Traded Edge EZ for TST PM3

[RowJ]

Just replaced my EZ with a TST PM3 adjustable. Love power and more responsive than I expected but... . one question?



On setting 5 & above, I'm back where I started with Edge, DD 2. 5's and stock HY-35 turbo - ie. having to back out of throttle due to EGT's shooting well over 1200 degrees (empty!).



Might have expected this on highest setting but not at #5 and maybe not at all with smaller injectors and a KSB-1B.



Note: The KSB-1B solved all EGT problems with the EZ & DD2. 5's. Could not get that combo over 1100 degrees, no matter what I did with throttle.



Anyone else have similar EGT's?

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Do you have the competition PM3 or the regular street version?

 

[RowJ]

Steve

Street Model

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Something sounds strange. What are you seeing for peak boost? I'll turn my box down when I drive tonight and get some peak EGT's for different levels and let you know what I'm seeing.

 

[RowJ]

Steve,

WOT - Setting #4 - 45+ psi. - steady at 1200 - 1250 degrees!

Can't hold it down for more than 4-5 sec on setting #5.



I paid for street version; any way of telling difference by looking at box?

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Sounds like you have the comp version to me. Call TST and ask about it. I think they have serial numbers on the case that they can look up what program is in the box. I see a peak of 43 psi on level 9 with bd I injectors on a PDR HX35 with the wastegate disabled.

 

[JSHAW]

I thought that the comp model just stopped defueling above 2700 RPMs ? Does it do something more than that?I'm asking because I have the competition model and am very curious.



Thanks, Jim Shaw

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

The comp model also has twice the overfueling that the street box does. Level 5 on the comp box is like level 9 on the street box.

 

[RowJ]

Steve,

Sp w/ TST after getting serial #. Natale said # not important??? Think she was very busy.

Said comp boxes come with different front label - Red - and says comp on it. Mine is Grey and does not say comp.

Jim, What's your label look like?

Steve, Look forward to hearing your #"s; Seems like our set ups are fairly similar? Appriciate your doing the test! I'll double check mine to be sure I got it right.



Whatever I have - I love it! Just didn't seem like I expected.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I just saw that you have EDM 1. 5 injectors. What are they supposed to produce power wise? Keep in mind that the PM3 is producing the same amount of power as your EZ somewhere between level 2 & 3 - at level 5 the PM3 is producing double the increase that your EZ did. Keep in mind that 1200 is a number that you don't want to exceed for continuous operation - as in a 3 minute hill climb loaded. Unloaded you can go above that no problem. I hit 1550 degrees regularly while unloaded for short periods (less than 10 seconds). When I'm towing I set my box on 5 and set the defuel point at 1200 degrees. I will hit peaks of 1500 degrees while accelerating and then it defuels down to 1200 within 10 seconds.

 

[RowJ]

I understand about going over 1200 degrees for short periods. I just don't like to (it's an extra insurance and longevity thing- will sleep better at 200,000 miles because I did). May relax about that in future but... Point is never could before after KSB-1B. Now can easily on #5 setting and above.



My EDM 1. 5's are 70-80 hp. TST literature says each setting (1-9) is additional 15 hp (maybe bit less for auto trans); so setting 4 would equal my EZ, no?



My DD2. 5's put in a lot more fuel than these 1. 5's - at least sounded that way; but the advertised hp is about 90. Also the smoke was way more than I wanted to baby my way around. Thus the reason for EDM's.



Maybe 10-20 hp difference, for arguments sake, now over before, but IMO, still doesn't jive with major differences in EGT's now over EZ & DD's.



Accidental Comp PM3 makes more sense to me. Will get solid set of numbers written down after work, compare with you tommorrow, if you have time, and c/b to TST after that , if still a ????

Thanks



Rowland

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Ok, did some testing. On level 5 accelerating at WOT from a stop through the top of 5th gear (~100 mph) I hit 1390 degrees. Level 5, WOT from a stop through the top of 4th gear (~75 mph) hit 1300 degrees. Level 3, WOT from a stop through the top of 4ht gear hit 1200 degrees. The EZ box increases peak hp by about 40 hp (80 hp increase is way down low) and tst's quote of 15hp/level is at peak which is where I came up with between level 2 & 3. Now I have a PDR HX35 with a 14cm housing whereas you have the KSB.

 

[JSHAW]

RowJ,



My box is red with yellow lettering-Competition. Double HP gains over street model must be right because on level 5 my box is a monster compared to my first PM3 street.



Jim Shaw

 

[RowJ]

Thanks Steve & Jim

Steve, Decided you were right. With the extra power I now have, 1200 degrees is unreasonable limit to set for pyro, unless I don't want to play with higher settings.

I WAS backing out of the throttle too soon. When I let the EGT's climb a little - the rate of climb slowed dramatically and even leveled off as Boost climbed another 2-3 points.



These look similar to your readings. Appreciate your feedback and your time. I just needed to hear it from someone who has been there/done that. Would you attribute my slightly higher egt's to differences in our injectors/turbo? You mentioned you leave yours on #9. Can you hold WOT? What EGT's?

Love this box. Like no forced timing. More power than I really need!

Thanks again, Rowland

 

[Big A]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Powermax does not advance timing by itself. It actually tricks the ECM to advance it, but withing limits set on ECM. That's the reason why I went with the Powermax. It is strictly a fueling box. I made the change from the EZ to the powermax myself, and I have to say that the power from the TST is smoother, than that of the Edge box. I'm not bad mouthing the EZ, I liked it for towing, but I believe the Powermax, will be a better power enhancement for my needs.

Big A

 

[TradedV-10foraCummins]

I was checking out this thread because I've been thinking about getting a PM3. ... Why the big differences in boost pressure compared to Steve? I realize you guys have different turbos, but how is it that Steve sees 43psi on level 9, and RowJ is getting 44psi on level 4 and 48psi on level 7?! EDM 1. 5's are rated at about 80hp and BD1's should be about 60hp, so there doesn't seem to be that much difference there. That should be more than offset by the fact that RowJ only has a regular PM3 and Steve has the Comp version.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I don't have a comp version - I have a custom one. My box has the street level fueling (50% over) but adds more fuel down low to spool the turbo and then backs off (gobs of smoke) and has a higher duty cycle for the solenoid so it maintains that max fueling rate to a higher rpm (because of my 4. 10's). The difference in boost levels would be due to the turbo's I'm sure. Running an HX35 I have REAL high drive pressures which isn't really good. Problem is I don't want to lose my turbo mounted exhaust brake because of towing and being in the north (remote mount wouldn't last long in our salt laden environment IMO) - so that limits my turbo choices big time.



I leave mine on level 7 because above that I get the defuel shudder because of the custom programming. I didn't get the shudder when I had a straight street box and would leave it on 9 then. Driving unloaded I really don't pay that much attention to the EGT's because even at WOT I can only accelerate for about 17 seconds before I'm at redline in 5th gear. So I'm never at a high EGT for very long. When I put the box on 9 at the dragstrip I'll see a peak EGT of about 1560 degrees.

 

[TradedV-10foraCummins]

Thanks for the clarification Steve. I thought from your previous posts that you had the Comp version. My bad. Tell me more about your custom program? I can't decide between the regular or Comp program. I want the low-end of the Comp box, but I'm not sure I want the the extreme fueling otherwise. Is this effectively what your programing does? How is the low-end power?



I posted a question a while back about the regular PM3 vs. the Comp version, and I never got any replies: My original Power Max question.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Yes, essentially that's what I have. The other part of what I have is a high duty cycle on the solenoid - 70%. The street box has a 55% duty cycle and the comp box has a 65%. What happens is the box adds whatever additional fueling at the level you've set (50% at level 9 on the street, 100% at level 9 on the comp) up until the solenoid hits the max duty cycle. Examples - this is all with a street box. Say at 1800 rpm@wot the ecm has the solenoid running at 30% and you have the box set on 9 (50% over) the duty cycle of the solenoid is now at 45%. Now you are at 2700 rpm and the ecm is setting solenoid at 40% and level 9 you would be at 60% on the solenoid. The box would have cut back it's overfueling so that it's at 55%. That level off point was at about 2400 rpm as I recall. We found that if we set it to 70% that it would continue the 50% overfueling all the way to 3200 rpm. I wanted that because with my 4. 10 gears I'm at 2900 rpm when I go through the traps at the dragstrip. I am taking a risk of overheating the solenoid because I'm running it harder than even the comp box does. Hope that helps.



The low end power hits hard and it smokes like crazy off boost. It does shudder on level 8 or 9 when letting off the throttle.

 

[RowJ]

Thanks again, Steve

Didn't realize you had 410 rear end or a customized PM3! Those make us a lot less similar than I thought. Just knew you were the guy to talk to about the TST box.

Rowland