Towing a Single Axle Trailer

[RUSSELL5000]

I have to confess that I do not understand the need for speed on the highway – somewhere around 70 mph seems fine to me. I can cruise along, no worries about tickets, etc.

I tow the boy scout trailer a lot. The guys like to go faster (80 mph or a little over) – seems odd to me when you have the children of someone else in your car. But, they do.

The boy scout trailer is a little single axle guy weighing around 4,000 lbs (have not been to the scale, so guessing here). It has surge brakes. It came with 15 inch load range C tires; I upgraded the tires and rims to load range E. The boys tend to load the trailer by just cramming stuff in – nobody other than myself has ever directed them to put heavier items to the front and to try and keep the weight even from side to side.

I don’t think it is a good idea to pull most trailers fast because their brake systems are inherently weak designs, and in the case of the boy scout trailer, the weakest system possible with surge brakes. The tires run cool now with load range E. We will most likely never have good weight distribution in the trailer. Finally, if I recall correctly, ST rated tires (trailer tires) are rated for 65 mph. I don’t think it is a good idea to pull this kind of a trailer over 65 mph.

Do you guys think I am off base with any of this reasoning?

Thanks!

 

[RustyJC]

I know it's a relatively small trailer, but do you run any kind of sway control on your hitch assembly?

Rusty

 

[Mingoglia]

Pulling a single axle trailer fast is not the best idea, as losing a tire can cause a bad situation. Most double axle trailers, assuming you have a suitable tow rig are pretty stable when losing a tire. As for the inherent design of brakes, in an emergency, getting "on the brakes" is in most situations not the best idea, unless it's slamming on the brakes straight line, which you can compensate for by increasing following distance. Obviously the slower you go the less problems you typically have, but you have to draw a balance. Out west, where some states have speed limits of 85, and in some cases roads that stretch miles without even a single curve in them, I couldn't imagine only going 70 on large sections of road, particularly with no one else on the roadway with me. This is why though I run much higher tire capacity than needed. For example, just yesterday I put new tires on my Jeep hauler. This trailer comes with load range c, but I put on load range e. Gives me a bit extra capacity, which translates into being able to take higher speeds at lower load levels. Granted I don't go 85, but I usually cruise in the 75-80 range on the open road.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Rusty, there is no weight distribution or sway control. Just a simple ball hitch. We were coming back on Sunday and it was somewhat windy - I could feel the sideways pressure from the trailer in the truck when a gust of wind came up.

Mingoglia, I am right with you on tire capacity. I replaced the load range C with a load range E and, based on my completely unscientific method of hand placement on the tire, the tires always run cool. Rims are upgraded as well. So, I think I have that one covered. I can see your point regarding a faster pace on a straight, open road with little traffic. Where I am at in in Pennsylvania, the roads have traffic, are twisty and hilly, and have an abundance of large potholes at this time of year. I had not even considered how handling a blowout with a single axle trailer would be.

I imagine some of you guys know, but it seems to me that is has been thirty years or more since cars and trucks came with drum brakes; I assume because disc brakes are clearly more effective. Yet the drum brake seems to be the rule on smaller trailers, whether they are surge brakes or electric brakes.

It just seems like bare minimum engineering to me and that a person is wise not to push the boundaries of. Does that make sense?

 

[Mingoglia]

Rusty, there is no weight distribution or sway control. Just a simple ball hitch. We were coming back on Sunday and it was somewhat windy - I could feel the sideways pressure from the trailer in the truck when a gust of wind came up.

Mingoglia, I am right with you on tire capacity. I replaced the load range C with a load range E and, based on my completely unscientific method of hand placement on the tire, the tires always run cool. Rims are upgraded as well. So, I think I have that one covered. I can see your point regarding a faster pace on a straight, open road with little traffic. Where I am at in in Pennsylvania, the roads have traffic, are twisty and hilly, and have an abundance of large potholes at this time of year. I had not even considered how handling a blowout with a single axle trailer would be.

I imagine some of you guys know, but it seems to me that is has been thirty years or more since cars and trucks came with drum brakes; I assume because disc brakes are clearly more effective. Yet the drum brake seems to be the rule on smaller trailers, whether they are surge brakes or electric brakes.

With that being said, some drums brakes on trailers are quite effective. On my toy hauler, I have brakes on all 4 wheels and those things will lock up so quick it'll give you whiplash. On my two car hauler trailers, one as pretty darn good brakes, though not as good as my toy hauler, and the other has crappy brakes. A lot of inconsistency with trailer brakes, which is to your point now that I think about it.

It just seems like bare minimum engineering to me and that a person is wise not to push the boundaries of. Does that make sense?

Yup, makes sense. If I were to speculate as to why these have drums, I'd say the electric actuators are probably better suited for activating a drum brake, as opposed to a caliper. I know there are some trailers with disks, but I believe these are primarily surge brakes (such as boats), which technically being hydraulic is equally suited for disk calipers as they are drums.

On edit, another point is most trailers that do have brakes are undersized. I'm pretty sure my car hauler likely has 3,500lb brakes, on a trailer which is rated for double that.... which is common unfortunately.

 

[RustyJC]

Large 5th wheel RVs such as our Mobile Suites have electric-over-hydraulic disc brakes. They take the signal from the truck's brake controller and use it to determine the output pressure of a hydraulic pump which activates the calipers - in other words, the hydraulic pressure will increase as the braking voltage from the controller increases. They're quite commonplace today, and a number of companies offer retrofit kits to replace the old electric drums. The hydraulic surge brakes are popular on small trailers because the telescoping action of the trailer tongue can directly actuate a hydraulic master cylinder - very simple and (somewhat) effective.

I've seen enough "whippy" tail-wagging small bumper-tow trailers on the Interstate to curb any desire I might have for 80+ MPH towing. Too much can happen all too quickly for my tastes.

Rusty

 

[GCroyle]

Russell,

I'll pass on topic based comments and just say thanks for a trip down memory lane.

Our BSA Troup 186, Greater Cleveland Council had a Scout Trailer. Detailed with a fitted Conestoga Wagon canvas top over a bow frame, steel pennants with our identity and IIRC a solid axle. Pretty sure it tore up my Dad's trunk floor mounted hitch from bouncing so much.

One Friday evening as we were headed to camp, our Scoutmaster's old mid '50's Chevy stopped pulling so good. He pulled in to a Service Station DING DING and we waited a short bit for a new fuel pump to be installed and off we went.

That trailer made a lot of memories for our Troup, had too cause it replaced an early 60's Econoline Van.

Be Prepared. So I guess today that means GPS, Mobile Phone, TPMS, AAA, Apps, Platinum C-Card, permits and permission slips all signed.

Gary

 

[SnoKing]

The tires on that trailer most likely carry the standard ST tire 65 MPH speed restriction. Loose a tire that the trailer and tow vehicle are going to be a handful. Your brain is trained to speed up to regain control, then slow down, right? Big risk in my book to tow over that speed with the trailer and Scouts in your vehicle! SNOKING

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Rusty & Mingoglia: pretty well confirms my concerns. SNOKING: I agree.

I should add at this point that I do NOT go fast. The guys are always giving me the business about it. I guess I started to wonder, but this conversation confirms my thoughts. I think right now I am at the point where my position is that I am going to drive in the manner I feel is safe and economical and if that is a problem then they are free to back up, hook up, and tow away.

Gary, I sure hope the boys have fun. There are lots and lots of forms now, and everything we do has to be done with another leader - so I can't go on a hike unless another leader will go as well. I do think our trailer is a better deal than what you had. Overall, a good deal.

 

[EGroeneveld]

I just came back from riding quads in Moab, UT for the prior week. Between home and there is a bunch of 80 zone in ID and UT. Pulling a 10.4K rated trailer loaded to maybe 7K with a dually, I average 75MPH between all the zones, never above 80.

I've had flats before on this trailer and it handles just fine....

In the areas of ID and UT with the 80 zone the roads are better than the 65 zoned areas in Oregon. I'm totally comfortable towing at 80.

When I add my truck camper to the mix I won't go much more than 72 (2,000 RPM)

And a single axle trailer like that I would take a run over a scale, just to see how badly weighted it is....

 

[Mingoglia]

I consider myself an expert in blown tires at speed, FWIW. I lived through the early 2,000's with Carlisle tires, the dark years where there were lawsuits and Discount Tire stopped carrying them (only to start carrying years later). One year I lost 15 tires to blow-outs. LOL

 

[surfbeetle]

In addition to my fifth wheels and travel trailers, I have towed many boats. Their trailers were usually single axle and had surge brakes. There's nothing wrong with surge brakes provide they are in good working order. The main disadvantage is that if you were to jack knife, you have no way with surge brakes to actuate the trailer tires in an effort to straighten out. Now as for speed, tires usually fail from heat. Heat is caused from too much weight or too much speed. This is one of the mail reasons it is recommended every so often to stop and do a physical inspection of your vehicle and also check the tire temps. Before the laser thermometers, you would just hold your palm out towards the tire and feel for radiating heat, hopefully there was none. It's also recommended to check the wheel hubs for heat as well.
If you don't feel comfortable driving at a certain speed, then don't do it. Conversely, try not to be a hazard in traffic by going to slow, keep to the right.

 

[GCroyle]

Russell,

My Scout days were late 60's to early 70's. A black and white TV and 1 rotary phone/home kinda days. We carried pocket knives, sheath knives, used hand axes, pulled up some sod made a fire, put it out covered it up back up with the sod Scouting days.

The trailer was crafted by pride and towed with pride and made many trips.

I can only imagine how Scouting had changed and adapted to current society situations.

Thanks for carrying on the Scouting.

Gary

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Gary,

I don't think things are all that different - your scout days and mine are about the same. The boys have pocket knives, can use an axe, etc. We will spend the day hiking in the woods; we have a big fire at night after cooking our own meals.

There must be a permission slip for everything and there must always be two leaders, We have to force the boys to leave their electronic devices at home, and about the only compliant I hear when camping is that there is no internet.

The one thing that is I notice is quite different, and you mentioned, is that the emphasis today is "leave no trace." No more pulling up sod, ditching around tents, cutting and lashing poles, etc. Only dead and down wood may be gathered or cut; no new fire rings, ....

I think that if you could just appear in camp, most of it would seem pretty familiar.

The best part to me is when I get to observe a boy grow. We were on a hike last weekend; were going up a rather steep grade for a while. Two boys kept whining. "this is so steep; I can't make it, ...." I said - just keep putting one foot in front of the other - you'll get there. We got to the top of the ridge and it was great view. We took a break, had a drink of water, a good look at the view. I heard one boy tell the other - "That wasn't so hard - I'm glad we came up here." Hopefully that will be the first of many hikes.

 

[Tuesdak]

The tires on that trailer most likely carry the standard ST tire 65 MPH speed restriction. Loose a tire that the trailer and tow vehicle are going to be a handful. Your brain is trained to speed up to regain control, then slow down, right? Big risk in my book to tow over that speed with the trailer and Scouts in your vehicle! SNOKING

Exactly this. Trailer tire load rating is not equal to it's speed rating. Check the speed rating on the trailer tire. See if you can get higher speed rated tires at least up to the highest speed limit in the states it travels in.

Drum brakes don't get as wet from rain mist as the disc brakes do so they dry and start working faster. This said Uhaul has 4 wheel disc surge brakes on some of their newer cargo trailers.

Make the boys unload and reload the trailer if it's light in the tongue. The second you get off the power a trailer that is heavy in the back lifting the tongue will start to sway badly. It was the longest 30 seconds of my life with the trailer brakes full on going from 65 to 30 mph with a double axle trailer with gravel in it that was accidentally loaded light in the front by the front end loader.

See if you can make a tax donation to the troop of a double axle trailer with the requirement that the single axle trailer is scrapped. Otherwise you are doing the right thing by taking it easy because the single axle trailer are not that stable to start with. High speed and a gust of wind get wild enough with double axles.

 

[GCroyle]

Gary,

I don't think things are all that different - your scout days and mine are about the same. The boys have pocket knives, can use an axe, etc. We will spend the day hiking in the woods; we have a big fire at night after cooking our own meals.

I think that if you could just appear in camp, most of it would seem pretty familiar.

Russell,

That sounds darn good. We had paperwork too, permits and permission slips. The tale about the hike, somewhere I have a pic of an ear to ear grin of a young Scout admiring his 1 match fire. He didn't feel the cold after that.

I bet my canvas Voyager tent might get a what's that Mr. Scoutmaster?

Somewhere I have "Greenbar Bill" Hillcourt's autograph.

Gary

 

[Mingoglia]

Exactly this. Trailer tire load rating is not equal to it's speed rating. Check the speed rating on the trailer tire. See if you can get higher speed rated tires at least up to the highest speed limit in the states it travels in.

Yup, not directly related, but it's a distant cousin. Heat is the biggest contributor to blow outs. A higher load range tire operated at lower weights, will flex less per revolution and generate less heat....generally speaking.