Towing Power!

[cummins_crewcab]

Ok, been searching for about 3 weeks now. I've been trying to find out whats been working best for people that are towing but every thread I find with people doing more than an ez box they are only towing 6000 pounds or less...



Anyway, I tow 14k pounds about once a month (gooseneck with off road truck on it). This includes various mountain passes. EGT's are my main issue that I am worried about at the moment.



I want to know what the BEST setup would be for my CA SO 03 truck. I'm stuck at 42mph going up the grape vine when towing and thats not going to cut it. Currently I'm thinking piers towing twins with TST and EZ stacked. Maybe flux injectors?



Basically I would like 450-500hp to play with but I would like to have enough to tow at 55-65mph up any hills without egt's going over roughly 1300*. I would like to keep a good spool thus the reason I would like twins not to mention the EGT reduction they give. I don't need to run 450-500hp all the time and when towing, just enough to get me up the hills faster than the slowest semi but I want to be able to turn up the power for those unloaded days when I want to have some fun. I assume the twins will be the best way to go but what about everything else?



Truck has 4" exhaust from turbo back (replaced cast elbow), AFE intake, FASS waiting to go on, and I'll be buying a clutch the same time I buy the power products. Any help?

 

[GWBourne]

mine is stock and a 6 speed and i have no problem with more weight that that. i pull 19k on a 32 foot GN. if i was a lil deeper in the pockets i would not do any boxes, but twins and larger injectors/exhaust. i have been doing a bit of research as well and it seems the people who are pulling larger loads are going to twins and it is working well.

i prefer as much mechanical stuff as possible vice elec. /computer makes life a BIT more simple.



oh, and is your shop ready yet... i STILL need a cage...

grant



**edit, i saw your post about grape vine... . mine stock does this faster than say... 90% of the big boys and girls going up the hill... the other 10% are empty i think... . ***

 

[daytripper63]

I tow 10-11k+ with Ca S. O. and all items in my sig. I can and have pulled the Grapevine with no problems TST is great once I am cruising I turn down TQ setting and turn up HP setting and EGTs are fine on any hill.

I have been pulled over twice now doing 85 up Blue Canyon grade in NorCal on Hwy 80 in left lane cause the cars were slowing me down

Will soon be adding Super B or HTT turbo

 

[cummins_crewcab]

mine is stock and a 6 speed and i have no problem with more weight that that. i pull 19k on a 32 foot GN. if i was a lil deeper in the pockets i would not do any boxes, but twins and larger injectors/exhaust. i have been doing a bit of research as well and it seems the people who are pulling larger loads are going to twins and it is working well.

i prefer as much mechanical stuff as possible vice elec. /computer makes life a BIT more simple.



oh, and is your shop ready yet... i STILL need a cage...

grant



**edit, i saw your post about grape vine... . mine stock does this faster than say... 90% of the big boys and girls going up the hill... the other 10% are empty i think... . ***

Yeah and you have a ton more torque/hp than I do.



Shop is still looking like November or so, but you can drop the thing off at my house after July if you want and I'll git-r-done.

I tow 10-11k+ with Ca S. O. and all items in my sig. I can and have pulled the Grapevine with no problems TST is great once I am cruising I turn down TQ setting and turn up HP setting and EGTs are fine on any hill.

I have been pulled over twice now doing 85 up Blue Canyon grade in NorCal on Hwy 80 in left lane cause the cars were slowing me down

Will soon be adding Super B or HTT turbo

So should I just say screw it and buy the TST first and see what happens? I'd hate to frag a turbo. Guess I can buy the TST and then move into twins as I need an updgraded turbo. Every review I read say bad stuff about towing heavy with a large single... Thers a whole lot of conflicting advice out there that has my head spinning. I like your advice though because you essentially have the same truck as I do and tow around the same areas I do.

 

[TCDiesel]

When it comes to towing twins are not the answer,Twins are capable of producing incredible boost which at times cannot be support by fuel and milage will suffer greatly,Also twins should be supported By two cooling systems one after the first turbo and one prior to the Plenum,VGT is the fix for towing ,but it needs to be support by electronics,This technology is available just not for the ISBe yet,some companys are getting close I would expect it to be available 6 to 9 months.

 

[Tim]

I would just get the Edge for now. If you're planning on stacking it with the TST later you can do so once you upgrade turbos.



The TST is very adjustable but I think you will ultimately find that you'll want to run it at the higher settings and you may risk fragging the turbo.



Tommygun was telling me that the single turbo program waits for 12 PSI of boost before it adds fuel though, where the Edge fuels from 2 psi on up.



It's up to you, I doubt you'll be disappointed with any of them. I'm really shocked you have hills that can bring a Cummins to its knees like that though, I took mine through the mountains out here on the other coast. On the way up, I only downshifted on one mountain, and then only to 5th gear at the very top. On the way back I never downshifted once, I stayed in 6th gear from North Carolina all the way back to Illinois.



I know the rockies are steeper but I had so much extra power on tap that I just can't fathom downshifting to 4th and not being able to accelerate.



I was towing 9,000 lb trailer and my truck weighs 7,025 + I'm 140 lbs so that's a little over 16,000 combined weight... still not as heavy as you I suppose, and I have a little more power.

 

[driverno8]

I have an CA SO motor too. I tow a 9,000lbs RV quit a bit and have towed upto 14,000lbs a few times. I can do the Cajon Pass at 75mph with that much on the back. Hardly ever 1300?. I put tow haul mode on, RPM's about 2300 and she's a humming. I'd rather see RPM then temps. I'm with you on hanging out in the left lane. The look on peoples faces when you pass them on the left at that speed and with that size load is amazing. See sig below. HTB2, TST/EZ stack. EZ stays on 1 and the TST is 4/3 when towing. With those settings I really don't even have to watch the temp guage because I know I'm fine.

 

[cummins_crewcab]

I have an CA SO motor too. I tow a 9,000lbs RV quit a bit and have towed upto 14,000lbs a few times. I can do the Cajon Pass at 75mph with that much on the back. Hardly ever 1300?. I put tow haul mode on, RPM's about 2300 and she's a humming. I'd rather see RPM then temps. I'm with you on hanging out in the left lane. The look on peoples faces when you pass them on the left at that speed and with that size load is amazing. See sig below. HTB2, TST/EZ stack. EZ stays on 1 and the TST is 4/3 when towing. With those settings I really don't even have to watch the temp guage because I know I'm fine.

So how is the spooling with the htb2? I have a 5 speed so I worry about loosing all my boost while shifting... If the big single is slow to spool I would kinda worry about that but maybe not? I've never had anything but stock in the turbo dept. so I have no idea what I have coming.



Anyway, up the grapevine loaded with the my truck on the back I am going 42mph in 3rd at 3k with 4. 10's. It cruises right up redlined in 3rd but if I bump up to 4th I just don't have the power to stay at a steady mph, it just drops ever so slowly and I have to get back into 3rd. It's pretty bad when guys I'm convoying with are leaving me in there dust when there pulling with gassers , then again they are only pulling 7k pounds or so.



Anyway, I've got a good chunk of change stashed in the truck budget so I'm open to ideas. I'd really like to take care of as much as possible in one shot so if you guys think I should go with a big single such as the htb2 and a tst stacked with an ez then thats what I will do. But I'd hate to buy the big single only to find I want twins and have to spend all that money again...

 

[Fred Swanson]

A good single and the EZ or TST/EZ stack will do the job. The Edge Juice is in BETA right now, and working very well, so they may be out in the next few weeks. Another possible option.

 

[BRayls]

buy the tst. keep the trq settings as low as you can. if you are going to change the turbo for towing I would go single. however I hear the bd twins are working good. you can buy one and upgrade if you need . anyone here have them? I bet you find you don't need the ez, but just want it. :-laf I for one just have it under the back seat for when I want it . I don't like what it has done to some injectors I have here in the shop. I would not run one over 3, but hindsight is 20/20. just my opinion worth what you paid for it .

 

[Mingoglia]

The thing with the left coast is the hills are very long. I've pulled some steeper hills back east but they aren't quite as long. Some places outside Arizona have several mile 7% grades... several miles of that will eventually slow you down.

 

[boonsur]

Has anybody pulled heavy with a Quad box?

 

[cummins_crewcab]

Ok well I'm still as confused now as I was when I first started this thread. I'm about a mouse click away from ordering a TST. But I also want to see how the 03 Juice is going to be, but I know it won't have the potential of the TST but I like the reliability and safety of the Edge. Hmm, maybe I'll wait a bit and see if these zipped lip beta testers will spill any info.



Hey Tommy, if you read this, a simple yes or no on if you think I will be happy with the Juice and maybe a larger single someday or not?

 

[jsimpson]

I use Banks six pack and quickloader. Banks makes sure that the box doesn't juice at too low rpm, doesn't juice when egt gets near danger zone, and cuts juice at a hint of transmission slippage. You won't get as much power as other boxes (my Bully Dog Torque Dog would slip my lockup clutch!), but you get peace of mind.

 

[Fred Swanson]

I've pulled heavy with the quad, It was okay, but not near enough fuel for the twins. If you can't wait, get the TST. If you can wait, you'll be happy with the Juice.



Will the JUICE be as much as the TST for HP, who knows, maybe, maybe not. Right now, that is not an apples to apples comparison for the 555 or SO motors.



I've been BETA testing the JUICE for a week now, it works great, but again it is a Beta, gotta wait to see if the prod unit comes with more HP.

 

[driverno8]

I'm really happy with the spool of the HTB2. In fact I wish I would have gotten the killer B. If anything I'm not sure I love the ATS TC being as tight as it is. But I'm really, really happy with the way my truck tows. Here's an example from this last Sunday. I'm towing my boat home from Lake Havasu, AZ. For those that know the area... 40 West out of Needles it's the first big long, long hill you climb. I had my boat on the back 6,500lbs. It's 114? outside. Middle of the day. EZ on 1 & TST on 4/3. EGT at 1200? and steady (gotta love the cam and the htb2). 30psi at 2400rpm's. Trans temp was 210. Tow haul is off. I'm going 75mph up the hill. She's a humming. Needless to say I'm hauling the mail. I see a PSD up ahead with a similar size boat on the back. I'm thinking this is going to be great when I blow by him on the left. I still had a ton of pedal left to blow a puff a smoke as I go by. Then BOOOM!!! I lost a boost tube. It's the most gut wrenching sound you can hear. One that I've already experienced. It sucks. I must have not tightend it down enough when I did the turbo swap. The reason I know all these numbers is because I had just told my wife to get a pen and write them down. I was just so amazed with the way it was working. I wasn't even pushing the truck and thinking to myself how great this sucker tows. It's amazing. Almost makes me think of not doing twins. (yea right) She's set up as a towing machine right now. I love it. I'd recommend the htb2 to anyone.

 

[DieselNasty]

cummins crewcab,



What you are planning to do with your truck is basically what my dad (BMancin) is doing. My dad has an 03 3500 DRW 4x4 6sp HO 4:10 QC, we have a new SunnyBrook Titan 412 SUT, this thing empty is about 12000lbs and has a max weight of 18000lbs we have pulled through the Smokey Mts. with the trailer at about 15-16k. Right now the truck has a TST(twins program) Green cold air intake, and 4in turbo back exhaust with Auroturbine muffler, the truck was pulling through the mts at 60-70mph in 6th gear most of the time with the TST on 2x2. As we would go up a grade you would see max of 28psi boost and usually not over 1300deg EGTs. Sometimes if you started up the hill to slow you would end up downshifting to 5th and then going back up to 6th. With a trip from NJ to TN we averaged about 13mpg.



Eventually all the parts will come for the truck, they are all ordered, like twins, SBDDC, FASS, and some other little things.



Chris

 

[KSHall]

We just got back from the beach w/ my 2500 CTD auto QC 4x4 and 3. 73 gears and 8000 miles. We have a 34' TT 8000lb loaded down. from Huntington WV thru the Mts on I-64 and I-77. pulled down to 66 mph on Flat Top (3400') in 3rd gear and coming back up Fancy Gap it would not stay in O/D it would change from 3rd to 4th back to 3rd. My question is which box would be best to give me a lil' bit more umph to tow this and not kill a bunch of parts? Quad tow box or edge EZ. Also I ave. 10 mpg if I stayed below 70 mph.