Tool Differences

[CBlack]

I've been shopping around for zero turn mowers (too many damn choices!) and I asked if there were a difference between the engine on a commercial and homeowner mower. He said a night and day difference. Even between the Echo brand trimmers and such sold at Home Depot versus a private lawn shop.



That led us to a discussion about tools. He said he knows a DeWalt rep and they were talking about the tools you buy at Home Depot versus one you buy at a specialty store (local lumber yard, contractor tool house, etc). According to him, the rep said if you open one from Home Depot/Lowes and one from a private place, you'll see a significant difference in quality of parts.



I've always suspected this, but was wondering if anyone else has ever heard of this. I'm prone to believe it because I thought I got a "deal" on a Milwaukee 18V Hammerdrill/Driver for $169. With constant use, the battery lasts an hour or less. And the label on the drill says, Made in China.



What do you guys think or have you heard anything of the differences?

 

[MVenditti]

I bought my Dewalt tools at home depot. They may have different model #for home depot but I think they are the same as elsewhere. With their buying power they can sell them cheaper than other shops. Have had no problems with mine.

 

[jakprince]

If you can afford it get a commercial mower it may cost more up front but will pay off in the long run. Dixie chopper is what alot of lawn service guys use.

 

[mickeyblueyes]

I believe it because when you are sitting in the sales seat selling to HD or such and you present your product, they counter with things like :change that screw to a rivet or some other cost cutting measure. So your $25 widget has to get sold for $18. there is only one way to do that cheapen it. I can not speak for dewalt or milwaukee, but my Milwaukee 28v lith ion batts are not to great , a sawzall knocks them dead in a few mins. and they are not old or over used. and they came from a "tool house" so who knows. yes they are made in China.

 

[CBlack]

I bought my Dewalt tools at home depot. They may have different model #for home depot but I think they are the same as elsewhere. With their buying power they can sell them cheaper than other shops. Have had no problems with mine.

I've had a DeWalt 14. 4 drill for over 10 years and it still works fine, but the batteries are crap. I even bought a new one and it's crap. I agree with the buying power. Also allows them to say, "Make it cheaper so I can sell it cheaper. "

If you can afford it get a commercial mower it may cost more up front but will pay off in the long run. Dixie chopper is what alot of lawn service guys use.

Funny you mention that, because that's what I'm leaning towards... a commercial grade Dixie Chopper. Especially because I want to add to my property later.

I believe it because when you are sitting in the sales seat selling to HD or such and you present your product, they counter with things like :change that screw to a rivet or some other cost cutting measure. So your $25 widget has to get sold for $18. there is only one way to do that cheapen it. I can not speak for dewalt or milwaukee, but my Milwaukee 28v lith ion batts are not to great , a sawzall knocks them dead in a few mins. and they are not old or over used. and they came from a "tool house" so who knows. yes they are made in China.

And I always thought Milwaukee were supposed to be rated very highly, durable, long lasting, etc etc. I know some of the tool review magazines give them high reviews most of the time.



I'm curious to talk to a rep and see what they have to say.

 

[p-Bar]

heard that from the plumbers too about the garbage disposers

 

[AHofner]

I'm not sure I believe that. If I were the owner of a company with a good name, I don't think it would make sense to cheapen my product just so I could sell it at a big box store. Home Depot and Lowe's both cater to the professional jobber and he's not going to buy junk twice, so what's the benefit of cheapening a product? I bought my 18V LI Millwaukee drill from Home Depot and I'll admit, it does say "Made in Maylasia" on the side of it, but that's just the result of today's global economy. It still says "Milwaukee Tool" on the side of it too and I believe that if a company like Millwaukee or DeWalt puts it's name on a piece of equipment, then it will be a quality piece that should last you for a very long time if it is cared for properly. Kind of like a Dodge truck.

 

[mickeyblueyes]

I'm not sure I believe that. If I were the owner of a company with a good name, I don't think it would make sense to cheapen my product just so I could sell it at a big box store. Home Depot and Lowe's both cater to the professional jobber and he's not going to buy junk twice, so what's the benefit of cheapening a product? I bought my 18V LI Millwaukee drill from Home Depot and I'll admit, it does say "Made in Maylasia" on the side of it, but that's just the result of today's global economy. It still says "Milwaukee Tool" on the side of it too and I believe that if a company like Millwaukee or DeWalt puts it's name on a piece of equipment, then it will be a quality piece that should last you for a very long time if it is cared for properly. Kind of like a Dodge truck.

I wish that were true but the CEOs of these corporations are under serious pressure from Wall Street for their stocks to preform for the share holders. They will not hesitate to pull out all the stops to gain market share from the next closest competitor. I know it for a fact as my son in law sat in the selling seat for one of the above companies, they said we'll take it BUT it has to be $2. 00 cheaper so do this and this and take out that. Thats how its done. They then send the order to china to be manufactured to the specs and Big Box gets it product at ITS price and you buy a brand name thats been compromised. At a bargain price,and the guy in the real tool store or Snap On dealer spends his day trying to convince a skeptic( Somewhat) American population. One again I will say I go way out of my way to buy American products, If one of you guys want some thing American made and cant find it post it here we will find it for you. Be it tools, shoes, jeans, guns. They all can be had.

 

[AHofner]

Mickey,

Thank you for that enlightening post. I do try to buy American whenever possible. I am a big believer in "Buy it once, buy it right" (Which is prolly why we all drive Dodge CTD's) I don't know if you are at liberty to discuss this, but in what ways has your son-in-law's company reduced it's quality to meet the demands of the large stores? Is it housing materials, clutch components, motor materials, torque ratings (for pwr tools)? I've been building my tool collection as the need arises and always want to get the product that will last. I do try to patronize the local shops whenever possible, however when I want to check out a product and they don't have one in stock to look at, while HD or Lowe's does, it makes it difficult to shop there. Case in point, I've been wanting a Milwaukee jobsite radio for awhile and went to the local guy to check one out to see if it would meet my criteria he did not have one in stock and could not get one for me for at least a week. HD had 4 in stock and were at the same price point as the local guy. I am going to purchase it from the local guy as it is not something that I need right now, but tools aren't always like that. Please don't get me wrong, I know the local guy can't afford to have one of everything in stock. But usually my tools are purchased on an as-needed basis and I am not always that patient.

Thank you for any information you can provide.



Andrew

 

[Dl5treez]

Can't speak about other brands, but here is my true life dealing with Dewalt.



A company I once worked for purchased a large order of Dewalt tools (about 2,500 total) from Fastenal on a super duper exceptionally great deal corporate industrial mondo discount... . Approx. 40% off average retail pricing.



Not shortly after the delivery, our various plants around the midwest were having multitudes of warranty issues with the new Dewalt tools. Drills stripping out the drive gears, chucks not holding, reciprocating saws breaking, etc etc etc.



Fastenal was quick to warranty with new replacement tools.



Per the Fastenal rep in our area, and this is true to what he said:



Dewalt, as many know, is owned by Black & Decker. The Dewalt tools we had purchased that failed were "accidently built with B&D low end internals; plastic drive gears, low end Jacobs chucks, etc; parts and pieces normally used on the low end homeowner Black & Decker line.



B&D apparently was building Dewalt and B&D tools on the same production line and "pieces were accidently" switched.



Dewalt was quick to fix everything and promised "it would never happen again. "



Those Dewalt tools never did work quite like the older ones, or ones purchased later on. They all just felt 'different. ' Power didn't seem right, the feel of the tool under load didn't seem right, battery life is very poor... it was hard to put a finger on the definite cause, but that run just felt cheaper than other Dewalts I had used before and since.





I have heard this Dewalt urban legend before but can assure my experience is 100% truthful.









Your results may vary...

 

[DSeamans]

Faucets

heard that from the plumbers too about the garbage disposers

That was definately true. When I was still plumbing, people would gripe that I charged $110 for a faucet they could get at HD for $40. I would tell them to get it and bring it in and if they still wanted it after I showed the difference I'd install it for free. Our's was all brass and chrome, HD's was all plastic, inside and out. They would be the same btand, box and part #. That has changed some as you can get the better faucets, but the prices aren't much better.



With the mowers, and all power equipment, there are differences. A homeowners mower that sees a few hours a year doesn't need to be as strong as one that gets 40hrs/wk. Commercial motors have better cranks, bearings, sleaves and pistons, and some even valves. If you plan on abUSING it, go commercial. Dad in law has a commercial dixon that he even mows pastures with and it has over 10 years on it with no problems.



Dave

 

[Dieselnut59]

If you are looking at a top of the line zero turn mower, look at Kubota. In my opinion, they can't be beat. The engine is the best in the business (and properly fueled!), the powertrains are rock solid and the decks are the strongest I have seen. I have several friends with landscape businesses who use their Kubota zero turn mowers daily and they have been flawless for years. I have been very happy with my Kubota riding mower with the 18 horsepower 3 cylinder diesel, hydrostat drive and 54" deck. I bought it new in 1999. It is made entirely in Japan and USA.

As for the tools, you are correct. The lines sold to the big box stores are usually "cheaper" built, therefore the "cheaper" price. Anything I shop for, I go to the store that specializes in it. The one size fits all "big box" stores do not carry the highest quality of anything available. I bought my DeWalt 18 volt battery powered tools at Fastenal (Made in Mexico) and got some extra batteries at Lowe's (made in Japan). The most important thing to do is look at the country of origin on the tools. If they are made in a quality control conscious country (USA, Japan, Germany, or even Korea and Mexico), you can be fairly well assured it is the higher quality tool. If it says "made in China", you can damn near guarantee it is junk. Bosch has GREAT tools if you get the Germany made ones at the specialty stores, but they also have a "cheap" version that is sold in the discount big box stores... made in China.

You get what you pay for. I have never been disappointed in any USA made hand tools I have bought. If it comes from a country known for quality, you will pay a little extra, but you will be MUCH happier in the long run.

 

[rbattelle]

I'm not sure I believe that.

To some extent, I agree, AHofner. For several years now I have moved to a system of buying all my tools by manufacturer part number. I determine the part number of the specific tool I want, and then I go find that part number wherever I can. I believe this probably prevents buying any of the manufacturers "low end" versions, since any change in specification should result in a modified part number (otherwise, how would the manufacturer distinguish them?).



Any manufacturer deliberately concealing cheap tools by applying the same part number to the low-end line as the high-end is being dishonest, and is not someone with whom I want to do business.

Not shortly after the delivery, our various plants around the midwest were having multitudes of warranty issues with the new Dewalt tools.

Honestly, I've never understood the fascination with DeWalt. I own one Dewalt tool - a 4. 5" angle grinder bought new from Home Depot around 1996. But I don't use it in an industrial setting - just the usual light homeowner stuff (lots of cutoff wheels and grinding mill scale - I'm sure it has <500 hr of use on it).



Anyway, let's face it - HD and Lowe's are mostly designed for people who need a tool cheap and now. The last 2 power tools I bought were a Skill worm drive saw and a Milwaukee Sawzall. Got the worm saw at Sears (buying according to part number) and the Sawzall somewhere online.



I do enjoy browsing the tool displays at HD and Lowe's. But that's just because I like tools. Sometimes the cheapness of the stuff is absolutely laughable. You should see what they did to the Delta 12" Miter saw I bought 8 years ago. Today's model (different part number) is a pathetic shadow of the one I bought.



Once in awhile, you can get a good deal if you pay attention. Remember when Nicholson switched a bunch of their stuff to China? Well, for awhile you could get the good US made stuff by searching in the back of the racks at Lowe's while still paying the cheaper Chinese price.



Same thing happened when Vise Grip jumped ship.



Ryan

 

[Dl5treez]

Any manufacturer deliberately concealing cheap tools by applying the same part number to the low-end line as the high-end is being dishonest, and is not someone with whom I want to do business.

In my own experience (above) Dewalt is the only company I have seen this happen with, but most likely it happens with others as well.

Honestly, I've never understood the fascination with DeWalt. I own one Dewalt tool - a 4. 5" angle grinder bought new from Home Depot around 1996. But I don't use it in an industrial setting - just the usual light homeowner stuff (lots of cutoff wheels and grinding mill scale - I'm sure it has <500 hr of use on it).



Anyway, let's face it - HD and Lowe's are mostly designed for people who need a tool cheap and now. The last 2 power tools I bought were a Skill worm drive saw and a Milwaukee Sawzall. Got the worm saw at Sears (buying according to part number) and the Sawzall somewhere online.



I do enjoy browsing the tool displays at HD and Lowe's. But that's just because I like tools. Sometimes the cheapness of the stuff is absolutely laughable. You should see what they did to the Delta 12" Miter saw I bought 8 years ago. Today's model (different part number) is a pathetic shadow of the one I bought.



Once in awhile, you can get a good deal if you pay attention. Remember when Nicholson switched a bunch of their stuff to China? Well, for awhile you could get the good US made stuff by searching in the back of the racks at Lowe's while still paying the cheaper Chinese price.



Same thing happened when Vise Grip jumped ship.



Ryan

I've found sticking with one brand of tool is cause for concern. I'm of the belief that the 'best' of each type aren't made in the same color, and to true truly have a wide selection of the best tools, one will have numerous brands and models.



My ex-employer bought Dewalt because of the price Fastenal gave them, but had many tools by Bosch, Milwaukee, Delta, etc also.

 

[BK]

I believe it's brand dependent... .

Toro and Ariens came out with another whole line of product to deal with the pricing demands at HD. Ariens makes the difference distinct by calling one line either econo or homeowner, the other PRO line.
Toro, from what I've seen, doesn't.

Both are NOT the same , top quality units you can be had at the franchised dealers, not HD.

In 1st had comparing of snow blowers and lawnmowers, big difference...
Roller bearings are replaced with sleeves, motors are different, and so on... .

I've heard the Echo brand is the same across the board, but no real 1st hand knowledge...



My Toro mower from my dealer has been great, my buddies toro mower from HD has disappointed him. We looked underneath, and beside the obvious difference in the decks, other items in the drive and again bearings can be seen. .
But there nearly a 2 to 1 difference in price...

When there's a slight difference, ok I chaulk it up to the buying power (25%), but when it's 2:1, well, you get what you pay for...

Ever read the article "The man that said no to Walmart" .....
It's the account of Snapper Vs Walmart...

 

[Dieselnut59]

Ever read the article "The man that said no to Walmart" .....

It's the account of Snapper Vs Walmart...

I gotta read that. I wish more good manufacturers would do that. After all, if you want to be known for good products and reputation, you do not want to be associated with a store that has neither!

 

[kenny61]

The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart | Fast Company

 

[Dieselnut59]

Thanks for the link Kenny. Awesome article! I wish more manufacturers would do that same thing. Instead of trashing their name and reputation by being known as a cheap "discount" product, just tell those a holes NO! I like this part: Typical Wal-Mart for sure!:

"Snapper is the sort of high-quality nameplate, like Levi Strauss, that Wal-Mart hopes can ultimately make it more Target-like. He suggested that Snapper find a lower-cost contract manufacturer. He suggested producing a separate, lesser-quality line with the Snapper nameplate just for Wal-Mart. Just like Levi did. "

Cheapass chinese junk, in other words. Pay a "discount" price and get a discount quality pile of imported junk. No thanks!

 

[rscurtis]

There is an old expression, "sleep with dogs and you'll wake up with fleas". This is what happens when you get into bed with HD, Lowe's or Walmart. This is what happened to Homelite and McCullough. They were fat and happy selling great volumes to HD, until the freight cars full of returns showed up on their rail siding, and HD wanted credit for defective merchandise. A number of years ago Snapper stuck their big toe into Walmart and quickly pulled it out. You also won't find Stihl sold in box stores, as it's a privately owned company that is not dictated to by Wall Street or the big boys at HD. (Does the name Bob Nardelli come to mind?). It is interesting they are the world's largest chain saw manufacturer and they DON'T sell in Lowe's or HD. They do just fine with their 8000 USA dealers. And they don't have to make the stuff in China either.

 

[FFeiller]

i personally have not found any battery opperated tool to be long lasting. i have dewalt, milwaukee, bosch, skill, and a couple of others i can't think of at the moment. none are made in the USA, even bosch use to be a good german tool, it certainly isn't now. you have to remember there is very little compitition between mfgs. so many "competitive" brands are made by the same company.



you will never see the quality of tools again, like what was available 10 yrs ago no matter under what name or where purchased. thanks again wallstreet