Trailer Airbrakes

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John, I'm glad that you finally found your solution. This looks like just what I need for auxilary air for airing tires and running an impact wrench.

Dave, thanks for posting this information. I'm glad that TDR has members that strive to do quality work and document it. One comment though. Pipe dope works just as well as teflon tape. We use it on high pressure (5000psi) hydraulic systems with minimal leaks. We won't use tape because it gets in the valves if you ever have to take something apart. For this application it works fine though.

 

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John, why do you need air? I have a three axle trailer for my 25 foot sailboat - boat and trailer weigh 9200 pounds. I use hydraulic disc brakes on the front two axles that are operated by a vacuum controller. The truck master cylinder operates a vacuum controller and there is a hand control on the steering column. I have been using it for the past 6 years with no problems and really effective braking. I just got back from Anacortes, Washington with a fair number of mountain passes and was really comfortable the whole trip.

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'93 D-250 Club Cab, Emerald Green & Gold, 5-speed w Gear Vendors OD, 77K , ASC Sun Roof, Horton Fan, Transfer-Flo 45 gal tank/toolbox combo,PIAA Pro 90 Driving lites, 16cm turbo housing, fuel pressure adjusted by James Ray, '96 chrome wheels, Hella headlights Pre-luber, Fuel filter relocated, Chrome kit
May Madness registration committee 97,98,99,TDR ; December Dieselfest winner, 98;
Nationals 99

 

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John, why do you need air? I have a three axle trailer for my 25 foot sailboat - boat and trailer weigh 9200 pounds. I use hydraulic disc brakes on the front two axles that are operated by a vacuum controller. The truck master cylinder operates a vacuum controller and there is a hand control on the steering column. I have been using it for the past 6 years with no problems and really effective braking. I just got back from Anacortes, Washington with a fair number of mountain passes and was really comfortable the whole trip.

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'93 D-250 Club Cab, Emerald Green & Gold, 5-speed w Gear Vendors OD, 77K , ASC Sun Roof, Horton Fan, Transfer-Flo 45 gal tank/toolbox combo,PIAA Pro 90 Driving lites, 16cm turbo housing, fuel pressure adjusted by James Ray, '96 chrome wheels, Hella headlights Pre-luber, Fuel filter relocated, Chrome kit
May Madness registration committee 97,98,99,TDR ; December Dieselfest winner, 98;
Nationals 99

 

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bigharv, read through John's posts on this thread. He needs air due to european regs, he's in england.

 

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Hey here's some more info on trailer brakes. I am in the process of buying a new 5th wheel (Auto Mate) and as an option you can get electrically opperated hydraulic disc brakes. Yes indeed I checked that box.

 

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Originally posted by bigharv:
John, why do you need air?

<font color=blue>
Well, to cut to the chase, I don't need it but over here in Europe, the local law enforcement and their burocratic sidekicks won't accept electric trailer brakes. With the sort of GVWR loading we're talking about (around 9,000lbs), three axles and air over hydraulic brakes - this is guaranteed to shut up the most ignorant law enforcement officer - and I know this from past experience. Basically I'm just sick and tired of being pulled over and with this combo,so they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Grovers, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.

[This message has been edited by JohnMcIntyre (edited 07-30-2000). ]

 

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Originally posted by bigharv:
I have a three axle trailer for my 25 foot sailboat - boat and trailer weigh 9200 pounds. I use hydraulic disc brakes on the front two axles that are operated by a vacuum controller. The truck master cylinder operates a vacuum controller and there is a hand control on the steering column.

<font color=blue> When i started researching this, i was thinking only in terms of suck or blow, ie. on-board compressed air or make use of the vacuum pump. Your comments re: sucking (vacuum pump) could be a more convenient/cost-effective option, that is if the OEM on board vacuum pump is able to cope? Can you elaborate on your set-up and share the details with the TDR please?

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Grovers, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.

 

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Vacuum over hydraulic brakes (sucking kind) are going to be a whole lot easier to accomadate. Yes the stock vacuum pump can keep up. You mount a tank on your trailer and a gauge in your cab and when you first start up yo allow the pressure to get up to the recommended amount, don't remember the exact amount. Then you are on the road. It will be a lot easier to find axles equipped with this kind of brake. I think on axles that small they are drum brakes. They basically work identical to your truck brakes. The vacuum works a separate power booster mounted on the trailer, just like the one on your truck, which applies power to the hydraulic system like your truck brakes. Very smooth, none of the jerking that goes with eletric brakes. I know I will never go back. I think you have to get up to 10,000 lb dual wheel axles before you can get disk brakes, but on that small of a trailer drums should work fine. Talk to your trailer manufacturer, they should be able to upgrade your trailer to vac/hyd brake axles fairly reasonable. Then you just have to rig your truck up. They can usually do that for you as well. Hope this helps.
Nathan

 

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Originally posted by TNHotshot:
... ... . The vacuum works a separate power booster mounted on the trailer, just like the one on your truck, which applies power to the hydraulic system like your truck brakes. Very smooth, none of the jerking that goes with eletric brakes. I know I will never go back. ... ... . Talk to your trailer manufacturer, they should be able to upgrade your trailer to vac/hyd brake axles fairly reasonable. Then you just have to rig your truck up. They can usually do that for you as well. Hope this helps.
Nathan

<font color=blue> Thanks for your input Nathan- the news keeps getting better and better!! We're on a roll!! #ad


I haven't yet bought a trailer or made the compatible (suck rather than blow) modification to the truck itself. You speak very highly of this type of trailer/truck set-up, so can you plug/recommend a few trailer manufacturers, you've had dealings with or at least heard of? I'll be travelling from the west coast back to the east coast in the spring of 2001, so any such information would be very helpful in planning the trip.

Cheers

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Grovers, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.

 

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John
Redneck Trailer Supplies is probably the biggest trailer supply company in the east. Many trailer manufacturers get there trailers from here.
Redneck Trailer Supplies------573/ 472-3839
Equipment & Parts
2400 E. Malone
Sikeston, MO 63801
Fax 573/ 472-0416
There are also many trailer manufacturers in the Sikeston, MO area. I am not sure what kind of trailer you are talking about getting. I own several flatbed trailers. Some of them are from Sikeston. I bought them used so I am not sure which company manufactured them. I have one dual tandem trailer (20K gross) it was built by Savannah Machine Shop in Savannah TN. My next trailer will be a 48' 24K dual tandem trailer built by Tarasport trailers www.tarasport.com
They build 18 wheeler trailers. I would recommend calling Redneck and asking them about the axles and asking them to recommend a trailer manufacturer. They are probably your best bet. If you have any more questions, post them here or email me. Hope this helps.
Nathan

 

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What kind of trailer are you going to have built? Enclosed, flatbed, car hauler, travel trailer? bumper pull, goosneck, flatbed. How wide are your axles going to be? Standard (6'4") or legal limit (6'10") What are the requirements on axle width in Europe? I can probably help you more with more info.

 

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Originally posted by TNHotshot:
What kind of trailer are you going to have built?

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Here's what the shopping list looks like Nathan, I'd consider a good used trailer that could be modified for airbrakes operation, and to answer your axle question - axle widths in Europe are pretty much the same as in the USA.
Here's the trailer specs I'm working to:
Between 22 and 24 feet long (not counting A-frame), axle-widths are US legal limit (6'10"), car/truck hauler, 7 feet 6 inches wide nominal, 2 x 6 inch outriggers (takes it to 8'6" width for occasional oversize load). , 3 axles (rearwards mounting preference), Class 5 hitch, bumper pull compatible, vacuum operated air over hydraulic brakes on 2 axles, ramps, 24v electric winch, trailer lighting, independent trailer parking brake (european requirement)

JMc

[This message has been edited by JohnMcIntyre (edited 08-01-2000). ]

 

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All of the parts for my vacuum over hydraulic were purchased locally at Yerby Brake Supply here in Sacramento. The specialized parts are the Hydraulic to Vacuum control valve with the hydraulic line tee'd into the rear brake output of the master cylinder. There is a shuttle valve under the hood which controls vacuum to trailer from either the HydVac valve or the hand control. The hand control is mounted on the steering column and has an integral vacuum gauge. I mounted a vacuum tank under the body on the right side - it is about three feet long an 8" diameter. I used 1/2" copper lines from the valves up front to the quick release couplers mounted near the trailer hitch, the left one being the supply and the right one the control line, with neoprene vacuum hose where needed for sharp turns and spots that might vibrate. Plugs are inserted when not trailering.
On the trailer, I have combination again of neoprene and copper to the vacuum cylinder (it looks just like a power brake cylinder). The system is very simple, under normal driving, vacuum is on both sides of the diaphragm and when truck brake (or hand controller) is applied, air is let into system and the master cylinder on the trailer applies hydraulic pressure to the discs - calipers and pads are from a 85 Dodge Daytona, rotors are from Unique Functional Products. The master cylinder can handle all three axles but I am only using brakes on the front two. I installed this system on this trailer in 1987 to preclude losing another boat. My first Sailboat was lost due to surge brakes not doing their job when the trailer started to sway. This system has worked for many thousands of trouble free trailering - six trips to the Pacific Northwest and one trip to Lake Powell (Arizona-Utah). Control is smooth and sure.

 

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<font color = blue> Many thanks for this Harv. I've just got off the phone to these Brake Supply people in Sacramento and there are a couple of detail changes I will have to work out. These are now a further consideration due to technology advances and general product improvement/evolution. I'll post the information summary here in a couple of days.

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Grovers, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese Titan class 5 hitch, 60 Gal Aerotank.

 

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Best of luck to you, John.