Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) timing

[zstroken]

I am curious what happens when you advance the timing too much on the 12V's?? How much do you normally run? How much is too much? THanks

 

[ndurbin]

15 to 16 degrees is what most people usually run. mine is set at 15-15. 5. So people a claim a lose in low end torque I haven't noticed it with mine.



If my understanding is right by advancing or retarding the timing to much the fuel well come in at the wrong time and create a lose in power.



highest safe timing is about 23-24 degrees on a stock truck

 

[bighammer]

15 to 16 degrees is what most people usually run. mine is set at 15-15. 5. So people a claim a lose in low end torque I haven't noticed it with mine.

Did you hire it done or do it yourself? What method was used? (your instructions in another post made no sense to me)

If my understanding is right by advancing or retarding the timing to much the fuel well come in at the wrong time and create a lose in power.

Too early and it's fighting the piston getting to the top. Too late, and the piston's too far down. Optimal timing is dependent on RPM. I think emissions are part of the reason the factory settings are where they are. Another part of it is the defueling that usually occurs in a stock engine at a bit over 2000 RPM. When you change the fueling to open the useful power band to 3 or 4000 RPM, you need to advance in the timing to allow time for the fuel to burn. That's why a truck that is way advanced has an idle that sounds like a jackhammer, but runs strong at WOT. The timing is set to be BEST for higher RPM operation.

highest safe timing is about 23-24 degrees on a stock truck

You're kidding, right? I don't know of anybody running a stock truck at 23-24* Maybe I'm wrong, (I'm certainly not an expert) but I don't think there really would not be any gain for a stock truck at that setting. (I'm guessing the low end would not be good at all) Headgaskets blow out at higher settings. I don't think anybody has the magic number of what's safe, but 16* seems to be about the maximum for a stock head.

 

[nfox]

12V Timing

I just got my timing set up to 16. 5* and the motor it is alot louder at idle and runs really good now. Oo.

 

[Deezul1]

Mine is at 15. 5 and there is a low end torque loss but its not bad. It helps with EGT control and fuel mileage to advance it but too much can cause blown head gaskets. I noticed the low speed loss coming up a small grade into the area I live and before advancing timing I could pull it easy at 1100 rpm in 4th and after it will only do it above 1250rpm or shift back to 3rd. Pulls better top end though.

 

[ndurbin]

When my timing was set it was done by somebody else while I learned since then I've done 4 or 5 other trucks at work. What I explained in the other post is the steps I go thru at work setting the timing. After reading it again I didnt really go into enough detail. Once I get #1 ready to fire we use the #1 intake vavle to determine where TDC is. From there we use the dial indicator to determine timing by the travel of the valve til it hits the piston. We rotate the engine just slightly and use the hand primer to pump fuel out the #1 delivery valve. When the fuel cuts off at the desired setting on the dial indicator we have our timing set.

You're kidding, right? I don't know of anybody running a stock truck at 23-24* Maybe I'm wrong, (I'm certainly not an expert) but I don't think there really would not be any gain for a stock truck at that setting. (I'm guessing the low end would not be good at all) Headgaskets blow out at higher settings. I don't think anybody has the magic number of what's safe, but 16* seems to be about the maximum for a stock head.

check this link out highest safe timing

 

[pathaymond]

No Offense But the last post will not touch my truck!!

I lost a engine due to fools and there ways of setting timing. and these guys were supposed to be pros!! Theres One guy here that thinks his ear is a dial Indicator. he cost me 10K dont play foolish with timming it can destroy a good engine if not done with perfectionists care.

 

[bighammer]

Now it's sounding like a method of spill port timing, but your valve & indicator part still makes no sense. At or near TDC there is no movement of the valves. Even letting a valve rest on the piston to try to "read" TDC is not accurate because there is is sort of a "flat spot" of no movement at the very top.



Also I had been told (though I've never tried it) that the primer plunger wouldn't pump fuel thru the delivery valve. Did you remove yours or was I told wrong?

 

[Howard Durand]

I set the timing on my 94 to 15 degrees and am happy with the results. Engine noise increased considerably though.



I did it myself using BigHammer's method of determining TDC and following the procedures as stated in TSB 18-10-94 Rev. A.

It is a proven method. It took me most of the day but a good mechanic could probably do it quicker.



I would really like to know why I can't seem to get much better than 17 miles per gallon.

 

[Cooker]

I read the link to the other post. I think there are many guys here, some with a ton more knowledge and experience than me, would strongly disagree with chrleb1's comments on a safe maximum timing. He did specify a truck running relatively low boost whick would help the situation but 23-24 degrees is absurb on a stock motor.



Regarding safe timing maximums and timing recommendations, this was taken from a post by Joe Donnelly. This should help answer the original question.

With the 215 pump, for 1400-1700 rpm, 14 deg; for 2000-2300, 15. 5 deg. , for 2600-3000 rpm, 18 deg. With the smaller pumps, you can add 1-2 degrees.

As far as the timing directions, I am having a very tough time (no pun intended) trying to understand that as well

 

[Stroker Smoker]

I am set at 17* and love it. That seems to be tha maximum safe timing for a stock head gasket. I know a hand full of people who are running anywhere from 19-22* timing some with stock head gasket and others with replacement head gaskets. These trucks are dual purpose trucks used both for sled pulling and everyday work and transportation. I think that almost any modified truck that rolls out of Enterprise Engine's doors are set anywhete in the high teens to low twentys for timing.

 

[ndurbin]

This is how I was taught by two guys that have over 60 yrs of combined exprience working on diesel injection systems. I'll admit I'm not the best at putting everything down and I'm still learning alot myself on this.



You use the dial indicator on the valve to determine true TDC. The dial indicator is attached to the #1 intake valve and is preloaded slightly so you can see when the piston starts to get close to TDC. Once the dial indicator starts to go back down the piston is going back down. True TDC is in between there when the dial indicator holds steady while you are rotating the engine. You can use the valve to verify the piston is there by putting a socket and extension on it and moving it down til it hits the piston. I believe (but am not positive) the reason we preload it is to avoid the "flat spot" near TDC.



To get fuel threw the DV with the hand primer you remove the spring and shimes then reinstall it.



I apologize to any of you who I have confused on how to set their timing, I'm in the process of learning and should have made sure my posts were clearer than they were.