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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Tire pressure=nicer ride but what about 19.5's?

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geusterman

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Negotiating for a set of 19. 5 wheels and looking forward to a shorter sidewall that is tougher and can carry more weight when it dawned on me that they may ride like bricks. Would you big wheel boys weigh in here? TIA, George
 
I need to add a question here as well. Is there a greater or lesser heat issue with the 19. 5's? And one more. I am torn between Toyo 608 Mud and Snows and their road tire with snipes. I am in the snow some each winter with snomobiles either pulled or on bed but have four wheel drive (ok, 2) but usually on plowed roads. 90 percent is bare hiway. Thoughts? I just can't do anything without input. George
 
Recommended...

That’s a tough one. I have Michelin 285/70R19. 5 tires and generally I would say it was the best road handling option we made to the truck. But the tire inflation question is still not fully answered in my mind. I tried to extrapolate the tire pressures below 70 psi (Michelin’s minimum tire inflation recommendation) with the weight that these trucks carry, both empty and loaded. I usually run about 60 to 65 empty and 70 psi loaded (the truck that is). The ride isn’t bad, especially with the camper loaded, but empty, well you already know that! (I was warned not to go less than 50 psi. ) I don’t think the ride is any worse than stock as far as smoothness goes. It helped the ride somewhat by installing adjustable shocks and an aft fuel tank for the extra weight in the back to help smooth out the ride, which applies, to any RAM and tire combination, esp. empty. Anyway, all factors weighed, the 19. 5 wheels and tires improve handling and steering and do not seem to adversely affect the ride quality (or what little there was to begin with).



The tires I have (see signature) are only rated at 65 mph. But considering I’m running only about a quarter of their rated load, I run at 75 mph through the desert at temps as high as 112 degrees.



I will point out the truck doesn’t stop as quick with 19. 5’s. That is obvious if you stop and think about it.



Recommended.
 
Thanks Radodge. You're just the guy I was hoping would respond as I have looked at your signature.



Bill Swails had mentioned overheating his tires and I think he had a heat monitor. In fact didn't he blow one up from heat? I cruise empty closer to 80 and am running the new Toyo 295 with no problems. Is the heat warning from the thickness of rubber and the added steel or just the potential load? The 16 inch Toyo's I have now are rated 3450 I believe. Am I creating a problem?



I lowered the present tires to 35 pounds and it made a great difference in ride quality. I am installing Kelderman rear air ride next week. Did you try lower pressure on your originals before switching?



Is your comment on "harder to stop" related to the o. d. of the tire and the rotational power the increased circumference has (like a larger gear)? The 245's (by 19. 5) I would get only add an inch to the 295 16inchers I have now.



Lastly, I noticed you have road tires and not mud and snow. Have you had any traction issues? Great thanks for your thoughtful replies. George Eusterman
 
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What a timely post; for ya'll, cause I ordered my new tires last friday. I have the Rickson 19. 5's with the Bridgestone 724F 245/70R19. 5. I have 80,000 miles on the tires, rotated them every 5,000 with 70psi in the front and 65psi in the rear. There is still plenty of tread left, probably another 20,000 miles or so. The ride was a little bit rougher on the bumps, but with the match mounting (balancing) done by Rickson the ride is very smooth and the tires wore like iron. Only problem was they are a little slick on wet roads in stop and go traffic and they will break loose if you goose it or on slick country backroads.



My truck has always been hard to stop and used to eat pads and rotors. I put the bigger wheel cylinders on the rear and bought front rotors and pads from EGR and the truck will stop now; 45,000 miles on the new pads and rotors and they still look good.



I just spent the last month trying to learn all I can about the best replacement tire. The recomendation made by Rickson, which I ignored when I bought the Bridgestones, was to go with the 225's regardless of manufacturer. These trucks, unloaded, are not heavy enough for these commercial truck tires. The wider the tire on the highway, the more floatation you get. The narrower the tire has a smaller footprint which equals more pounds per square inch on the road surface.



I spoke a length with Rickson and Fest3er who both recommend the 225's. Fest3er has the 225 Toyo 303's all the way around with over 60,000 miles and is really pretty happy with them although he said they have gotten a little slippery towards the end. Rickson said the 608's are not a high mileage tire. One of the guys a Rickson had the 303's on the back and the highway rib on the front and seemed to like the set up. I thought about that for a while but I believe tire rotation is very important if you want to get 80,000 miles out of a $1,100+ set of tires.



Rickson was very helpful in trying to help me determine what to replace the Bridgestones with even though I was not going to purchase from them. So, I bought the Michelin XDE-M/S 225/70R19. 5's. They are on order from Discount Tire and the shop does have the Hunter GSP9700 wheel balancer to match mount the tires like Rickson did on my Bridgestone's. The tire pressure is also very important. If too low then the tire will spin on the wheel and ruin the match mounting.



It's raining here and the new tires are supposed to arrive today; I guess I will find out pretty quick.
 
Thanks DOWD. I am going 245 (if I do this) because the extra room in the tire provides the air capacity to get close to 5000#. Notice the 225's are in the 3000# arena. Great comments on slickness of those tires with the harder rubber. The dealer I am working through (Les Schawb) recommends "sniping" the tire like the big rigs. More traction stopping and going. I am torn between the road Toyo and mud and snow Toyo (this dealer does not handle Michelins--which I like). Another thing--I found a trailer wheel they have made here at this dealer for around $100. If this works out we may have us a wheel--not too pretty--flat-faced--but a wheel. I will keep poking at this. My truck feels like a full time job. I just want to make changes of improvement, not losing something like ride quality or stopping power or safety or something. I still don't know why the 19. 5's stop slower--centrifugal force? George
 
Guesterman, the 19. 5s are harder to stop because:



Larger diameter, turn slower, meaning the wheels apply more torque to the brakes which is harder to overcome.



Wheels weigh more so you have to overcome the added energy here. Which brings up another point. . . unsprung weight. I would definitely go for the aluminum wheels since the metal ones are quite heavy, 120lbs or so per wheel assy.



Vaughn
 
Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie
Guesterman, the 19. 5s are harder to stop because:

Larger diameter, turn slower, meaning the wheels apply more torque to the brakes which is harder to overcome.

Wheels weigh more so you have to overcome the added energy here. Which brings up another point. . . unsprung weight. I would definitely go for the aluminum wheels since the metal ones are quite heavy, 120lbs or so per wheel assy.

Vaughn

(Most of this post is addressed to Guesterman, even though I use 'you' throughout. )

I don't think my wheels weigh *quite* that much. The wheel *plus tire* may weigh close to that, but I think the tire is twice as heavy as the wheel. AndI think the weight (of mine) is closer to 100 lbs, since I can still easily pick them up.

I recently had the OEM tires on the truck for a week or three, and didn't notice any difference in stopping time/distance. But I *did* notice how mushy it felt, and could barely wait to get the 19. 5s back on!

As DOWG said, I've got the TY303 225/70/19. 5s. As to heat, I usually run 75 on the highway, year-round, conditions permitting. Unladen, the tires get warm, maybe even very warm on the hottest days. But only *once* did they get too hot to 'hold': when I had 3700 lbs. of gravel in the bed and drove, oh, 30 miles on a hot Virginia day, at under 45 MPH.

As to traction, I have no complaints with the TY303s. Running them at 65/55 front/rear PSI, they have always gripped the road, both stopping and cornering. Driving up and down VA311 between Salem and I-64, up and down mountains and around hairpin turns, I'm usually running 10-15 MPH over the cautionary speed.

Snow traction with them is also quite adequate. They aren't fantastic, because they do have the solid outer tread ribs. But I've never been stuck in snow, and they've never prevented me from traveling due to snow.

Their rain traction has been wonderful; the only time wet traction has been a problem has been on a couple roads that were oily. For instance, the left turn following US-15 north in Frederick, MD, when I slid for 50 feet due to a *lot* of oil on the pavement, and drove sideways for another 50 feet until the oil was gone.

I remarked that the tires have had somewhat less traction of late. But that is most likely because I'm running about 62 PSI in the front and about 50 in the rear, in an attempt to eliminate the odd feathering of the inner tread blocks on the front tires. But, from what I saw at Kaufmann's this past weekend, I may have discovered *why* they are feathering.

It seems that at least several different tires there would 'concave' the tread at high speed (see http://murphy.gotourown.com/tires/tires.html for pictures. ) I *think* that's what's been happening to my tires at high speed. Up to 60 MPH or so, the tires are pretty quiet, but over that, they start singing, which is the feathering rearing it's ugly head.

But since lowering the pressure has resulted in a little less traction, I may run the pressures back up to 65/55 PSI for my upcoming trip to WI, MN, SD and IL.

As to running 245s for the added capacity, remember that the 2500 4X4 is only *rated* for about 2300 lb. payload, which might be about 3800 lbs. on the axle, or 1900 lbs. per tire. You would have to put about 8500 lbs. in the bed to load the rear tires to 5000 lbs. each.

That 5000 lbs. rating is good for highway speeds all day long, and I don't think you would be running 70 MPH for 8 hours, day in and day out with your truck *that* overloaded.

You also need to look at the weight rating of the wheels. If they're only good for 3600 lbs. , it won't make much sense to use tires that exceed that capacity.

As others have said, the 19. 5" tires are intended for vehicles with a much greater weight than our little pick-em-ups. Were I to run, say, 70 PSI in the rear tires unladen, I would be driving on only the inner tread blocks, which *greatly* reduces traction.

Unless you intend to have your truck heavily laden (to max GVW) most of the time, you should stick with 225/70-19. 5s. The TY303 tread is just as wide as the tread on the OEM 245 Goodrears.

Are the 19. 5" tires the *final* answer to all tire problems and performance requirements? No. They are, by no means, perfect, especially on our light trucks. However, considering that my truck drives and handles like a sports car with the TY303s (and KYB monotube shocks), are giving me *great* mileage, have gladly hauled the occasional almost-insane load,and give me a smoother, nicer ride than the OEM tires, I would do it again, even if I had to pay full price for the tires.

65K miles now, and I'm *still* 50K-100K miles away from needing new tires.

Fest3er
 
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TMI

It’s nice to see a topic on 19. 5 from folks with experience. Reading through the posts, I wanted to mention a few other things.



Handling: The better handling of the 19. 5” wheels, or their “sports car like handling” (I’m not kidding and that also includes carrying a 4,000+ lbs. Camper) is partially due to the stiffer sidewalls of the 19. 5 tires. The original tires felt a little spongy going around turns, not terrible, but definitely noticeable, especially when compared to their heavy sidewall counterparts (our tires are 16 ply radials, load range H). Because of the stiffer tires, I too was concerned about ride quality. My point is, I don’t think the difference in ride quality is noticeable, but the difference in handling is certainly noticeable. (George – I’m really interested in how the Kelderman air suspension works out for you. I’m particularly concerned about increased ride height in the rear. )



Size: I opted for the 285 tires for a little better ground clearance (35. 1” diameter, 10. 1” wide). I could go that high because of the width of the rims (7 ½”). Any larger and there would be clearance problems unless you went with a lift kit. So, I am not carrying a spare since it wouldn’t fit anyway (put an aft tank in). I figure I’m driving on two spares anyway. The Alco’s are polished on both sides, so rotating the wheels is not a problem. (Have to rotate the valve stems).



Load and Pressure: Load rating for the Michelin XZA single wheel at 70 psi is 7,870 lbs. , for a dual it’s 14,480 lbs. Maximum pressure is 115 psi with a corresponding load rating of 12,350/22,700. So another problem is airing down the tires to get all the tread on the ground. Empty, it seems to be about 55 – 58 psi. I like to run them a little higher at about 60 empty in the rear and 65 in front. I increase the pressure to 70/70 or a little more when I carry the camper. When I extrapolated the pressure/load curve, I came up with the following.



Empty: Front axle – 4600 lbs. – 57 psi. ; Rear axle – 3,160 – 52 psi.

With Camper – front axle – 4800 lbs. – 59 psi, Rear axle – 6,820 – 56 psi.



Mind you, I don’t trust these numbers, so I don’t use them. I would rather err on the side of saftey. Besides, too low a pressure will over heat the tires. When I invest in an infrared temperture gun, I’ll investigate further. If anyone else can shed some light here, please do. FYI.



Traction: I have only had one occasion on a hill in slippery mud that almost got me stuck. 6-wheel drive made it a non-issue. I haven’t had the opportunity to try the snow and ice route. I’m still looking for a good set(s) of chains.



Braking: I only mentioned braking because there is a noticeable difference. It takes more pressure with the 19. 5 vs the stock size. If you’re not ready for it, you can overrun where you intended to stop. More a matter of getting use to, but I am still interested in the disk brakes for the back. I would be interested in larger rotors too.



If I were in the market for the 19. 5” wheels today, I would have put in an order to go with the Rickson aluminum wheels. I am very happy with what I have, but was not prepared to deal with the tires sticking out 3” past the fenders (hence the custom fenders). It looks great and rides good (still room for improvement empty but better than stock), but I spent more than I wanted. I’m not complaining, seldom does anyone get something really good for cheep.



Sorry I over verbalized, I have to go now and apologize on another thread for some misinformation I conveyed. Later.
 
Excellent string here. I was doing some research on Rickson and 19. 5's and found this which should be of interest: http://www.turtleexpedition.com/news/ The issue of wheel weight is settling in and I appreciate Vaugn presenting it that way. It is truly something to avoid but is it avoidable? The aluminum rims are for 99 and back according to the Rickson website. Alcoa's are not ready but are in process (without an adapter). I was going to order steel rims with a solid face but perhaps should have the maker cut holes. Yuk.



Fest3er, thanks for sharing the sordid details of your 225 experience. Yes, I cannot load the truck as much as the tires will handle but I think I can hit 4000 lbs and I want to be able to go faster than the 45 you had to. The overkill (245's) fills the wheel well at 33" and the real issue for me here is ride (wall stiffness and pressure). With overkill I can hopefully deflate more. The tread width is 9. 25 actual inches if I recall (I was measuring so many yesterday--this would be Toyo 608). Your TY303 are rated mud and snow and nice to see you are getting those miles out of them. Hmmmmmm (After reading the Turtle stuff I was overwhelmed with their bombing. Is there any adventure left? I drove a 50 Chev Carryall (the Montana Navy truck) to AK in 1970 and THAT was an adventure. ) Are we overdoing it here? Sheeese.



RaDodge, thanks for coming back with all that detail. I read every word twice and will again. I think there is traction available with sniping. At 11 bucks a tire it could allow some hook up and stopping not normally available. And, it is exciting to think of the handling coming my way with 19. 5's. I have always run tall tires and they get "soupy" with the higher sidewalls over stock. The bigger wheel, lower sidewalls and thicker sidewalls are winners for sure. Are your Michelins the same as the Turtle ones and are yours single wall as well? It is amazing you can stuff 35 inches under the Dodge. I want a skinny as possible tire as well and thing the 245's are a match for me for load, width (so I don't wear out my steering too soon) and ride. Ride is still an elusive thing for me. That is why the Kelderman goes on and I will update on that. Doing a Gear Vendor at same time plus Ranchos. Oh, Lord. Is my new name for the pickup, the "Idol"?

Gotta go to bed. Thanks again, lots to ponder. George
 
I opted for the Michelin XZTs mud and snow. Traction through some muddy Colorado four wheel drive roads going elk hunting was as good as earlier Goodyear Extragrip Workhorse which I liked alot (for traction). Stopping on wet pavement? I learned how to spell S-C-A-R-E-Y. For $85 I added a grooving iron to my collection of tools and siped those bad boys. That seems to have made quite a difference. On the XZTs, I cut a 1/16" groove right in the middle of each lug and I can regroove them as they wear down. The ride unloaded is doggone rough. I added 2" longer DT control arms with polyeurethane bushings and that helped alot. A couple thousand pounds in the bed makes the ride ok. The tires seem to be wearing quite well without excessive rotation, less rotation than the Goodyears took. I get alot of comments and carrying heavy loads in the bed--over 3k--makes you like 'em. Rough ride and stopping are definitely downsides. Cost--well you can't justify them in my mind but when did that stop us from buying stuff we want.
 
As for the cost issue, I was getting 25,000 miles out of the stock 16 inch tires. I got 80,000 miles out of my first set of 19. 5's. Been there, done that, paid for itself.



I had the Michelin XDE-MS 225/70/19. 5 tires mounted on my truck with 70 psi on the front and 65 psi on the rear last evening.



With my first set of 19. 5's, the Bridgestone 724F 245/70/19. 5's, it was important to break the tires in by driving several hundred miles and then letting the tread cure for 24 hours. When driving the Bridgestone's for the first time the tread flex was so pronounced I had to pull over and make sure the lug nuts were tight. They never did handle wet road conditions very well, actually they scared me to death a couple of times.



I got up early this morning to drive a couple hundred miles for the break in period and low and behold it was raining like a cow pi$$ing on a flat rock. Off I went, no tread flex and they handled very well in really hard rain. I hit a large body of standing water in a construction area and drove (not hydroplaned) right through it at 60 miles per hour.



I'm happy.
 
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Thanks for jumping in Believer. In the desire to tune the ride roughness out of the truck I wonder if there is a "best riding" 19. 5. We are taking a tire designed for about three times the weight (I had them on a 93 Cobra 22K lb motorhome) and putting them on a lighter truck. My tire guy said the rubber is harder, hense the longer wear but scary in wet stopping. And harder riding comes with the turf. Hmmmmmm Because my truck is my car as well (I am determined!) the ride is a big issue. I was out bouncing down the freeway yesterday thinking about that Kelderman. I don't want to make things worse so I gotta keep digging here. Thanks again. George
 
Believer, your Michelin is apparently the 245. Is that considered a single sidewall?



Dowd, how does your set ride? George
 
80,000 miles?

Is that all??? I have about 15-16,000 on my 285/70 303's and they just now started to change color... let alone show ANY sign of wear! At the current rate, I would expect WELL over 100k on my current set. I didnt buy them for load capacity, but for lower rpm at highway speed, and therefore better mileage. Using my boost guage as my guide, I now run 72mph at 1760rpm while blowing about 1-2lbs of boost and get 23+ mpg on the hwy. Combo city/hwy is ALWAYS over 21mpg. You get the taller tire without the rolling resistance and air turbulence of wide tires (ie. 315's). Besides, they make the truck look so damn cool!

Brian
 
Re: 80,000 miles?

Originally posted by BCFAST

Besides, they make the truck look so damn cool!

Brian



Amen.



p. s. I wish I could get 14mpg. Heavy footed I guess.



Dual Designs was claiming over 300K miles on some Michelin 245/70R19. 5 XZA's.
 
Yowzer! Wonder what the circumference of those are! Looks real cool. Does not look like the adapter moves the wheel out much. Wonder how a SRW would work with that set-up? George
 
I just installed a set of the Rickson 19. 5 steel wheels, (don't have the money for the aluminum and couldn't wait for them to be available for the 2001's. ) I had many calls to the people at Rickson and they were very helpful. In the end I went with the Michelin XDE M/S. The size is 225/70R19. 5. When I installed them I didn't know what to use for pressure. So I did some testing. I used a sheet of paper under a layer of carbon paper to see what the contact patch and pattern looked like. It surprised me to get a even load over the entire tire the pressure needed to be about 90 PSI. Below that and the sides were definitely carrying more wight than the middle. I could only test up to 35 MPH because the speed limit in front of my house in the development is 25 MPH.



Note that some of the 225's are available in load range 'G', this is what I got and they seem to ride well enough considering the assemblies weigh 126 pounds each.



I did run them at 72 MPH for about 130 miles last night and they were barley warm when I stopped. There was no noticeable difference in stopping force or distance. (my truck is a 2001. 5 so I have the 4 wheel disk brakes. )



Any response to this approach of determining pressure will be appreciated.



Mike Schevey
 
Hi Mike. Why did you buy them? I am glad to see that your 4 disc truck had no problem stopping the wheels/tires any more than usual. I am trying to get to 4500# or more per wheel as I may carry up to 4000 or so which would put the 225's at their edge. I would like the skinniest tire for protecting the ball joints and less rolling resistence but the 245's seem to have the load capacity. How was ride difference? George
 
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