not a bad investment. My present pump is teetsup now and I am looking into other options. The only one I find remotely promising is the Keith Eickert system and it is around 500 bucks. It uses a Weldon pump designed to pump gear lube for rear-end and trans cooling in road race applications and should be more reliable than what I have now. The links below tell more of the story on both units.



www.keith-eickert.com/oil-preoiler.htm



www.preluber.com/TypesFrameSet.htm



Andrew

 

[ramsalot]

That keith-eickert link was typoed.



Try this.



www.keith-eickert.com/oil_preoiler.htm



Andrew

 

[illflem]

Searched around and Moroso Accumulators are just what you need, no pumps and the price is reasonable Summit has them search for Moroso oil accumulators, looks like $250 will get you everything you need

Here's another brand, same idea

http://www.minesupply.com/Lubrication.htm

 

[CumminsPower98]

Pre-oiler

Here is what looks like a good solution to me: Engine Pre-oiler. It works on the same principle that illflem was talking about. I will probably buy one of these at some point. It looks like a good investment to me.



Mark

 

[illflem]

Mark, that unit looks real good, $199 complete isn't bad, even shows pictures of a Duramax install. I'm sure it would add more than $199 worth of longevity to your engine. Only thing that concerns me is that it tees into the oil pressure sender, I don't recall if there is enough room on our trucks especally for the tank on the drivers side. Anyone know what would happen connecting it to the oil filter housing port, would the oil back flow though the filter to the pan rather than going where you want or is there a check valve?



Think I'll go for one since I now live just 7 miles town and don't like driving the CTD for short runs, it's parked for days at a time, every start is a dry one.

 

[drees1]

Good answers

I like the accumulator idea. I think the moroso and similar will post lube turbos, which is good too, but I don't think Holsett is very sensative to lack of lube at shutdown. However a small solenoid valve could be used to control it and save it's charge for the prestart cycle instead of post lube. Also, is it possible that the turbo line from the top of the filter is letting air back into the filter and oil system? Then a small check valve might help. Has anyone from Cummins ever investigated this and given a reason why?



Doug Rees

 

[redramnc]

I have an accumulator from Canton Racing Products installed on a 74 Scout as a pre-luber. It is an air-bubble type, not a bladder-type or piston-type. The high-end Moroso's are a piston-type so they can be installed horizontally without losing the air charge. The Canton setup has an electric solenoid so you can switch it at your leisure. The only problem I found with it was that the air charge aerated into the oil after about a month so you had to top-off the pressure periodically. It was only a quart extra but it really helped on cold starts. I would close the solenoid at high rpm and get 40-50 PSI trapped in it. The system was relatively inexpensive when I installed it 10 years ago - under $200 if I remember correctly.



Just another option.

 

[WadePatton]

So this is a common thing?

I only see a few folks chiming in here.



With a "Cummins approved" purolater filter I get a full 5-6 second delay on a cold start 3-4 on a restart.



If they all do it, and still last forever... then why all the fuss?

 

[CumminsPower98]

Because they might last longer then forever!

 

[LarryB]

I've had many engines over the years do this but my Cummins doesn't seem to. Maybe it's just too noisy for me to hear it.

 

[illflem]

Wade, there's a couple of situations that a pre-luber might help to make your engine last the rated amount of time. Starts after the truck is parked for long periods quite often and in extreme cold weather. Certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[JohnE]

pre or post

There is just as much advantage to running a post lube system. It takes just as many seconds for the turbo to wind down (without oil pressure) as it takes for the system to pressurize on start-up.



The disadvantage to a auxillary lube is the possiblilty of advanced bearing wear, if the low switch is set too high. Bearing surfaces will channel. I think the systems we use on ISC and Series 50 trip at 3-5 psi.



A cheap alternative is to follow the Cummins advice and put a switch on your fuel solenoid. This allows you to extend the cranking on your engine and get some lube flowing before you add the fuel.



The easiest way to get your oil pressure is to follow the Cummins recommended oil viscosity charts. My beast stands outside all day and even with the Espar, I would never consider anything less than a 5W-30 or 5W-40 <em>synthetic</em> for winter use. In the summer, especially if you tow, the top number better be -40. I have experienced more drain back problems in the summer than winter.



diesel on

-John

 

[WadePatton]

I understand the use of pre/post auxillary lube systems.



I guess I'll have to post a poll.



I'm just not comfy with the guage not moving for so long after start-up. And if I could find out from more than three drivers that it is commonplace as hel on the Cummins/Dodge setup, I, personally, won't worry about it.



I've got a Ford (gas) outside with 329,000 miles on the original bearings and oil pump with no preluber-- runs like a top-no smoke no knocks.

 

[trailmonster]

Oo. I guess I better jump in here and give my two engines worth. I have a 98 12v auto and recently changed engines. My original had 112,00 miles on it and I lost a piston and had a nasty shutdown on the interstate. FRAM filter? Not sure of the cause but I replaced it with a used 35. 000 mile motor from a standard truck, now 215 horse instead of 180. I have at least a 3 second oil pressure delay on startup and with the motor I took out had delays as long as 8 seconds in the winter. My dad has a 2002 24 valve and has a 2-3 second delay, my brother a 96 12 valve with about 3-4 second delay..... I have to consider this pretty common. I personally am not worried about it even after having lost a motor, I won't however buy any more FRAM filters. By the way, my current 3-5 second delay is with a mopar filter, they are spendy!

 

[Extreme1]

My truck has about a 3-4 second delay summer or winter. Fleetguard full flow filter, Amsoil bypass and a mixture of 5w-30 & 15w-40 synthetic. (I had a big leak and added viscosity depending on the weather).



I've thought about the pre-luber. I don't think a post lube would be as important, especially if the truck sits for a few days.



An electric solenoid would be the hot ticket, turn the key on and wait a few seconds after pressure shows on the guage. It will pump back up as the engine runs.



I would try the tap on the oil filter adapter. There will be some flow back through the filter but the gear pump will not allow much at all.

 

[Snow man]

Maybe I am the minority here,but how many of these 6bt's,and isb's are having bearing problems related to oil starvation,and dry starting? I think none,and the engine clearly lasts way longer than the Dodge wrapped around it,so who cares if it makes noise for 3 seconds?It isnt going to affect the enigne life in our trucks. We are wasting our time,and money trying to fix something that isnt a problem,that 400 spent on a preluber adds the likely hood of an engine failure due to a blown hose. Your 100X more likely to blow the motor from a preluber hose gone bad,than the wear from a dry startup. That 400 could be spent on meaningful things--like more bombing stuff