traction bars mockedup, will they work?

[231jasonS]

Do you think these traction bars will work well.



I am not sure if they are long enough.



Also I dont know about the mounting to the frame. I plan on drilling and tapping the frame with a 7/16 20pt (fine) grade 5 bolt, 4 on side and 2 from under. Before i drill these holes in the frame i was wanting some feedback from the experts out there, or anyone else:-laf



What possible problems do you all see? Im thinking the mount point on the axle is to close to the center line of the axle.



Keep in mind that thus far ive spent no money as these were given to me from a 2nd gen truck.

 

[rbattelle]

I'm not sure I like drilling and tapping the frame. There's not much thickness there.

Have you run any calculations on this?

Ryan

 

[231jasonS]

Im also not sure about tapping the frame, but unless I drill a larger access hole on the back side and use a nut on the inside what options do you see?



No calculations, I wouldnt know how. The bars are just over 48" and they are even with the center U joint, about 10"behind the center bushing mount.

 

[nickleinonen]

i wouldn't drill and tap into the top/bottom of the frame rail. . and i would rather nuts on the inside of the rail [even though it is a pita to fish in the frame]

i like the mounting idea to go under the spring pack, but with one contact point front and rear, i don't think it will do much for controlling wheel hop. . i think it will end up pivoting around that single point on the axle. . i think you need to add an extra point on the rear axle, or remove the pivot point on the rear for a ridgid connection there, and add a swing connection towards the frame end [like most traditional traction bars]

$0. 02

 

[231jasonS]

Ya I was wondering about the pivot point on the rear. If it was under the axle i think it would be more effective. (which is how they were on the 2nd gen)



They axle mount point is about 2-3"s above the center line of the axle. I think this would stop some of the axle wrap from the spring, but not sure. I dont wont to mount to the frame until im pretty sure these will work.



Any thoughts would be helpfull. Thanks

 

[rbattelle]

I agree with Nick's comments.

I think the brackets should be welded to the frame rather than bolted. If you overbuild it, it should be strong enough, but I'm not sure whether the device will have the desired effect in preventing wheel hop.

Ryan

 

[sid325]

Just suggest them to your wife as a gift idea, she can call Brett, and you can get some real ones made for your truck, using your own money. Sounds pretty simple to me. :-laf:-laf:-laf



Jacob

 

[231jasonS]

Jacob,



Thats why im trying to make these FREE ones work. I can think of a few other things i would rather spend some money on.



Besides ive yet to find something to buy that will work with my air bags.

 

[sid325]

Oh yeah, didn't think about the airbags. So much for my idea.

 

[TAbbott]

Try this link:



Tuff Country Suspension TRACTION BARS : JC Whitney: Auto Parts & Accessories



These units work fairly well on my 06 2500 QuadCab CTD & I'm running 35" tires. They don't interfere with the airbags either.

 

[231jasonS]

CAl tracs maks a set that use 2nd gen style u bolts on the axle so you can mount the rear under the axle on a 2nd gen style spring plate. They run up to the front spring mount.



These work well for a drag racer, but my problem is under a heavy load (pulling 10K) the axle wraps up from spring flex. I was under the impression i would need the front mount to be up by the center bearing mount on the driveline.

 

[231jasonS]

Try this link:





These units work fairly well on my 06 2500 QuadCab CTD & I'm running 35" tires. They don't interfere with the airbags either.

Those look like they would not interfear, but how do they stop the axle from twisting up? I would think the axle would still pivot up.



Do you have any pics of these bars mounted?

 

[TAbbott]

I don't have any pics but there are some others on here or the DTR that are running these that do. They work by not allowing the axle to rotate either direction. All the axle can do is move vertically, which is fine. It's the load, rotate, violently unload, hop, violently load, rotate, violently unload cycle thats bad and breaks things. With this set-up, the rotate component of the cycle described above doesn't exist, which breaks the cycle. The tires just spin with little or no vertical hopping. I'm not saying they're as good as properly engineered and installed ladder bars, but they do work and they don't interfere with anything or cause loss of ground clearance when off-roading.

 

[TAbbott]

Speaking of pics, I was looking at yours again and I notice that your spring pack is very different than mine. I have an almost full length lower, essentially flat leaf that's nearly twice as thick as the others that the balance of the whole stack when fully laden sits on, preventing them from over flexing. Your truck seems to be missing that leaf... . along with the 3 short spacer blocks. I still have those spacers, although they have been relocated to the top of the spring stack, effectively lowering the rear suspension by 1. 5 inches. Retaining the spacers has the added benefit of placing the rear portion of the traction bar 1. 5 inches higher --- farther from the center of the axle which enhances its ability to control the spring wrap... making the rear suspension more like a 5 link, as used on a coil spring suspension, lacking only the lateral torque arm which isn't needed with leaves.

The way yours looks, I'd think the spring wrap would be awful... .

 

[231jasonS]

Tabott,



Yes ive replaced my overload spring with a Carli "mini-pak" the three smaller springs on the bottom of the pack. Huge ride improvement. But now the springs dont have that giant "bar"under them acting as a slapper bar.



I still have the short spacer blocks,under the spring. The wrap is bad, but only when i put my 5th wheel on it. I have the airbags to act as an overload when i put a lot of weight in/on it.

 

[231jasonS]

betterthanstock, Where did your post go? That was the feedback i was looking for. I did not design these and suspected they would not work well. This is why i mocked them up and posted to get some more educated opions.

 

[betterthanstock]

betterthanstock, Where did your post go? That was the feedback i was looking for. I did not design these and suspected they would not work well. This is why i mocked them up and posted to get some more educated opions.

Hey, that was quick, that you even saw that post. I don't want to offend anyone, so I took it off.



Look at some other pics, and see how they do it. But even those have the problem of attaching the ladder bars too rigidly to the axle, which acts like a very stiff roll bar. I need to make some myself. I took off one leaf, and the overload leafs, and have airbags (with extra volume chambers, for a great ride), but it shudders if I tow heavy, so I have had this on the back burner for a while.



The bars you have can only function if they are attached a great distance from the center of the axle (up or down, not in front of), or if you modify them to resemble Glacier's bars. But again, I disagree with how those bars are too stiff in the roll properties.



added on edit: What I mean by "a great distance" is like 5-6 inches lower than where you have them now, should work, if you can live with the ground clearance.



On the drilling, only drill the top 2 holes in the frame, to prevent cracks in the high stress zone. Don't drill in the lower flange. If the brackets were made for c-channel, and dont have 2 opposite holes to those seen, then weld another plate on the other side of bracket, to allow for 4 bolts, or 2 thru-bolts.

 

[231jasonS]

BetterTS, I did not see it on the thread, just my email notification. When i checked the email it was there but when i went to the site... MIA



No offense, thats why i posted here was to get some other opinons.



I was pretty much not going to run these bars because of my gut feeling they would not work well, which is why i wanted a gut check.



Have you seen the lazarsmith.com bars? What do you think? they are supposed to mount on the bottom or the shock bracket somehow. But they look like they still bolt to the frame.