Archived truck starts, but dies when put in gear

[scotty-u]

For a fellow farmer and Cummins owner. 1999 2500, 4x4, automatic, quad cab. She returned home from the first cow show of the year and shut the truck off to unload the cows at the farm. Went to move it and the truck died after she put it in gear. Tried again, same thing. Did not matter if it was R or D, it stalled. Trip home took about 1 hour, and nothing out of the ordinary happened. Fueled up last night at her usual station. Cannot remember the sequence to check for DTC's. Thanks from all of us.

 

[jclark5810]

Key on, off, on, off, on (stop there) will display any codes. Not sure what you're able to do for her but you could check to if the lift pump is working. Let us know if it pulls any codes and whatever details you can gather on the truck, like what's been done as far as aftermarket or replaced parts.

 

[scotty-u]

Will get codes tomorrow. Truck is stock as far as I know. Trans was replaced around 36 K ago with a reman unit from Chrysler. "Fuel pump" and injectors 5-6 years ago. Don't know if it was lift pump or injector pump.

 

[jclark5810]

I forgot you had said it dies when put into gear, I was thinking only when you started it up it dies. I suppose fuel may have something to do with it but I doubt it. I'm sure there'll be some good info tomorrow.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Is the engine idle good (what rpm is it idling at?). I would do a fuel pressure test.

 

[Sticks]

Aftermarket torque converter lockup?

 

[JR]

99s will not show the dtc with the key trick. Gonna have to get a scanner for that.

 

[bigblock_doc]

Locked up torque convertor?

 

[cerberusiam]

Based on the limited information, the TC sprag has failed internally. Neutral drops are NOT good but sometimes a little rpm and spin the tires will get it rolling. If you can get it rolling with some playing around and it shifts fine after that the TC is the likely culprit.

 

[JR]

Neutral drops are NOT good but sometimes a little rpm and spin the tires will get it rolling.

Preferrably on loose gravel not brush finished concrete :-laf

 

[SnoKing]

Take the parking brake off and foot off brake pedal making sure that nothing is you your path. See if truck tries to move when dropped in gear. That should tell you if it is a locked up TC. The 24V does not die easily. With the manuals you just let the clutch out in gear at idle and the ECM keeps the truck running with little drop in RPM.

Chris

 

[CM_Guest]

I tend to agree that it could be a locked up torque converter. But I also wonder about the possibility of starting safey circuit problem. I don't have any diagrams in front of me and I don't know the system. If it just dies "quietly" I'd think electrical problem. If it's more of a jerk or a bang when you drop it into gear then it's something mechanically stopping the engine. There's also the possibility that it's both and the torque converter lockup solenoid is stuck and as soon as you hit a gear the converter clutch is locking up or locked up already. Had Pontiac Grand Am long ago that was good for that. Long trips and coming down an offramp is when it liked to do it. Slow down to a stop and it would start bucking like crazy. Lockup solenoid fixed it. I don't know how the Dodge system works but theres and OD/OFF switch so there must be a solenoid controlling lockup clutch apply oil somewhere.

 

[SnoKing]

Starter safety circuit only disables the starter. It is not required to keep engine running. I used it to disable started with my after market keyless entry. On autos the plug for the clutch switch is still there and has a jumper in it.

Chris

 

[cerberusiam]

TCC will fail and stick partially on some times but that is usually seen as bang shifting becasue they don't release correctly once in use. The TCC and OD solenoids need to be energized to work and default to off with a failure. The VB mat fail but the solenoid will never fail in that way. If it fails to release when commanded the PCM\ECU will shut down the trans realy and go to limp mode.

There is nothing electrical that would kill the engine in any drive gear. If by chance any short happened that would be immediately noticeable by loss of dash gauges and likely smoke rolling from areas under the truck or hood.

The 24V engines are very easy to kill at an idle with a heavy load on the engine, even with a little throttle they will still kill out with too much load. The FPCM simply cannot react fast enough to a sudden load and the ECU is not smart enough to control idle like a CR. A CR engine will automatically increase fueling to maintain idle speed with a sudden load, all the way to the no wheel speed cut off of 2100 rpms. A 12V or 24V will just die if loaded hard and fast at an idle, not enough fueling controls to react fast enough. The stator clutches can seize hard to the point there is no stall in the TC and as soon as a gear engages the engine dies, or, they can partially fail in drag mode that will rpms way under the set point and try to drive thru the brakes.

The typical failure point is the TC internally with these types of symptoms.

 

[scotty-u]

Posted additional information yesterday afternoon, but now it's not here. Got the truck to move by revving the engine, but feels like the E-brake is on. Checked for codes with a code reader and found none. Towed home from show with OD on, and handled it fine ( as have done in the past towing light weight). Truck would lurch when first placed in gear, but then die, with no lugging of the engine. Fuel pump and injector pump replaced 5-6 years ago by Cummins in Harrisburg, PA.

 

[Sticks]

When you got home, that would have been a good time to go around and feel for any heat coming off the brakes, and differentials.

 

[cerberusiam]

The TC failure won't show any codes generally. What is happening once you get it rolling is it actually in drive which makes it feel like something is dragging, the lack of stall in the TC tends to make it a dog under 35 mph or so then it shifts and works fine above that.

 

[LPMorgan]

Replaced Torque Converter and problem was fixed

I had this problem. I could depress accelerator a little before shifting to D and it would move. It took some skill.
Replaced the Torque Converter and the problem was gone.

I tend to agree that it could be a locked up torque converter. But I also wonder about the possibility of starting safey circuit problem. I don't have any diagrams in front of me and I don't know the system. If it just dies "quietly" I'd think electrical problem. If it's more of a jerk or a bang when you drop it into gear then it's something mechanically stopping the engine. There's also the possibility that it's both and the torque converter lockup solenoid is stuck and as soon as you hit a gear the converter clutch is locking up or locked up already. Had Pontiac Grand Am long ago that was good for that. Long trips and coming down an offramp is when it liked to do it. Slow down to a stop and it would start bucking like crazy. Lockup solenoid fixed it. I don't know how the Dodge system works but theres and OD/OFF switch so there must be a solenoid controlling lockup clutch apply oil somewhere.