tow vehicle

[Mark31]

I saw something a few days ago and can't get it out of my head! It was a Chrysler minivan pulling a 23 ft Airstream Flying Cloud. Is this Kosher? The couple had been to Florideee, and were now working their way back to Mississauga, Ontario.

 

[JR]

Maybe they had a 180 horse 12 valve conversion under the hood :-laf

Curious how you know it was a 23 Footer, specifically? At any rate, Florida to Ontario in ANYTHING that resembles a minivan pulling a 20+footer is either ballsy, ignorant, or VERY confident in your equipment!

 

[Mark31]

Maybe they had a 180 horse 12 valve conversion under the hood :-laf

Curious how you know it was a 23 Footer, specifically? At any rate, Florida to Ontario in ANYTHING that resembles a minivan pulling a 20+footer is either ballsy, ignorant, or VERY confident in your equipment!

JR, I talked to the husband/wife for just a few minutes. They had had a smaller one, but moved up to this 23 footer. With his French Canadian accent, he told me it was a Flying Cloud in French, then caught himself and told me in English! He said the minivan did good, just needed more power on larger hills, noting that I could pull 2 with my sig truck. I wondered about the frame (or lack of it) and how the front-wheel drive would work/hold up. The hitch appeared (just a very quick glance) to be a just a standard hitch with a Husky sway control. I had never seen anything like this and it kinda just "blew me outa de water"! Mark

 

[jgillott]

If you venture over to airforums.com, you will find an entire group of people that are in to pulling airstreams with these small tow vehicles. It's quite frightening to look at some of the combinations they are running. Apparently there is some RV dealer in Canada that will modify the vehicle hitch, sell the new Airstream owner a high end WD hitch like a Hensley, and tell them they are good to go. But whatever you do, don't question any of their logic. They follow this RV dealer like he wrote the Physics text book.

 

[NIsaacs]

It's amazing/scary what you can see in the towing/hauling department. A few days ago while fueling up, a guy pulls up with a beat up 2nd gen towing a 12' dump trailer, hauling a medium sized skid steer. The trailer hitch was just sitting on his truck hitch, a pintle hitch

The minivans are actually kinda heavy duty. I think they would tow as good as the smaller early model Dakota.

Nick

 

[jgillott]

Many people successfully pull the small, lighter Airstream units with minivans or similar. Heck, some of the sub 20' trailers are in the 3500# range. The ones that scare me are the guys that have 31' units hooked up to a Ford Flex.

 

[JR]

Do minivans even have a full frame? What does the hitch attach to?
I can proudly say I have never crawled underneath one much less owned one. Told the wife looong ago that it would be SUV or nothing for a family vehicle. The interior layout of a minivan is admittedly nice but I just can't get by the looks of the exterior.

:-laf

 

[jgillott]

No, I think that they are all uni-body. The old Chevy Astro and Ford Aerostar were the last to be on frames I believe.

 

[MARK JAQUITH]

Just about anything will pull rv's--IT AINT THE PULLING---IT'S THE STOPPING!!

 

[NIsaacs]

Tow vehicles are not required to stop the combination. They each have their own brake system or should

Nick

 

[crispyboy]

I often follow the threads on airforums related to towing with alternate vehicles. Apparently this is being done everyday and for many, many years.
From following the threads I have garnered that uni-body frames are very strong/rigid. CanAm RV will start with an off the shelf hitch and modify for the weight or they will custom make one for enough attachment points on the frame. Uni-body frames have been used for towing successfully all the way back to the Chryslers in the 1960's. You don't have to have an old-school frame. My grandparents towed a 24' travel trailer all over the west with their 1968 Dodge Polara station wagon (uni-body) which had a factory 2" receiver hitch.
Brakes - You have to admit that braking systems are much, much better than in the past. CanAm seems to outfit vehicles with better brakes such higher end SUV's, mini-vans and sedans such as a Chrysler 300 with large rotors.
If you ever pay attention to mini-vans they can have more payload capacity than a half-ton pickup or Suburban.
They also outfit transmission coolers and sometimes a tire change to better handle the weight.
I have personally witnessed a Ford Edge pulling a 34' tri-axle Airstream. My jaw hit the ground. The people were very happy and have learned to not be in a hurry going up hills and go no more than 65 mph.

I'm not saying I have drank the Kool-aid but the whole concept seems interesting to me but at this point in life camping with the family takes a pickup truck to haul all the crap....... (plus I just like driving a pickup) I have to admit that I am watching the "Guido" 1500 diesel trucks very closely and how they perform. It is hard to deny the fuel mileage achieved when not towing. My travel trailer is 31' long and have no desire for anything bigger or going to a 5th wheel.

I think the biggest part of the debate for many is that the manufacturer has not rated the vehicles to tow heavy weights. Could this be a function of the marketing department to sell more profitable vehicles? The manufacturer also has no control over someone setting the hitch up correctly so they are scared of our litigious society and they recommend overkill with a pickup truck. Just questions to ponder.......

 

[T Mike]

The T &C with towing package comes with auto. leveling, heavy duty oil and tran. cooler, larger radiator, larger alt. 7 pin wiring harness and 2" trailer receiver.

 

[Kirwin]

I can't let this one go. My 97 Ram 2500 CTD was rated to tow 16,000 lbs GCWR. The truck weighed nearly 7500 lbs. A minivan can't have a GCWR high enough to tow a 3500 lb camper legally. I'd guess a 23 foot camper weighs around 4000 lbs. If the tongue weight is 400 lbs, the mini van is over loaded, and in my book, the driver is performing an unsafe act by endangering the rest of us on the road. You can't increase the GAWR or the GVWR or the GCWR by installing higher load rated tires. My 2003 DRW truck was rated at 21,000 lbs GCWR. I overloaded it according to Dodge because my trailer and truck weighed nearly 22K lbs combined. But I was less than 5% over my GCWR and I was under on the factory ratings for all axles and tires. I was pulling with a 3.73 rear end ratio truck. I still have a hard time understanding how a different ratio adds weight hauling capacity to the truck, but I do understand how Dodge is acting to limit corporate liability and thus is imposing limits. I sure hope the guy towing in that mini van doesn't have a deer jump out in front of him or the camper will flatten the mini van. Just my $0.02. Ken Irwin

 

[NIsaacs]

I can't let this one go. A minivan can't have a GCWR high enough to tow a 3500 lb camper legally. I'd guess a 23 foot camper weighs around 4000 lbs. If the tongue weight is 400 lbs, the mini van is over loaded, Just my $0.02. Ken Irwin

Just for kicks: 2014 Chrysler Town & Country has a GVW of 6050. curb weight of 4652 and tow rating of 3600.

Nick

 

[Mark31]

Airstream's site says the FC 23D has 720 tongue weight and 4761 empty. The 23FB has 467 and 4806 weights. Both are empty except for Lp.

 

[Kirwin]

Just for kicks: 2014 Chrysler Town & Country has a GVW of 6050. curb weight of 4652 and tow rating of 3600.

Nick

Which means: it can haul, lets see, 6050-4652=1,398 lb trailer. That's if you have nothing in the van and it actually weighs 4652 empty!!! Like I said its over loaded! Way overloaded!!!

 

[NIsaacs]

No, you are getting payload and tow weight confused. Payload is what the rig can haul, tow weight is what it can pull.

Nick

 

[Kirwin]

No, you are getting payload and tow weight confused. Payload is what the rig can haul, tow weight is what it can pull.

Nick

Your right Nick, I tried to delete the post but I can't. It doesn't matter, its way overloaded. What the GCWR for a 14 Town and Country?

 

[NIsaacs]

What the GCWR for a 14 Town and Country?

It should be gvw plus tow rating, so in this case 6050 plus 3600 for a GCW of 9650.

Nick

 

[Kirwin]

Chrysler's site say 8,750 lbs GCWR, so I guess if the van weighs 4650 you can pull a 4100 lb trailer if the van is empty. Of course you would be violating the other part of the owners manual trailer towing requirements that says "max trailer weight is 3600 lbs with up to 2 people and luggage". It also states that the max frontal area is 40 ft squared. Most travel trailers have a lot more frontage area that that! Like I said unsafe at any speed with a travel trailer behind it. Ken Irwin