Archived Truck is dead - No reading on voltmeter

[Royk]

Check gauges light was on. Voltmeter=0. Eventually lost all electric, went into limp mode. Can't restart. Besides alternator, what else could it be? Truck sits 85 miles away in Harrisburg and I need to go down tomorrow, fix it and get it back.



Roy

 

[K5IP]

I don't know much about the 2002, and perhaps the voltmeter is driven by the pcm, but you might try:

Turn on headlights, are they on?

If yes, do they stay on when you try to start?

If they are on, and then go off under the load of the starter, you might check battery connections, or the battery itself.

An external multimeter would be invaluable in locating this problem. If you have one, look for battery voltage at the battery terminals themselves. (both open circuit and under a load. ) If the terminal voltage itself is very low, especially under load, you may have a bad (shorted battery). They (batteries) can be seperated by removing a connecting ground, for additional troubleshooting.

If the battery voltage is around 12Vdc open circuit and above 9Vdc under starter load, your batteries and alternator are OK.

Beyond that I can nota help

Rog

 

[GAmes]

85 miles isn't far if the batteries are charged. Since troubleshooting and repair are a pita far from home I'd suggest taking two fully charged batteries with you. Bring it home and toubleshoot. Could be the alternator (which I doubt, mine lasted 400k) the crank pick-up, bad batteries, bad connections, etc.

 

[Royk]

I'm running in and out, so I'm being brief. I'll be back in about 45 minutes to elaborate on the problem. Batteries are pretty much dead. Truck was barely startable with a jump from an F250 HD gasser. After cables were removed, truck ran for about 30 seconds, sputtered a few times and died. Jumped again, started and ran with me giving it throttle. Cables came off and it died again. Temp was about 30 degrees. Connections were the first thing I checked and all are very tight.



Multimeter is the first thing I'm packing. If anyone knows what size tools I need for the following, it would be very helpful: Battery terminals, alternator, tensioner for the serpentine belt. I need to pack up some tools tonight for the trip. Thanks.



Roy

 

[lmills]

If memory serves me, the cps used to control the charging on a 12 V. I am not sure if still does that on the 24V's or not.

 

[lmills]

have you checked for codes??

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

On my 97, the two alt. bolts are 1/2". My battery bolts are stock-1/2". The tensioner uses a 3/8 drive ratchet. Bring 1/2" socket and open end wrench. Bring channel locks. Depending on the condition of your terminals, you might want to bring a wire brush. Hope this helps. Mike

 

[JFaughn]

Posted on other 1st .
The alt. is controled by the computor , and the computor use's the crank sensor to run a number of things including the alt. , maybe some could tell for sure but one small wire to alt. is wire for computor , and almost all functions/controls by comp. are grounds , if the comp. want to turn something off or on , it does it by grounding , the problum would be that if you grd. that circut the alt. will full field [ max ] witch is ok for short [ 15min ] but left for that long a trip could burn up the alt.
I wouldn't just put in a alt becouse it seems that its less comin than the sensors failing and a new alt will not run with out that signal to run.

 

[EKlem]

People have given some good suggestions here and I agree that it may be best to try to get the thing home to work on it. If someone is driving you to where your truck is, jump it off there car, then leave it hooked up for a while. This will charge your batteries so that the electronics in the fuel system will be able to run once the jump is disconnected. As long as you aren't running your lights, you should be able to go for a while. Just make sure you keep the other car close in case you need to stop and charge your truck up for a little while again. Good luck getting it fixed.

 

[Royk]

And now... The rest of the story.

I left home this morning and less than 2 miles from home I glanced down and noticed the check gauges light was on. I saw the voltmeter was reading zero, everything else was cool. Stupid me, I just chalked it up as a PCM glitch and kept on going, thinking next time I started the engine it would be gone (as has been the case with numerous vehicles showing "Check Engine", etc. ). I got at least 38 miles and my radio started cutting in and out. At first I thought it was my satellite receiver and then I saw the radio going on and off. I then realized I had a real problem. I turned off all nonessential electric (like the heater blower :{ ) and kept on going. I'm guessing 10-15 miles later the engine started sounding scary. I looked at the gauges and all were dead, the odometer, overhead computer, turn signals, power windows all were dead. I said to myself, "This must be what limp mode is. " I went the rest of the approximately 30 miles to my destination and parked. I went to my training class and enlisted a friend to jump my truck when we left. No go. We went to the Vehicle Maintenance Facility and I persuaded them to help me. They sent over an F250 HD gasser to give me a jump. We put a "starter pack" on one battery and jumped the other battery to the other truck. No go. Let it charge about 3 minutes and tried again: my truck started. We disconnected the batteries and my truck ran strong for a little bit, then started burping. Before I could get in and give it throttle, it quit. Jumped it again and as soon as jumpers were removed it died again. That is when I gave up and a coworker who was in the same class drove me home.



I grabbed my handy-dandy TDR Travellers Companion guide and called the closest number. He wasn't home, but he called me back once he got my message. I was about halfway home at this point and he too was on the road far from home, so there was nothing we could have done today. He is going to meet me at the truck tomorrow for a while with a codes reader and we will be looking at it.



I've since called my mechanic buddy for advice and I realized I did something really stupid (again). When I first jumped the truck and it started, I should have left the cables connected until the grid heater cycle was over and the engine was up to temp before removing the cables. I'm thinking perhaps the engine was too cold ( it was 28-30 degrees out) to sustain combustion. Here is my plan of action for tomorrow:



1. ) Drive down and hook up my wifes truck or TDR buddy's truck and charge batteries for 30-45 minutes.



2. ) Get truck started and let it warm to a decent temperature.



3. ) Drive towards home, with wifey following, and hope I make it.



4. ) If I crap out, throw two new batteries in.



5. ) Hope to make it home.



6. ) Troubleshoot and fix at home.



I started this message well over an hour ago, then my mechanic buddy called and I spoke to him for a long time, and now I'm just finishing the post. JFaughn's 7:29 post was the last I saw before I wrote this. So, if you've made suggestions similar to what I just wrote, it happened while I was in the process of writing this. Please don't think I haven't read your advice.



Roy



P. S. JFaughn, that is very interesting info. I never knew any of that. Of course, now that just makes my troubleshooting job even more complex! How much does one of those crank sensors go for?



TRAMPLINEMAN, Thanks for the tool sizes.

 

[woodsrat]

hope you get it home but to answer the crank sensor question. We and i use that term loosely mostly partsman put a crank sensor in a truck for a guy that was in over his head this weekend at a bomb party. He got the part at advanced auto for 36. 00 and said dodge wanted 47. 00 but couldnt have it for a couple days. That sensor is a PITA to get out. PM partsman and ask about his special puller if you do have to change it out, it worked pretty well after having a few choice words with the truck. LOL

 

[Royk]

Still somewhat dead, but home

Got down to the truck about 11:30 this morning. Started charging batteries with the wife's Toyota Sequoia. I had called Doug from TDR companion and he was on his way over. About 30 minutes into the charge, I see a CTD leaving the lot and looking over at me. He turned around and came back and offered to jump me off his '98. My truck started fine and we left them connected for about 5 minutes after starting to make sure grid heater wouldn't drag me down. He had to go, so I said thanks and let the truck continue to run while I waited for Doug. At this point voltmeter was reading about 11V and the ABS light was lit. Doug showed up about 20 minutes later and he hooked up a nice Snap-On MT2500 scanner. Amazingly, there were no codes set! Here was a truck reading low voltage and with an ABS light lit and no codes?! His reader actually showed no results whatsoever. For example, it showed 0 RPM even though the engine was running. We scratched our heads for about an hour and I said he might as well get going as I felt bad about calling him over to show no results. I think we basically came to the conclusion the ECM was toasted. As we packed up he mentioned it might not show a code until I started driving. In hindsight, I should have driven around the lot a few times because as soon as he left and I left, in less than a mile my voltage had dropped a lot. A half mile more and my voltmeter was at 0 again. This time I had all nonessential electric stuff turned off and the truck made it all the way home fine. I did make one boneheaded mistake on the way home. I stopped for diesel as I got close to home and told myself, "Don't turn off the engine". I filled up, pulled from the pump to where I had to pay and instinctively shut it down. I immediately realized what I did and it restarted thank goodness. I only mention this because after this quick shutdown, now the ABS light was out. When I got home and shut it down I cycled my key 3 times. I got a PCM code of 1682 and an ECM code of 1693. So far I don't know what these codes mean. I'll see if I can find them online. Then I tried to restart the truck and it was a lost cause. So that is where I stand now. I'm going to put my charger on it now and let it sit like that until I can get it into the dealer. I figure the ECM/PCM are covered under the 100K mile warranty and I'm only at 83K.



Roy

 

[JFaughn]

Just little up date , the 1682 low volts alt. , like ya didn't know that , 1693 companion code you have a problum , now tell me these computors are not stupid ,
Did some reading elswhere and 2001-2002 do not have a crank sensor , replaced by camshaft sensor , so its still down to finding way alt is not charging , the cam sensor also tells the injectors to fire , so its make enough for that , could be in wire from computor to alt bad , continuity test between either end and check for signal coming out of comp. , like said earlyer , if I had a wiring diagram to dobble check , full fielding the alt and see if it can charge ,

 

[K5IP]

It sounds like you have at least some kind of a handle on this. Before you go changing the alternator, you can verify that it should be working by measuring the voltage directly across the field winding. You might have to make a small pin hole in the field wires to get access to the wires for your meter leads.

If your measurement verifies that full battery voltage is present, the alternator should be charging, and all other signal input components are ok.

If the field voltage is nearly zero, then the alternator is probably ok but you have other problems. (computer, speed input to computer, ASD relay etc).

One more point, If you have full field voltage, and no charge, you might also check the large (50A I think) fuse located in the output line of the alternator.

(measure from the large terminal of the alternator to a + battery post, engine running, If zero, fuse is OK)

Rog

 

[Royk]

I was able to drop the truck at the stea... er, dealer last night and as of 1:20 pm today, they still don't know what is wrong. They held my truck hostage seven days to replace the lift pump, so I wonder what month I'll be getting it back from this problem.

 

[EBung]

This might be to little to late but did you check the 140amp alternater fuse under the hood? From the sounds of things that could be it.

 

[Royk]

Dealer called back at the 11th hour and said it is the alternator. Apparently the alternator is not covered under warranty and I said park it outside and I'll fix it myself (they wanted $500+ to fix it). Where should I go for a new alternator?



Roy

 

[JFaughn]

I use Napa for most stuff if they will keep from giving me anywere near retail , or do it your self , I'll go see if I can find the link for parts ,
Alternators
LarryB's Dodge starting problems solved here.

 

[GAmes]

I got my alternator at auto zone, about $135 if I remember right, with a lifetime warranty. Can't believe yours crapped out at 83k, mine lasted 400.

 

[Royk]

I forgot my buddy has an account with NAPA. He ordered me one to pick up on Monday. $179, with lifetime warranty I think.



Roy