Truck and Camper weights

[DPelletier]

Well, no more guessing. Weights according to the certified scale are as follows;



Truck empty:

Front axle - 4254 lbs

rear axle - 2821 lbs

gvw - 7076 lbs



This was with me (200 lbs) and a full tank of fuel as well as the tailgate, 3/8" thick rubber bed mat and misc. crap in the underseat storage, etc.



With the Camper:

Front axle - 4453 lbs

rear axle - 5357 lbs

gvw - 9788 lbs



The camper is a 1996 Bigfoot 25C9. 5 and had empty tanks (all), one full 20lb propane, all our pots, pans, dishes, etc. as well as some food and drink and clothes.

Some observations;

- 1) My camper isn't that heavy for a premium unit and Bigfoot's weights are close to advertised. Dry weight for my unit is supposed to be 2354 lbs without any options. According to my calculations, the scale says 2712 lbs minus the tailgate. That leaves 358 lbs for the propane, tailgate, tie-downs, tools and all the crap in the camper.

- 2) Despite having 2712 lbs on the truck, my overloads are at least a half inch from engaging. I don't know how much weight they expect you to put in the truck before the overloads start to work, considering that according to the GVWR, I'm already 988 lbs over. I obviously need to either have a suspension shop modify the overloads or remove them and add air bags.

- 3) Although I'm over the manufacturer's GVWR, I'm under the rear axle GAWR by 727 lbs and under the tire max load capacity by 1473 lbs.

- 4) It is interesting to note that the Bigfoot literature has suggested truck/camper combinations. According to this literature a HD 3/4 ton truck is capable of hauling ANY Bigfoot camper including the 3000 10. 5. The 2500 Series discription states in part "This group of products is designed and built for owners of medium heavy vehicles such as type 2500 pick-up trucks (3/4 Ton). " The 3000 Series descriptions states in part " This group of products is designed and built for owners of heavy vehicles such as Type 2500HD and 3500 pick-up trucks (3/4 HD and 1 Ton) ".



Before the flaming starts , I will clarify my position - I don't think my truck is capable of safely hauling a fully loaded 10. 5' 3000 series camper. I do think that my truck can haul my camper safely. I also think that the manufacturer's GVWR's are too generic and I tend not to be that concerned about the issue.

That all having been said, my next truck will be a dually 6 spd.



OK, Fire away!

Dave

 

[RustyJC]

Dave,



I had heard that the RCMP were weighing pickup/camper rigs and ticketing those over the GVWR posted on the driver's door pillar. Is that no longer the case?



Just curious since I noticed you were in B. C.



Rusty

 

[Dean Upson]

Dave,



You are going to love the Dually 6 speed (Silver is a nice color ),



Dean

 

[DPelletier]

Rusty,

I had heard similar stories in the past and so I did some research prior to purchasing my camper (I went so far as to review the minutes of a Cabinet meeting where the issue was discussed). It seems that there were occurances of this happening and most of the incidents seemed to happen in one particular RCMP detachment area near Golden, B. C. I no longer have the research in front of me, but it was several years ago that these inspections took place and my understanding is that concerns were brought forward to the particular detachment and the RCMP were "made aware" of the RV industry's concerns regarding vehicle inspection. The governments current position is that they do not "target" RV owners for being over GVWR and that there is no formal system in place for checking the weight of non-commercial vehicles. The RCMP's position is that unless there is an obviously unsafe overloaded condition (i. e. bumper dragging on the ground) that they don't have the manpower or mandate to deal with RV GVWR issues. Obviously neither the Government of B. C. or the RCMP are about to give permission for exceeding manufacturer's GVW ratings, but you can "read between the lines" so to speak.

Also, it is entirely possible that a particular RCMP Officer or detachment could all of a sudden decide to put RV weights on the top of thier hit list, but I haven't heard of any problems in that regard lately.

As part of a motorcycle racing series that races all over southern B. C. as well as northern Washington, I have yet to hear from anyone that has had a problem with enforcement.

As an interesting aside, my buddy with his Chevy K3500 and 3000 series Bigfoot is about 1000 lbs over GVWR on his dually. I suspect that the majority of the truck/camper combos on the road today are over GVWR. The only ones that aren't are the 3500's with lightweight campers. Unfortunately most people that go to the effort of buying a dually don't want a lightweight 8 or 9' camper.

Dave

 

[WatsonJ]

Truck & Camper weights

This is great. I have a 2000 24v CTD Quad Cab short bed.

2WD with 47re Trans. (limited slip, trailer tow, camper, etc)

overload springs, sway bars.



The truck weighs 6000 lbs empty.

The max GVWR is 8800 lbs.



In my mind, this means I have 2800 lbs to play with in selecting

a slide in. (I also tow a 3600 lb boat/trailer)



I visted an S & S dealer today and was told that "no... I have a 4410 lb GAWR on the front, and a 6084 GAWR on the rear.

for a total of 10494 lbs. 6000 lbs empty weight minus 10,494 = 4454 lbs available for camper.

I think this guy is smokin hash!



How do I go about getting this done properly?



Thanks in advance!Oo.

 

[DPelletier]

Well, smoking something anyway!!!

I wish you could just add up your GAWR's to come up with a GVWR, but as you noted 2+2=3 in this case. Legally, your entitled to carry 2800 lbs (assuming your empty weight of 6000 lbs is correct), but don't forget about your hitch weight (typically 10 - 15% of your load ). Assuming the tongue weight of your trailer is 360 lbs, that leaves 2440 lbs. Now allowing a conservative figure for water, propane and gear of maybe 750 lbs, your left with about 1690 lbs IF you want to be legal. Unfortunately there aren't many campers out there in the 1500 - 1600 lb range.

Of course, with my truck at 7076lbs with me in it, minus my wife and kids and dog and the same 750 lbs for gear leaves me with a completely ridiculous legal payload of about 600 lbs! Anyone have a 9' camper c/w shower, oven, queen bed, etc for sale that weighs 600 lbs?? I'll take two! IMHO, 4454 lbs is too much to carry on your truck. I am comfortable with my camper at 2712, but I wouldn't go much more. Do what you like. I am not knocking the guys that want to stay legal. Be informed and do whats best for you.

My 25cents worth.

Dave

 

[sellesd]

Is the GVWR set by Lawyers or Engineers. I have read in several places that there is nothing you can do, short of buying a new truck, to increase your trucks GVWR.



If the GVWR is set by Engineers, we should be able to determine the weak link and improve it. The 03 3500 QC 4X4 SRW has a GVWR of 900lbs more than my 03 2500 QC 4X4. It is my understanding that the only differences are a 10. 5" axle to an 11. 5" axle, heaver springs with overloads. But changing my axle, springs, and adding overloads does not increase my GVWR.



I plan on carrying our camper several times a year, but for the most part the truck will be my daily driver. I have added RideRite air bags and the truck seems to handle the load just fine.



If BC doesn't want truck/campers, they will use heavy handed tactics, such as writing tickets to truck carrying camper, to drive them away. In the end, it's all about money.



Of course, IMHO



Shannon

 

[DPelletier]

Shannon,

You are absolutely correct, there is virtually nothing you can do to legally change your GVWR. I mean, you could replace your axles with 44,000 lb axles off of a class 8 truck, but your door sticker will still say 8800 lbs max GVWR. This does not mean that you cannot modify your truck to more safely handle a load, it just means that no matter what you do, your still legally overweight above 8800 lbs . Some food for thought;

- a 2wd truck's front GAWR is significantly less than a 4x4, but they both still have the same GVWR.

- a truck with a Dana 80 rear has a rear GAWR of 7500 lbs compared to my Dana 70 at a GAWR of 6084, yet both trucks still have the same GVWR.

- a truck with a camper package (overloads and sway bars), has the same GVWR as one without.

Make sense? I didn't think so.

One of my half tons at work has a larger payload capacity than my truck on paper due to it having a much, much less unloaded weight, but I will tell you right now that if you tried to put my camper on it you would barely clear the driveway before the wheels fell off! Bottom line: It sucks that the manufacturer's weight ratings are not specific to each VIN # and it also sucks that there is no reasonable method of having a vehicle inspected after modification to raise GVWR.

Is there a moral here? I guess not. Well maybe its " Buy the biggest, baddest truck you can the first time"



Dave

 

[roadranger]

Originally posted by DPelletier



gvw - 9788 lbs





Before the flaming starts I also think that the manufacturer's GVWR's are too generic and I tend not to be that concerned about the issue.



OK, Fire away!

Dave [/B]

You'll get no flaming from me--I agree with you completely.



With my new camper loaded on, my GVW is 11,800.



*BUT* I AM within ALL component weight ratings.



FRONT axle actual 4740 rated 4850

REAR axle actual 7060 rated 7500

GVW actual 11,800 rated 12,350



Rickson 19. 5 wheels rated 4500

Dunlop load range H tires rated 4930 each.



Since the truck's VIN number is on the plate below the windshield...



What's to prevent me from removing that pesky GVW tag on the door jamb that everybody's worried about?



Oo.

 

[DPelletier]

Roadranger, This is too funny!! I just sent you a PM. Must have both been typing at the same time. I agree, people need to spend a lot less time being concerned about the door sticker and more time checking/modifying or upgrading any weak links! Would they still be able to give me grief if I convert my truck to a dually? The truth is the difference between your truck and a 3500 dually is virtually limited to the tires and rims. I don't know how the stability of the Ricksons will compare to a dually (I imagine the sidewalls are MUCH stronger/stiffer), but if you were to bolt on dual wheels on your truck, it WOULD be a 3500 as far as capability (and safety) goes. The sticker issue is between you and the various AHJ's (authorities having jurisdiction). , and has little or nothing to do with your rig being safe, capable and comfortable.

my 2,222 cents worth!

Dave

 

[WatsonJ]

Truck & Camper weights

Thanks all

Your responses have confirmed that confining my search to

the "lite" versions of slide-in cabovers is correct.



It seems that with the tongue weight of my trailer now figuring

in the equation, something like the Lance Lite 815 with a dry

weight of about 1800 lbs is the only way to go.



I wonder..... will air bags be necessary?

 

[Dean Upson]

I have found that Airbags or Timbrens add to the stability and handling of the truck.



Dean

 

[DPelletier]

I think Dean is right. Airbags or Timbrens may not be "necessary", and of course, they won't change your sticker! But they will make a difference in stability. I have a friend considering Timbrens for his 7700 lb GVWR light duty 3/4 ton for his 1500 series Bigfoot (around 2000 lbs dry). No maintenance, very little possibility of failure and easy to install. Only drawback is no adjustability. As I don't use my truck empty all that much and am not opposed to a very firm ride, I'm thinking of having my overload springs re-arched so that they engage earlier (or always). This solution is relatively cheap, very easy and will never need any care or maintenance. I'm thinking it might also be even more stable than air bags. I might as well take them off if I don't do something with them, my overloads are doing nothing right now! We'll see.



Dave

 

[Dean Upson]

Dave,



The Timbrens have absolutely no effect on the ride when you are empty, as there is clearance between the Timbrens and the axle when you do not have a load. I will not say they are better than the air bags, but they are easier to put on and they are pretty much foolproof and no maintenance or worry about a puncture or air leak. I will say that I never had a problem with the AirBags when I had them. Inflating and deflating them was a bit of a pain, but no big deal. I used a portable 12v compressor that worked great and only cost about 35 bucks.



Dean

 

[roadranger]

My experience has been that the truck handles MUCH better riding down on the helpers than perched up on an air bag.

Plus the air bags are a PITA to keep aired up, AND they restrict suspension travel when mounted above the factory helpers. I took 'em OFF my truck.



When I upgraded to the new heavier camper, I had a spring shop install a set of 4 leaf helpers to replace the factory single leaf. Works great! With the camper off the truck, the helpers aren't even close to the pads/stops, for a smooth ride. Put that 4200lb camper on, and the rear rides down level with the front, and sits on the helpers, spreading the weight out along 4 ft of frame length.