2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Tire Rotation

[Mingoglia]

Hey. Curious how everyone is doing their tire rotation. On past vehicles I used my 3 1/2 ton floor jack and jacked under the frame around the balance point and got the entire side up. This allowed rotating to be done quite easily because I didn't have to jack the front, use the jack stand, then jack the back up to do a rotation. I used this method on my '91 Nissan truck (commuter vehicle), my '99 Expedition, and my '95 Dodge 1/2 ton.



I'm thinking about doing the same with my '01 Ram 3500 since my floor jack will do it but I'm very worried about the frame supporting that much weight in such a small area. After all, this about a 7,500lb truck and a good portion of that weight is in the front. Think I'm safe to do this? How about if i use a stout piece of lumber to distribute the weight a little?



thanks.



Mike

 

[DavidC]

For what it's worth I jack it up on individual axles and put it on jackstands. The chance of something going wrong (Murphy's Law) is just to great and probably to expensive (Medical or Mechanical). Please be safe, we do not need to have anything happen to any members.

 

[illflem]

Mike, I use exactly the same one jack method as you on my 2500.

On the 3500 I don't rotate, tires seem to wear evenly anyways.

 

[Duane George]

what i do.....

is to jack up the rear end and put 2 jack stand under the axles.

then i take my floor jack and jack up the left front tire take it off and put the left rear on the front. then i jack up the right font and take the right rear to the front. the fronts go to the opposite side. works good. 4 jacks would nice.



Duane

 

[shendren]

i run mine past the local tires store and they do it for free. no risk other than someone else holding the air gun. i watch over their back.

 

[Mingoglia]

How long of an extension is needed to be able to torque the wheels down with my torque wrench (on my 3500)? I haven't had a wheel off before on a dually and I'm waking up early tomorrow morning to do it (it's still over 100 here in Phoenix in the afternoon). I want to make sure I don't have to run to Walmart quick tonight to get a longer extension because the longest I have is about 6".

 

[illflem]

Mingoglia, 6" will do if you use a deep socket, otherwise you probably need an 8". If you use one hand to support the head of the torque wench while tightening it won't be accurate, resist the temptation.

 

[Mingoglia]

Thanks a lot illflem! Yeah, I'm extra careful when I use the torque wrench with an extension because of what you mentioned. I believe however as long as I get it in the ballpark (when talking about lugnuts) I'm OK as long as I use the same 'method' with each lugnut. When tightening lugnuts, my priority is to get all of them as close as possible to each other so they're pulling the same on the rotor. I believe unbalanced torque on the studs leads to warped rotors more easily then having them slightly over-torqued by supporting the wrench slightly. Guess it's better than putting my IR2131 impact on 5 and 'letter 'er have it' I'm headed to Wally world... Figure I could always use another extension and although they're not the best tools I'm atleast getting a chance to do some tool shopping. ;

 

[radixr]

You really only need a jackstand under one wheel. Just keep moving the wheel you just removed to wherever it goes.



I would never trust a tire shop to do a rotation and properly torque the lug nuts unless I knew the tire monkey who was going to do it and had confidence he would do it right. I know this is overkill, but I torque my lug nuts in 3 steps (50, 100 and 145 ft-lb) using the recommended pattern. There aren't many tire shops that will do that.

 

[Mingoglia]

I ended up using the jacking method Duane suggested. I jacked up the rear end and used to jack stands to keep the rear up. I then jacked up each side individually in the front as needed. One thing interesting though is the front of these trucks are so heavy when I jacked up the front right behind the tire on the frame the back of the truck lifted slightly off the jack stand... .



On the 3500's the manual (with my '01) shows swapping the outside dual to the inside, the inside dual to the front and the front to the rear outside... keeping all tires on the same side.

 

[Fireman Dave]

I do the same as Duane.

 

[M Barnett]

O K, Illflem, I'm ready for another lesson. I use a nice snap-on torgue wrench and I've never heard that you can't support the head of the wrench. What if your on a shallow nut or bolt and worried about the socket slipping off? Learn something everyday. Would the torque be less or more if you support the head?

Michael

 

[illflem]

Michael, it will read less than it really is. The problem usually only happens with an extension. You have to get the last click without supporting the head to be right on. If you use a crowfoot on a torque wrench it will also read less, sometimes by quite a bit.

 

[M Barnett]

Thanks for the reply, Bill. I knew about the crowsfoot and have a conversion chart for using them.

Michael

 

[Mingoglia]

Luckily lug nut torque isn't an exact science. The Dodge owners manual gives you a pretty good range for the torque to be in so if you set your torque wrench to the maximum recommended even if you do it wrong you should still be within the spec... . Now doing heads... that's another story.

 

[MWinters]

illflem,



can you go over this torque reading inaccuracy again ? If torque is a force (your right hand) times a lever arm ( the length of your torque wrench from your right hand to where the extension is), then your left hand is supporting the head of the torque wrench, how does the extension length come into play ? & why is the location of your left hand critical ?



Mike.

 

[shendren]

work is torque per unit of time. if the cheater bar gets longer... then less force is required to do the same amount of work.

 

[46mech]

MWinters,



Not that the method of torquing is the topic of this post, but I'd have to agree with ya on this. Having spent the last 20 yrs as a helicopter mech, torquing procedures are stressed. I'm confident that holding the head of the tq wrench doesn't change the value of the torque..... lever length will. A crowsfoot can change the value because it, in effect, it does change the lever length, but the added length is only about an inch so it would probably not be too noticeable. In all of our maintenance manuals there is a formula for figuring tq settings depending on the length of the tq wrench when using a tool such as a crowsfoot or "dogbone. "

Now... . maybe there is something to be said for loss of tq due the twisting of an extension, especially the longer it was, but again I'd bet it would barely be noticeable.



Back to the topic. I don't see how you would be able to rotate the tires according to the owners manual by only lifting one side..... I put mine up on jackstands on all four corners.

 

[illflem]

I'm just repeating the instructions that came with all the torque wenches I own. When you use an extension the wrench wants to twist, when you put your hand on the head to keep this from happening you are absorbing torque with your hand, otherwise you wouldn't need to do it. Seems like pretty simple physics to me. Could be it makes little difference, I've never experimented, it's easier just to follow the instructions.