Transmission Strength

[CBlack]

I've searched through the forums but can't find, or don't know how to properly search for the answer.



How much can the 68rfe hold up to? I know the transmissions that came in my truck and the ones there after upto the current one, can only handle up to about 50hp and 200lb over stock.



I ask because I am a tinkerer and performance person.



Thanks.

 

[HBarlow]

I don't have an answer or a suggestion where to find an answer. All I have is an opinion and a recommendation. Each is worth what you paid for it.

A recent thread reported the second failure of a MOPAR six speed automatic and complained that the dealer was ignoring him. Most likely for good reason. The poster didn't admit to it but I would make a substantial bet he has turned up the power of his ISB6. 7. Sag2 or one of the other TDR member dealer techs stated in that thread that the transmission is not tolerant of higher power outputs. I believe he is correct. It seems, however, to be a great transmission at factory power levels.

If you are a tinkerer and performance enthusiast as you stated I would recommend you keep the truck you have. I don't think you want a new ISB6. 7. IMO the new engines with emission controls are not tolerant of power enhancement and the latest software prevents it. A reprogram attempt will result in a no-start condition and trip on a rollback to the dealer.

Chrysler/Dodge is a company in financial trouble trying valiantly to emerge from bankruptcy. Chrysler/Dodge cannot afford excessive warranty claims caused by unauthorized modification and abuse of their products. I expect to hear of more warranties voided and repair claims rejected when the obvious cause is modification and abuse.

 

[CBlack]

Perhaps I should have expounded further. If I purchased a truck under warranty, I'd keep I stock, unless I could find a dealer who would agree to the EGR and DPF deletes, which there are those close by who would.

I was thinking down the road. If I were to say, in 5 years or so decide I want to tweak it, would the transmission hold up somewhat or would it be same ol same ol.

And yes, the engine and fuel pump in my current truck are a tinkerers dream, I do believe.

Thanks for the input though. I've read yours and many others posts on how reliable your truck, engine and transmission have been. I think the new 68 is a reason unto itself to purchase a 6. 7 from what I've read, albeit a used one as I can't justify buying a new truck from a government run company.

 

[Bob4x4]

The 68rfe is by far the best Dodge trans yet... ... ... ... ... It will tolerate mild uprates for a good while. Add some big power and you need to find a good trans builder.

 

[MrLuckey]

IMO the new engines with emission controls are not tolerant of power enhancement

Harvey, I totally respect most of what I've seen you post so don't take this wrong but out of curiosity, what makes you believe the engines themselves are not tolerant of power enhancement? I probably am just not taking what you typed correctly or in the right context.



As to the transmission, after endless searching I'm not finding too many transmission failures, instead i just keep 'hearing' that the transmission can't handle much more power I have to believe that I'm not the only one running around w/smarty at 7 or 9. I spent a good part of today playing ruthlessly in the rain in 4-Hi w/Smarty on 7... lol way too much fun!



Disclaimer - Keep in mind that if I have to replace the transmission with a 'built one' in 15-20,000 miles I won't mind and will actually be relieved so that I can really put the hp to my girl. I fully realize that the fun is being had on my dime They're probably right about the trans - I'll post my mileage and give an idea of the abuse level when she goes south haha

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, I totally respect most of what I've seen you post so don't take this wrong but out of curiosity, what makes you believe the engines themselves are not tolerant of power enhancement? I probably am just not taking what you typed correctly or in the right context.

As to the transmission, after endless searching I'm not finding too many transmission failures, instead i just keep 'hearing' that the transmission can't handle much more power I have to believe that I'm not the only one running around w/smarty at 7 or 9. I spent a good part of today playing ruthlessly in the rain in 4-Hi w/Smarty on 7... lol way too much fun!

Disclaimer - Keep in mind that if I have to replace the transmission with a 'built one' in 15-20,000 miles I won't mind and will actually be relieved so that I can really put the hp to my girl. I fully realize that the fun is being had on my dime They're probably right about the trans - I'll post my mileage and give an idea of the abuse level when she goes south haha

Your questions and comments are valid. I should have gone just a bit farther in my earlier post to achieve clarity.

The ISB6. 7 engine itself is probably as strong and durable as any previous Cummins engine. It is certainly capable of greater power levels. But as it is assembled in the new Dodge Rams with DPF, EGR, etc. I think it is likely to experience more emissions equipment related problems if modified.

To achieve power gains more fuel is generally required and more fuel is going to produce more soot. Some power gains can be accomplished with injection timing changes but the factory timing is not established for peak power but for emissions control. Altering injection timing is also likely to increase soot production. More soot is almost certain to shorten EGR and DPF service life and more likely to cause sooting of the VGT which I read will cause binding and destruction. My guess is even if the external soot reduction hardware is removed the turbo may still be a weak point due to its design and close tolerances. I could be and hope I am wrong.

If you can remove all the power, economy, and reliablilty hampering emissions control junk with the blessing of your dealer and if you fund your own warranty repairs as you stated I agree with you. The 6. 7 is probably easily capable of making awesome levels of power rather easily.

Keep in mind . . . I could be wrong as I have no experience with them but as I understand what I have read and been told, the newer ISB6. 7s and those which have had recent reflashes performed may not accept a programmer. The bootloader segment of the software is designed to shut the engine down. Some computer/power mod genius may be able to overcome that in time but if I had to guess I would guess that Cummins engineers made it as difficult to defeat as possible.

My experience with pickup versions of ISB6. 7 Ram trucks is limited to a couple of test drives before I ordered my truck but the MOPAR six speed automatic offers gearing and performance similar to the Aisin in my C&C. The new six speed automatics provide an enormous improvement over the previous 48RE and a pleasure to drive or tow with. I have not heard of failures either except for the recent TDR thread which complained his dealer was refusing to repair his truck. A post like that causes my alarm bells to sound and I assume the poster modified and trashed his truck and his dealer knows it.

I haven't heard any news from Bill and Stefan Kondolay of DTT but I heard that Stefan ordered a new Ram w/68RFE as soon as they hit the market. I would guess that the Kondolays are heavily engaged in abusing, breaking, and improving the 68RFE behind the scenes right now. By the time you guys begin breaking yours DTT will probably be offering upgraded parts and modifications to make them bullet-proof like they did with the 48REs.

Edit: I should add this: I have no argument whatsoever with those who modify their trucks. I have been a performance enthusiast since my teenage years in the middle '50s. My '01 Ram had RV275hp injectors installed when it was almost new and has tehm to this day. My argument only arises when owners modify their trucks, break them, and then whine loudly in the TDR forums when their dealers void their warranty and present them with an estimate for repairs. I love power and would love to see my truck produce even more power. Massive torque and acceleration that pushes me back in the seat are fun. I simply take a dim view of warranty scammers who damage their vehicles and expect the rest of us to pay.

 

[2Rowdy]

I have heard of alot of guys running the MHP tcm tune. I for one am going to wait until I hear more feed back, maybe around Christmas.



Order aftermarket Dodge performance tuning, exhaust, and parts



I am not affiliated or trying to sell this product. It's just info.

 

[gsbrockman]

But as it is assembled in the new Dodge Rams with DPF, EGR, etc. I think it is likely to experience more emissions equipment related problems if modified.

What percentage of 6. 7L owners that are "hungry" for more power will ultimately end up leaving emissions equipment on any way ?



I'd bet it is an extremely small percentage... ... .....



Greg

 

[HBarlow]

They can't remove the variable geometry turbo. There have been some sooted up. I don't know if removal of all the emissions junk will reduce or eliminate soot that binds the turbo nozzle.

 

[2Rowdy]

HBarlow it is possible to put a regular turbo on a 6. 7liter. I don't know all of the particulars to the install. I personally know a guy in Big Springs that was running a non-vgt turbo. He sold the truck due to a little one on the way.

 

[gsbrockman]

They can't remove the variable geometry turbo.

KYDTR



The ol' Kentucky boy above did very well on his 6. 7L. :-laf



Greg

 

[firemansdiesel]

Usually the guys who had problems w/ the emission stuff went w/ deletes and problem/s gone away. As long as you do it right w/ the deletes you'll be trouble free. The auto transmission holds roughly what the 48re for extra holding power before upgrading. Right now there is not much out there for the 68rfe replacement (only ATS & Suncoast rebuild kits/partial rebuild/replacement).



O' once you put a 5. 9 manifold on a 6. 7 then there is basically unlimited choices like the 5. 9's w/ turbos. W/ alittle tweaking on top of it. Once you do all deletes then the VGT is the weak link.

 

[MrLuckey]

Harvey, thanks a ton for the clarification. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing more about DTT and Suncoast to see what they come up with, I'll probably be a customer in the next year or so (maybe sooner if I can't talk myself into backing off the smarty and playing in 4wheel lock)

 

[gsbrockman]

A little more 68RFE info can be found here :



68RFE Transmission Update - Dodge Talk Community Forum



Greg

 

[HBarlow]

I stand corrected. I had no idea that the turbo could be replaced with an earlier simple turbo. I would have guessed that all the electronics would have made that difficult to impossible. I guess the exhaust brake function of the VGT could be replaced by the old external add-on Jacobs, PacBrake, etc.

Thanks to those who corrected me.