2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Tire Siping

[Believer]

I'm looking to improve wet pavement performance with my 19. 5 Michelin XZT's. They have a mud&snow tread but no siping. I live in St Louis but can find no place to get siping done. Has anyone siped their bad boy 19. 5s? Anyone know where to get siping done anywhere close to St Loius? I'd be interested in anyone's experience with siping and change in wet traction. Thanks.

 

[illflem]

After having the tires on all my rigs siped for the past 5 years I wouldn't even consider not doing it, big difference on wet and ice. Les Schwab does siping in the west, I've heard that National does it in the east.

 

[Okie-Go]

I don't want to be the bad guy here but I had some as MIchelins siped and noticed the ones on back kind of chipping real bad. I took it to another store of the same company and they gave me brand new MS michelins. The store manager told me they have been notified in writing to NOT sipe Michelin tires. He said the reason for the chipping and wear was the high amount of friction on the rear of the truck with the loads of what I do with it. I don't know if this is true, this is what the manager said. The tire shop was discount tire in Houston.

 

[ftb87]

Do you have a Discount Tire store their? I know they sipe.





Frank

 

[TomGolden]

Ok, time to break down and display my extreme ignorance here.



Just what exactly is tire siping anyway??? Never heard of it, at least not by that name.



All these posts about it finally made me curious enough to ask.



Thanks guys,

Tom

 

[DRR-24V]

Tom-Don't feel bad.!

I am sitting here thinking the same thing. We used to re-groove tires for the Sand Dunes but I have never heard of this term.

 

[Idaho Native]

Siping

OK, here goes with an attempt at an explanation.



Siping is essentially cutting the tread face across the tire with an extremely sharp rotary knife. The last one I saw used a blade that looked like a miniature auger, with the edges sharpened beyond belief. The tire was mounted on a system that rotated it while the blade moved back and forth across the tread. I don't remember how deep the cut was. It gives the tire more contact with the surface you're driving over... allows them to actually "grip" very slick surfaces like packed snow and ice. Used to have all of the tires on our vehicles siped... I even had a set of used ones done but I had to take each of them off and remove any debris, even the tiniest amount, from the factory cracks and crannies. The factory now puts some siping in tread patterns, but it is highly dependent on the manufacturer.



Siping is sometimes confused with "tractionizing", which sets the tire on a pair of rollers with tiny hooks that dig into the tire tread surface. Siping is much better because it does not remove any of the tire compound. I also noticed higher mileage from a set of tires as they supposedly ran a bit cooler, but most of the "cooler" information was word of mouth.



I can tell you from personal experience that it works great.



Loren

 

[Extreme1]

Sipe Hunt?

Siping depth at the local place: 7/16"



We did it on all our ice racing tires. It really does help. It will shorten tread life on a soft snow tire though!



Try a tire shop that does heavy trucks a lot, they still sipe most recapped tires.

 

[azgearpro]

siping

Defently fo to Discount to have it done, I paid $11 a tire to have it done. I know poeple that live in the high country swear by it.

 

[drawson]

During one of the big storms this year i had my BFGs MT siped and WHAT a improvement!!!! Les Schwad did mine.

 

[wtrenholm]

You could try a cap shop or a tire shop that deals in heavy truck tires and recaps.



I've had a couple sets siped in the past. It sure made a difference on packed snow and ice. As Idaho Native mentioned sipping increases the number of "biting" edges the tread face has. Mine were done by the company cap shop where I was working. It was only $4 a tire but that was quite a few years ago.





Wayne

 

[B KIRK]

The reason you can not sipe a Michelin tire is that the factory sipe depth is as deep as the tread depth. Go to a tire dealer that handles different brands and look at the displays. Any other brand, the sipe line depth is about 1/4 of the tread depth. Spread the sipe open on a Michelin, you will see it opens wider and goes to bottom of tread. To add additional siping would weaken tread, and cause chipping along factory sipes. Most other tires ,when they are about 50% worn, show no sipe lines. Also look at a tire made for ice and snow,(usually passenger car tires). They have a series of rows that are siped. I have also noticed that Michelins need rotated more, because tires mounted on the front of truck cup along the tread and the sipes. Never had to rotate another brand as often.



Brad

 

[klenger]

http://www.discounttire.com/tireSiping.html

 

[JohnE]

perils of siping

If you sipe tires expect to <b>SHORTEN</b> your tread life. I love the added traction from cutting the tread blocks, but was dismayed at the the rear tire wear as in chunks of the tread block breaking off. I got in contact with Les Schwab and finally talked to the store manager that did my job.



I got the big blow off with a &quot;expect a diesel to eat your siped tires&quot;. That and the fact I am now 1500 miles from that store also gave the &quot;if I cannot see it, I cannot warranty it&quot;. That really soured me on Les Schwab. The quality of the siping was not uniform either.



As other have posted, if you want siping, look for a truck tire center such as a Bandag tire dealer. They're the only place that sipes around here. I would also trust them over ANY auto tire store.



I posted my story and digital photos of siped tires on mywebspace at <a href=http://membersites. nwbombers.com/johne/ target=_blank>NWBombers</a>



-John

 

[nwinters]

Abround 3 years ago I was looking into siping for the 32" MTs on my CJ-7. Aroufnd here nobody sipes and I had no luck finding a place who would do it. I even got in touch with the people who make the siping machines to find out who they sell the equipment to in the area, no luck.

Anyone know a place that will do siping in the New England area?

Thanks,

Nate

 

[illflem]

Sold on siping

John E, looking at your pics and description you can't really blame siping on your problems, more the low quality of the job. Some tires can't be siped, not sure about yours though. I was told that siping increases tire life because the tires run cooler. When I replaced my stock tires with Toyos Schwab only two of the type I wanted in stock so I only had siped tires on the rear for a couple of weeks. Even though this test is far from scientific due to different tire brands, degree of wear and having the siped tires only on the rear-- touching the tires after a long drive the siped tires were very much cooler. My siped Toyo ATs now have around 60k on them and look new, I wouldn't doubt that they go another 60k. The traction is so good that I rarely use 4WD even on compact snow and ice roads. Before siping I would have run studs. I'm sold on siping. I have to wonder if there is some sort of climatic factor that makes siping not appropriate on the east coast. Could be why it's hard to come by and few have heard of it.

 

[DEZLPWR]

Discount Tire feeding me a line of BS?

I bought my 4 35" BFG A/T KO's from discount a few months ago and told them to sipe them and they refused. They said they would on any other truck except the diesels. They said with the diesels and their large amount of torque, the siped tires grip too well and chunks of the tire get torn..... This is similar to what JohnE posted earlier. I think they are feeding me a line, because other tire places including Les Schwab will sipe any of their tires installed on diesels.

I am confused now.....

 

[Bob Horrell]

I have been siping for years and have found it works well on the diesel if you follow the following:

Check tires for factory siping and if it is already well siped - don't add more as too much will weaken the tread

Only sipe about one half the tread depth at a time - too deep also weakens the tread

If siping on big blocks like mud terrains - only go about one third the depth to keep the blocks stronger

Siping seems to make the tires last longer and it sure does increase the bite on snow or dirt roads. I tow heavy loads (18,000 to 24,000lbs) about 90 to 95% of the time and have had no detrimental effects.

 

[drawson]

John E, I think a bigger problem here is the Goodyear R/Ts. I have seen them tire chunk all by themselves. I worked for Goodyear for 12 years and I saw more problems with those R/Ts than any other truck tire. They give Goodyear a bad name!!!!



I like Bill(illflem) am very sold on siping. IMO siping work better on tires that don't have any sipes on them to begin with. Sipping a tire that already has sipes will weaken the tread and possibly cause chunking.



As far as the diesel think goes I know alot of trucker that won't run in the winter with out siped tires. i think the bigger problem is the light truck tires that we put on our high torque diesels aren't up to the torque. i would like to see a company built a good traction tire just for us bombing diesel dudes









illflem, what do them Toyo tire you are running look like?

 

[JohnE]

Guys;

Re-read my first post. <em>I love the advantages of siped tires</em>.

I am only angry at the poor quality of the siping as well as the poor customer service from Les Schwab. I expected a corporation that promotes siping to stand behind the service AND tell you of the hazards up front. That was the whole intention of my warning on siping. That is also why I said go to a commercial truck tire center. They are usually more professional about things, too.



Look at my webpage on siping. The fronts were properly siped and are wearing fantastic. I will keep them on the front due to the enhanced <b>stopping traction</b>. Both rear tires were ruined by poor siping and I cannot get them replaced by the business that ruined them.

The rears will get replaced once I find some affordable snow tires.



I am very aware of the inconsistent quality from Goodyear on the Wrangler RT/S. I just couldn't pass up $225 for a complete set of new tires mounted, balanced, and siped. IMHO, a good siping does improve the RT/S tires.



Does that clarify?



-John