Towing a 21K Fifth Wheel?

[MoparBob]

Greetings all! I am seeking the advice/opinions of all the experienced RV'ers here and am curious as to what truck you either use or would use to haul a 3 axle fifth wheel toy hauler that fully loaded may approach 21,000lbs (empty weight is 17,140). Let me first say that I am not considering towing it with my 2500, but am reluctant to buy a trailer that will force me into a medium duty truck. I am planning on purchasing a new truck in order to tow a sizable toy hauler but do not really want to go over a 3500 DRW due to expense and the need to use it as a daily driver. Your experience and opinions are welcome and I look forward to reading them!

 

[HBarlow]

As a commercial hauler for almost three years I towed a lot of trailers in that size and weight range. I pulled them because they were paying loads . . . work. I would not buy one that large or pull it with my 3500 C&C. I consider them too large and too heavy for the truck and a burden to fool with.

RVing is supposed to be fun, right? Struggling around with a grossly overloaded 3500 is simply not my idea of fun. My own fifth wheel travel trailer has a GVWR of 14,100# and is the upper limit of what I am willing to tow with it. I did a lot of studying before I ordered the fifth wheel I own. I was starting with a clean slate and could have easily ordered a longer, heavier one. I simply didn't want one any larger or heavier. I was ordering from a dealer who would deeply discount it and the price difference for any model in the HitchHiker line would have been affordable.

To tow the fifth wheel toy hauler you are contemplating I strongly believe you need a MDT IH or FL. Dodge engineers agree with me. You could get by with a Ram 4500/5500 cab and chassis but Dodge rates those trucks at 26,000# GCWR last time I looked so they would be overloaded also.

 

[Skydiver]

Medium duty crew cabs are nice. Especially when customized. Allisons are nice too. Please don't play around with that much weight. You want to be in controll when and if someone pulls out in front of you. On a straight road even with hills you will do fine with the proper transmission and brake system(s).
Have you thought about a diesel pusher MH? I want a used one real bad.
If I do buy another 5th wheel it will be around 32 feet with one super slide.

 

[GAmes]

Besides the weight you also need to account for drag. I towed one of those 40+ footers like you are looking at from southern CA to northern SK. Even empty and towing at 60mph the best mileage I got was about 9 after crossing the BC/AB Rockies while pulling over the reletively flat lands of AB and SK. Mountain driving mileage was in the 7 range and a lot of time was in 4th gear. It was a good paycheck until I got the bill for the fuel:-laf



Bottom line is toyhaulers are as aerodyamic as a parachute, so trailer weight isn't the only thing that makes a 3500 not enough truck for that trailer.

 

[HBarlow]

Welcome to 2L CUSTOM TRUCKS - Poolville, Texas, USA

Talk to Wayland Long. I don't know him, have never met him or visited his facility, but read his posts in the MDT and HDT forums of the Escapees website. He has converted MDTs for a living for many years and knows trucks. He deals in brand new custom built MDTs but also has some nice used ones on his site and apparently takes pickups in trade.

If I was a fulltime or even "most time" RVer I would be driving one of 2L's IH conversion trucks.

 

[Grizzly]

Just get the size 5th wheel toy hauler that you can comfortably tow with a 3500 DRW. Problem solved.



george

 

[AH64ID]

Just based on the GCW alone you will need to have a CDL, and will be classified as a "truck" in most states (weight stations, speed limits, etc)...

Just something to consider. . the trailer may be fun when parked, but wouldn't be all the fun to tow in anything under a 2-Ton.

 

[fest3er]

Greetings all! I am seeking the advice/opinions of all the experienced RV'ers here and am curious as to what truck you either use or would use to haul a 3 axle fifth wheel toy hauler that fully loaded may approach 21,000lbs (empty weight is 17,140). Let me first say that I am not considering towing it with my 2500, but am reluctant to buy a trailer that will force me into a medium duty truck. I am planning on purchasing a new truck in order to tow a sizable toy hauler but do not really want to go over a 3500 DRW due to expense and the need to use it as a daily driver. Your experience and opinions are welcome and I look forward to reading them!

Do I have the math correct here? 21,000-17140? The max payload of the trailer would be about 2800#. 100 gal. of water drops that to 2000#. Provisions and entertainment drops that to 1000#. So, if I have this straight, you want to lug 20,000# of comfort all over to bring about 1000# of outdoor toys with you?



Of course, if the empty weight is 7140#, kindly disregard my astonishment.

 

[HBarlow]

Just based on the GCW alone you will need to have a CDL, and will be classified as a "truck" in most states (weight stations, speed limits, etc)...

Just something to consider. . the trailer may be fun when parked, but wouldn't be all the fun to tow in anything under a 2-Ton.

No, sorry. That's not accurate.

He may need a Class A Operator's License. Some states now offer and require the upgraded operator license. Texas does.

But as long as he is pulling that trailer he owns with a truck he owns for private, recreational (non-business) activities a CDL is not and would not be required.

No requirement to cross the scales either.

The gross combined weight would put him into CDL territory if he was engaged in hauling for hire or using such a trailer as part of a commercial business activity but private use RVs are exempt from FMCA rules.

 

[AH64ID]

I have been told that RV's are and aren't exempt from weight limits from the local DMV... So I spent some time looking today and found where they officially are exempt...

Still don't know what to do about registration, the most I can go here is 26K. . still reading on what it takes to go above. .

Thanks for the correction, and the motivation to finally find it in writing.

 

[HBarlow]

I have been told that RV's are and aren't exempt from weight limits from the local DMV... So I spent some time looking today and found where they officially are exempt...

Still don't know what to do about registration, the most I can go here is 26K. . still reading on what it takes to go above. .

Thanks for the correction, and the motivation to finally find it in writing.

The Idaho Driver's Handbook or something equivalent that spells out the requirements for obtaining a driver's license should lay it out for you in detail. The TX handbook does.

I don't know if your state offers and requires a Class A operator license but states are increasingly enacting laws that require them for folks driving huge motorhomes or pulling huge fifth wheels. The requirements and testing are usually identical or similar to the CDL except you have to be tested driving an appropriate tow vehicle and towing a trailer. The GVWR stickers of truck and trailer will have to total more than 26,000 lbs. to qualify.

I borrowed a gooseneck flatbed with tandem axles and dual wheels with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. to take my CDL license exam.

 

[AH64ID]

The only Class A Idaho offers at this time is a CDL, and RV's are exempt. So I guess a Class D is plenty.

The handbook is useless, it doesn't even cover the different weights for personal vehicles... If you read the book, all I have to do is register my truck, according to regulation I have to choose <8K, 8K-16K, or 16K-26K. . yet the clerks don't ask, they just register you for <8K. . you have to learn by hear say... Needless to say I have spent a few hours trying to find it... Which is why I can't find anything on over 26K, its probably not written in the common places. . but being an RV he may be exempt from weight as well. . I guess it depends on the state.

 

[HBarlow]

Registered weight is a separate issue and basically an issue of taxation. I would urge anyone to check their registration and make sure they paid enough tax to be registered for the GVWR of their truck and trailer.

Member Cumminz learned a painful lesson about that in his home state of NC a year or so ago. He posted about it here and a long discussion followed.

TX tax clerks are county employees in Texas and few of them really understand. Ditto dealership title clerks. In many cases in TX if you buy a so-called "one ton" truck which is an old and meaningless term the dealer's title clerk fills out the registration and title request form with the shipping weight of the truck (which is seldom accurate) and adds 2,000 lbs. The unsuspecting new owner doesn't realize until he gets a ticket that he has only registered his new dually with a GVWR of 12,500 for 10,000 lbs. I had to argue and insist we were going to do it my way when I bought the last two Dodges I've owned. The dealer's title clerk thought I was nuts. She had never heard of registering for 12,500 lbs.

 

[MoparBob]

Thanks for the input! You all have confirmed my doubts. Now all I need to do is find a trailer that will meet my needs and is still towable with a 3500 DRW.

 

[HBarlow]

You're a smart man. You asked for and considered the advice of others before you jumped into the fire.

Many go out and buy a new Ram 2500 or SRW 3500 then decide they can pull any trailer offered by their local dealer.

 

[AH64ID]

Many go out and buy a new Ram 2500 or SRW 3500 then decide they can pull any trailer offered by their local dealer.

Its amazing what a salesman says your truck can pull. .



Tow ratings aren't blanket ratings, period... My favorite example is I had a Toyota Tacoma with the tow package, rated to tow 6500lbs. My 18'TT weighs in at 5300lbs loaded. . so I could tow that with the Tacoma right? According to a salesman, yes. . According to the laws of physics it would be dangerous and VERY hard on the drivetrain of the Toyota. Hell at 75 towing a 1500lb pop-up (shorter and narrower than the bed of the taco) the transmission was on the verge of overheat temps!



The next best example is slide-in campers...

 

[MoparBob]

With what has been said in mind, if the new truck I buy is rated for towing 17,000 pounds, what is your opinion on towing that much?

 

[GAmes]

I see no problem with that. Mine is rated to tow 13,000 and I have been doing that for years. (sometimes a wee bit more):-laf

 

[AH64ID]

With what has been said in mind, if the new truck I buy is rated for towing 17,000 pounds, what is your opinion on towing that much?

If its a truck then you are fine with the ratings.

 

[MAshley]

The issues is not about going... . It’s about STOPPING. We have plenty of gearing, plenty of Power, and Plenty of Torque. But we only have 4 truck brakes, and whatever might be on the trailer, and seeing what trailer manufactures are installing for tires, axles, ETC … I can only assume they install the cheapest of braking systems as well… And from electric trailer brake Experience … They suck…



So a 21,000 lbs 5ver + 9-10K lbs truck . . you’re at 31,000 Lbs of stuff to stop.



IF I was hauling RV’s for a living Sure I would hook up my Dully 3500 and haul it, for the following reasons



I would be empty trailer wise

Mostly Highway driving

I have an exhaust brake and manual trans

The electric brakes would be new and hopefully set correctly

I have a CDL-a and understand the extra weight, It wouldn’t be a perfect scenario but it would be short term and its gone and hopefully a few $$ in my pocket



I think it would be wise to down size a smidge and or keep the 2500 and then have a dedicated class 5 truck for a large 5ver like that.