Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Timing troubles

[MRector]

Well, me and a friend of mine attempted to adjust timing on my 97(cpl 2174) yesterday. The original timing had slipped to around 11 degrees. We set it to 5. 0 mm of lift on TDC(16. 5 deg. ). Test drive--ran good for about 2 minutes, then started popping with white smoke, so we limped it back to the shop. Checked timing again, it had moved to about 3. 8mm of lift(10 degrees?) So we reset it again and checked AND double checked it for proper lift. Road test--ran GREAT then same thing, popping and white smoke.

Limped it back again, checked it again, it had moved to 2. 9mm lift(like 7 degrees?) It is presently still tore down as of now.

The only thing we could figure going wrong was that we didnt use the thrust washer/bearing that Dave Fritzs' directions give. We are torqueing it to 144 ft lbs and everthing seems ok, maybe we need to torque it more?



thanks, in advance

mike rector

 

[Lsfarm]

Shaft has to be clean

The tapered pump shaft and the inside of the timing gear has to be CLEAN and DRY. No residual oil allowed. It is also a very good idea to use a new lockwasher. I have removed at least six lockwashers that were cracked and several that came off in two pieces. Just think about half of a lockwasher trying to go through the gears!!



If you are not removing the front cover, then the only way to clean the pump shaft and gear is to use a can of brake clean and the little plastic spray-tube that comes with it. LIft the gear off the shaft, and direct the spray all the way around the shaft and the hole in the gear. Using a blow-gun and LOW pressure air, blow out the liquid brake-clean solvent. Repeat several times!!



There is a recess behind the gear/on the front of the pump that retains oil. If you use high pressure air to blow off the solvents, then you just blow oil all over the shaft from the recess. This is why I say use low pressure air. Just enough to evaporate the solvent.



The grip of the gear on the tapered shaft is what drives the pump, not the torque on the nut. The torque on the nut only keeps the gear firmly seated on the tapered shaft.



If you haven't peened. tabbed or blocked the KDP and loctited the cover bolts, you should just pull the front cover, take care of the dowel pin, and remove the gear for cleaning, then reassemble dry.



Hope this helps, Greg L

 

[JoshPeters]

Great post Greg! I was thinking the exact same thing!



Been there done that... . Thought I could make it work in a pinch!



I was wrong!



JP

 

[MRector]

Thanks, this is VERY useful. We will try this method in a little while. Yes we are trying to do it with the cover still on it. I guess well go ahead and pull the cover off and clean it right.



mike

The tapered pump shaft and the inside of the timing gear has to be CLEAN and DRY. No residual oil allowed. It is also a very good idea to use a new lockwasher. I have removed at least six lockwashers that were cracked and several that came off in two pieces. Just think about half of a lockwasher trying to go through the gears!!



If you are not removing the front cover, then the only way to clean the pump shaft and gear is to use a can of brake clean and the little plastic spray-tube that comes with it. LIft the gear off the shaft, and direct the spray all the way around the shaft and the hole in the gear. Using a blow-gun and LOW pressure air, blow out the liquid brake-clean solvent. Repeat several times!!



There is a recess behind the gear/on the front of the pump that retains oil. If you use high pressure air to blow off the solvents, then you just blow oil all over the shaft from the recess. This is why I say use low pressure air. Just enough to evaporate the solvent.



The grip of the gear on the tapered shaft is what drives the pump, not the torque on the nut. The torque on the nut only keeps the gear firmly seated on the tapered shaft.



If you haven't peened. tabbed or blocked the KDP and loctited the cover bolts, you should just pull the front cover, take care of the dowel pin, and remove the gear for cleaning, then reassemble dry.



Hope this helps, Greg L

 

[Jim Fulmer]

It's either slipping as stated above or it's moving when you pop the gear back off. Hence the reason most of us pin the pump and back the motor up to advance the timing. If you want after that you can use your indicator to double check your specs.



Timing is not as particular as most people think, now having said that i don't mean there is no difference in 15 and 20 degrees. The is no noticeable difference or very little between 15 and 16. The math formula is dia of balancer x pie (3. 1416) divided by 360 x the number of degrees you want to advance. Pin the pump at it's TDC, the degrees of timing is marked on the plaque, pop the gear off and back the motor up the distance the calculator gives you in the math formula. Clean the shaft off with brake cleaner or contact cleaner the install the gear with a NEW lock washer. Tighten it some but not allot... . say 30-40 lbs (remember the pump is still pinned with a PLASTIC pin) this will keep the pump from changing the timing you set. Now unpin the pump and finish tightening the nut. I've probably do it this way 50 times over the years.



Caution: If for any reason you mess up and break that plastic pin off inside the pump, you will pull the pump to fish the pieces out... ..... I've done this!



Jim

 

[Lsfarm]

I forgot to mention

I forgot to mention, after you have cleaned the shaft and are reinstalling the pump gear, make sure you lubricate the threads before you torque the nut back on. Dry threads will make the torque setting incorrect. Just a drop of oil or a very small amount of anti-sieze will do the trick.



Also, when you pull the cover for access to the pin and pump gear, your TDC mark on the crank pulley/dampener will be incorrect. So you will have to find an accurate TDC again. The four crankshaft bolts allow about 5* or more movement of the dampener on the crankshaft.



Hope this helps, Greg L

 

[KingS]

High torque setting

Hey there guys on here there are some posts about timing.



Some of the guys have went to a high torque setting when they tighten the nut back instead of the stock torque spec I forget the number but it is on here I used the higher torque setting and no slippage on my timing.

 

[MRector]

The cleaning worked!! We cleaned the shaft and gear taper with brake cleaner (50 times!!!), then reseated the gear and viola!, held this time We also re-torqued to about 150 ftlbs instead of 144.



Thanks for all the info Greg, and Jim helped me out a bunch.



also-Someone may want to EDIT the directions for timing cause they do not say anything about cleaning the shaft properly. :{ If it had've, then we would've----the first time!



Thanks,

Mike Rector