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Torque converter Which one?

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1st Gen Converter search

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Hi,

I'm getting ready to do a torque converter with better fluid coupling. I talked to a guy at DTT and he said I would be good with a 518-89 that they sell for $750 and a few weeks wait. . There is also a place I read about here that builds them in AZ can't find the name. . They were much cheaper and probably wouldn't take 3-5 weeks to get me one... Anyone here know why I should just spend the big loot and do the wait?..... The guy at DTT said the 518-89 was so tight that it really wouldn't be worth the money and hassle to go with a lock-up... . How does the TC company in AZ compare?. . I only want to do this once!. . Thanks for any info... ... .
 
torque converter

Same question as csnider. I am looking at changing from an automatic to manual but keep hearing that the new converters solve the issues. Have not previously heard that anyone built a converter that was 'so tight' that it superceeds the need for lockup.



James
 
An 89 would be pretty tight unless you are pushing plenty of fuel early. From what is in your sig you would be close but a 90 would give you room for error.



Hughs makes a decent converter as does TCI for the diesels. I think Hughs is out of AZ. Phoenix Transmissions will also build a better cobverter to spec for a diesel. A DTT would be the top of the line and you won't be dissappointed.



Code:
The guy at DTT said the 518-89 was so tight that it really wouldn't be worth the money and hassle to go with a lock-up
:rolleyes:



That statement ignores 2/3 of the reasons to consider a lockup TC. To each his own but thats a tad to aggresive a statement to be throwing around.



A better converter will make a huge difference but just remember there is a reason for the sloppy converters on a stock transmission. There are other pieces that need a serious look at when you start upgrading the input power.



My . 02 and good luck.
 
I'm running the Hughes converter and I'm happy with it. There was a big difference between it and the stock converter. I'm sure the DTT is great but I just couldn't afford their prices.



No fluid coupling is going to equal a lockup converter, IMHO. And even with the DTT converters an exhaust brake isn't recommended without lockup - that is the primary reason I'll probably swap in a later transmission down the road.
 
I've got the DTT 89% converter and am happy with it. That is the only one I have had experience with as an after market converter so I can't say anything about the others. Several others are available for the first gens. Since the first gens didn't have a lock up converter(some say there was one in the later 93's but I have not seen one), it would be expensive to install one in a first gen. I checked on this before installing the DTT converter and it was going to require a newer transmission as well as the controller. The transmission needed a spacer to make room for the lockup TC. I didn't want to fool with converting it.
 
Thanks for the info so far guys. . I'll look into the Hughes stuff as well. . Does anyone know the difference between a 518 89 and a 518 91?.....

Chuck
 
The 89 means 89% and the 91 means 91% thus 91% is tighter but you need fuel inhancments to move the truck with a load if you have the 91%. I someday am going to get the 91% when some money falls my way.
 
the early transmission's have a 12 roller sprag and the later one's have a 14 roller sprag,,,, I have a Suncoast in mine and LOVE IT... Also if your looking to get some more out of your transmission I must recommend a aftermarket valve body as well.
 
The Hughes is looking good so far. Gotta find a deal on one. Anyone have experience with Mojave Green TCs?. . They are not far from my house... .
 
The DTT 89 is a tad more forgiving at the lower end of the RPM range... it will allow you to build a bit more RPM before it tightens up on you... . once it does, you'll know you're hookin up though... :D:D

The 91, in my personal opinion should be considered by those who have/are going to push their trucks into the 300+ RWHP range and above.

It is pretty tight off idle and can take a bit to get spooled up...

Most of our trucks do REAL well with the 89's..... :D

The 91's will do a bit better showing on a dyno but are kinda tight for the "around town" driving we do alot of.



pb... .
 
This has been a good thread - I learned a little! Here's a related question: I'm running a '91. 5 with the original transmission and 170k on the clock. A good transmission friend of mine tuned up the transmission when I bought the truck at 144k almost 2 years ago, and it's been OK. The tune up did a world of good, but it's still not (by any stretch of the imagination!!)



My problem is that I can't tow my 7,000# trailers in OD (without the transmission temp skyrocketing). And I hate driving at 2,500 RPM in 3rd. The motor will pull all day in OD but the transmission can't come anywhere close to handling it.



My friend corroborated (sp?) what's been posted here - that is that an 89% torque converter is probably the best fit/compromise for my truck. And here's my question: Will a quality 89% torque converter (obviously with a complete transmission rebuild as well!) allow me to tow my 7,000# trailers in OD without overheating my transmission?



As always - thanks for all your input!!
 
Well,

for what it's worth. I talked to a very friendly person at Hughes today. . He estimated the 15XFM to be around 90%. Also said it would let my truck(with the mods it has) build power before it(TC) stiffens up. . I think I'm going to go Hughes..... Good rep and willing to take the time to talk to me about the many questions i had. that's worth a lot to me... ... .
 
Hunter4x4 said:
Will a quality 89% torque converter (obviously with a complete transmission rebuild as well!) allow me to tow my 7,000# trailers in OD without overheating my transmission?



It depends on the terrain and the speed you drive. When towing the Jeep on the trailer (~6000 lbs combined) I use OD above 60 MPH and on mild grades without any problems. For the steeper stuff, or for under 60 MPH, I kick it out of OD.



Even with the camper on the truck and Jeep on the trailer (~14k lbs total, including the truck), I was able to use OD under similar conditions without any problems. If the grade is so steep that I have to give it a lot of throttle to maintain speed I slow down and drop it out of OD - these transmissions are not known for their strong overdrive units, and putting the power to it with that much weight may be asking for trouble... .



Chuck - Glad he was able to give you some good info. That was my experience with him, too. :)
 
Thanks for the reply, Dan.



You were probably reading my mind - that's what I meant for OD towing, mild grades or level over 60 MPH. I recognize when to kick her down into 3rd when towing, my biggest concern was getting it to the point where I can tow in OD on the easier stuff!



Do you have a transmission temp gage? If so, what transmission temps are you running at between 65 and 70 in OD?



Thanks!!



Mike
 
Hunter4x4 said:
Do you have a transmission temp gage? If so, what transmission temps are you running at between 65 and 70 in OD?



I seldom drive freeways, mostly secondary state roads where the speed limit is 55-65 MPH, so I seldom go 70 MPH when towing.



If I run 65 MPH with just the Jeep and trailer, I'll see 180-190*, maybe 200* on longer but fairly mild climbs (measured coming out of the torque converter, where the fluid is the hottest). The tighter converter really helped keep the temps down under most conditions - even pulling a seven mile long, 7-8% grade loaded to 14k pounds, from a standing stop at the bottom ($!!@ construction:mad: ), it only hit around 220*. Of course, that was 2nd gear most of the way because the EGTs were too high - something the 4" exhaust helped control. :)
 
Dan -



Thanks for the info - exactly the kind of data I'm looking for! It'll be a while, but I'll let you know what I do and how it turns out!!
 
Kinda TC related here. .

Since the torque the transmission(A518) experiences is higher with a tighter converter, is it a good idea to go to a aluminum pan to get a bit more strength (less flex) in the trans housing? i know the added fluid capacity would be beneficial, not to mention a drain plug would be nice. . I see the metal pans with added capacity are cheaper but I'm thinking about the added strength , if the alloy does add strength. . I can imagine anything that lessens housing flex would be a welcome benefit to the trannys internals. . Right?

Who makes a good one with a good price?... ... .

Chuck
 
Hughes TC in '91.5 W-250

In no way do I mean to flame Hughes TC, in Phoenix, AZ. I will just relay my story.

My 91. 5 W-250 was the biggest SLUG in town. I thought it was lack of power from the engine. Had the pump turned-up twice. Helped ever so slightly. K&N Airfilter and Banks exhaust gave hardly any extra power. Replaced the 21. 5 sq. cm turbo with a 16. That really helped. Had the injector pump recalibrated, off the truck, by Diesel Performance Center in Phoenix. That really helped also.

Before these mods, my max boost was 15 lbs. After, 30+lbs. (only have a 30 lb guage. ). Truck runs alot better, now.

I bought this truck primarily to tow my (at that time) 19' travel trailer. Maybe, 3500/4000 lbs. But, I live in Phoenix (1100'elev. ). I camp in the White Mtns. in eastern AZ (9200/9500' elev. ). So, there's an over 8000' climb in a little over 200 miles. Go to western Colo. on vacations. Even higher.

When going up the grades the truck would not go faster than 45/47mph. Even with the upgrades. You could "floor-it" and the rpm's would go anywhere you want them but, the truck would not go ANY faster. That's when I figured out that it wasn't lack of engine power but, the power wasn't getting to the rear wheels. (My buddies, with Chev. V-8's said it was the lack of power in that little diesel engine). I checked with Hughes TC and they said to bring the stock TC in and they would check it out. Probably the vanes were bent.

Took it to Denny's Trans. to have the TC removed and they did a stall speed test before removal. Stalled at 2200rpm.

Hughes disassembled the TC said it was OK but, rebuilt it with what was supposed to be a much lower stall speed. Reinstalled it and it was much "grabbier" than before. You had to really stand on the brake pedal to keep it stopped at a stop light.

The bad side was that it did nothing for the towing ability. Still couldn't go over 45/47mph, uphill. This was all done at 108000 miles, June '99. Cost $684.

Finally figured out that the lack of a lock-up TC was the problem and started looking for an answer. No one I found knew how to do a lock-up on a first gen. til I met Clint Cannon of ATS. Met him at my first May Madness in Parumph, NV in'02. In Aug. of that year I went up to Wheatridge, CO and had him install his Stage IV Trans. / TripleLok TC. This thing works as advertised. Solved my towing problems. Completely changed the personality of the truck.

The downside, of course, was the cost. Over $6000. Lot's of dollars! But, IT DOES WORK!

I can go up the same grades with a larger trailer ('25, 6/7000lbs) at 55/60mph fairly easily.

It seems like whenever you gain something on one end, you lose something on the other end.

My old, non-lock-up, trans. used to get really hot going up the grades (260/270deg's). The ATS hardly ever gets over 180/190deg's. But, my EGT's never really used to get very high, with the old trans. Now, they climb pretty quickly. The difference is that, now, the engine is "tied" to the rearend and all the power is getting to the ground. The engine, under power, even sounds different.

In Hughes TC's defense, they have had 5/6 years to improve the product I bought from them. Most probably, they have a lot more experience with how a TC works behind a diesel engine. I, at least, hope so.

I would recommend talking to and riding in the trucks of as many people that actually have the product you are wanting to purchase. That way, your chances of being disappointed will be lessened, greatly.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't TC's out there, now, that are a reasonable compromise as compared to the cost of a lock-up system. Maybe not a true lock-up, but a lot cheaper, and still work a lot better than the stock TC. I've heard that the DTT-89% is a good example. There may be others that are even better. Since i've never tried them, I don't know for sure.

I hope my experience helps you guy's in your decisions. Boy, this is a long reply. I must have too much time on my hands.

Joe F. (Buffalo)
 
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