Truck died on freeway - makes no sense...

[JStangeland]

posted this in the 911 forum, i'll try here too:



Rolling down the freeway, my work truck just up & died on me. It's a 93.

Had my tools on board so I got to some diagnostics.

Definitely have fuel, confirmed fuel delivery to the injection pump.

My gauge doesn't work exactly right so there've been a couple of times I ran out of fuel, so I dumped some in the tank and cracked the injectors, got fuel at them and tightened back down and it started right back up.

I did the same deal this time but am only getting fuel at the #3 & #4 injectors, all the others aren't giving me anything, totally dry. ?????

Why only #3 & 4? I cranked & cranked (pausing of course) until the battery drained. Big air leak someplace? It was running completely fine up until that moment so where would it have come from?

I called AAA but they wouldn't tow me because I have a utility bed full of tools and plumbing parts and it would've been too heavy for their equipment so I had to call a commercial towing outfit and give them $180. ouch.

but it should've started. I'm completely bewildered. I have all my tools and parts aboard so I need to get it back on the road asap.

 

[JLEONARD]

Lift pump failure.

Sound like exactly the symptoms I had. My lift pump was only about 2 years old so I didn't think it was the root cause. I learned a lot.

Hope this helps.

Jay

 

[PToombs]

Is the wire on the shut-off solenoid, is there power on the wire? The spade connectors get loose over time and break connection. Solenoid might be bad. Turn the key on and pull the wire, then touch it to the terminal. Can you hear it click? If not, then pull it out, remove the plunger and spring, and reinstall. Try to start. If it does, then you know it's bad. You will have to shut it off with the lever on the side of the pump.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[JStangeland]

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at those things in the morning.

What's got me though is fuel gushes out of #3 & 4 injectors when I crack the nut at the hard line but none of the others.

I'm hoping it's not the VE but I worry... .

Is it a big job?

 

[JLEONARD]

Is it a big job?

Is what a big job?



Don't sweat the big stuff... get the little things right. Like I said I had exactly those symptoms... ok not exactly... I had what "looked like" good fuel flow out of 1 and 2 (not 3 and 4) when I was bleeding... . but no start.

 

[JStangeland]

it isn't the lift pump; the po had put a fass in it. i was able to verify plenty of flow through it.

 

[ChrisWilliams]

Once you verify the fuel solenoid, I would go ahead and change the lift pump. If the VE is bad , something caused it and the lift pump is the prime suspect. After the lift pump change, bleed all the air out and work forward, looking for fuel at all injectors. If you cannot get all the air out, work backwards through to the tank. Once you have good fuel flow to the VE with no air, it will spray out the cracked injector lines after just a few seconds cranking. If you still have no fuel to all injectors, then change the VE. I don't consider it a big job. There are guys here that can change out the VE and never put down their beer. Your first time, it will take about a day to be thorough and follow all directions. A set or wrenches, sockets, torque wrench, and crow foot wrenches should do the job and something to turn the alternator pulley with. Oh, don't forget a new fuel filter!

 

[PToombs]

Even with the solenoid off, you will get fuel at the injectors. Just not enough to run the engine. Don't think the solenoid is good just because you have fuel.

 

[JStangeland]

the last post helped ease my mind and I checked the fuel shutoff solenoid with 12V straight from the battery. Got no click, so encouraged that I might not be in there most of the workday I pulled the solenoid body from the assembly (the part the wire plugs onto). I was going to pull the spring and plunger as recommended put didn't find a spring in there?

The only plunger I was seeing was the rubber plug attached to that solenoid body I pulled out. I hacked that off, threaded the solenoid body back in and tried to bleed it out but I was still not getting fuel at the injectors.

I had to get to a job so I didn't crank and crank, and also I wasn't sure I totally had gutted the spring and plunger referred to. Maybe there is something still in there blocking the flow of fuel? From the posts it doesn't seem the plunger needed to be hacked off, and I didn't find a spring.

Any ideas???

Thanks guys!

 

[PToombs]

You don't need to "gut" anything. Just remove the whole metal plunger with the rubber tip. If you put the plunger back in, it's still blocking fuel flow. I blew part of the rubber tip off mine, so I cleaned all the rubber off on a wire wheel. It still shut the truck off with no rubber.

The spring should be inside the plunger. If not, you may have lost it.

 

[JStangeland]

thanks for the reply... sorry if i'm being a little thick-headed

i pulled the whole assembly out and i actually cut off the plunger just below the rubber head at the short pushrod which is inside the solenoid.

so what i pulled out was a fat cylindrical piece with the spade terminal on one end and the rubber-tipped plunger on the other. it's got a hex collar that i got onto with a crescent wrench.

i couldn't see any other way to remove the plunger other than shearing it off with a pair of linesman pliers.

is there a way to open up the fat cylinder? is that where the spring is?

thanks!

 

[PToombs]

The fat cylindical piece is the solenoid. The rubber tip is on the plunger, it should fall out of the solenoid. Normally it stays in the hole in the IP, and you have to fish it out with needlenose pliers.

Sounds like the plunger is jammed in there. Grab it with pliers and try to pull it out.

 

[JStangeland]

oops... .

After doing lots more reading on the FSS, I discovered that I have actually hacked the plunger off my ksb solenod, dummy that I am.

I kind of thought the location was wrong as the access was a little too easy, but the description matched and there was a spade terminal and I thought perhaps the po had hacked off the bracket already... and, of course, I was in a big rush to get it done.

So yesterday afternoon I went and picked up the part at a VW parts counter from the number I found in the archives. $60.

I unbolted the accelerator cable bracket and bent the bracket back & forth until it broke, got myself a 24mm wrench, took off the bolt that held the three wires onto the terminal, and... man is that sucker on there! The wrench got to the point of flexing and still the dang thing is frozen. So I sprayed some penetrating oil on it and I'll try it again and have a hammer along this time.

I actually was getting it to click when I jumped it straight off the battery hot terminal, but it was a weak click so I am still holding out hope that the FSS is the source of non-start...

Of course, now another question that is raised is will the engine run with the plunger hacked off the ksb solenoid... . ??

 

[PToombs]

Well, that explains why you weren't getting it!

I don't know if you hurt the KSB much, never had one off. It should run, just not positive. Maybe somebody who has can help you out on that.

 

[GHarman]

Ist Gen Post, page 48, KSB fuel leak, dated 30 May, 2007. Lots of info plus schematics on KSB. Lots of input from TDR Members. This may help with the KSB. GregH

 

[PToombs]

Thanks Greg!

 

[JLEONARD]

The solenoid click is in fact very faint. . I can barely hear mine.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

What did you ever find out was your problem?

 

[Greenleaf]

Oh. . Man... ... ... :-laf



You gotta laugh at that.



1993 engine, right? The KSB is an add on. You didn't hurt anything other then disable the KSB function becasue you cut the plunger off. It can't close the bleed-off port so the KSB cannot build case pressure to increase pump time.



No worries. The truck will run fine. Some of use die-hards don't use the KSB anyhow.