Truck & Trailer GVW tag v/s DOT

[NIsaacs]

I see this reference all the time, so I was just wondering if anyone has had a truck inspection where the DOT Officer actually looked at your GVW tags or tire capacity?



As a 40 year veteran of towing with 1/2 tons to class 8's, I have never encountered this.



Nick

 

[jelag]

I have several trucks all with DOT #'s on the side and they scale when required... based on the trailers they tow at the time... . In WA when over 16K, in OR when over 20K and in ID when over 26K.

More than once we've had an inspector looked at each axle and checked the tires... our largest custom trailer has (2) 12K axles... and we've pulled it with a 04 3500 dually with 19. 5" rubber... . that 04 truck now has 300K miles... so you take the truck at 8,500 and the trailer at lets say 18,500 and your at 27K lbs... so the driver is required to have a Class A with combination to drive this...

We also own a 3 axle truck rated at 56K and its been looked at a lot as the front axle is a 16K axle... . and we often have it over the standard 12K... we finally had to get a copy of the build sheet from Navstar, carry it in the cab with the cab card, and show the guys in the scale house and inspectors that the front end would support that weight...

For us, when its something custom, it draws out the guys... who look for things that might be wrong..... as an example we've stretched the frame on the Navstar mentioned above and their is a ratio about wheel base and overhand past the center of the last axle... this truck looks like its out of spec, but in fact its in spec by 4 1/2" so we've been told... but its been measured at least 10 or 12 times... over the years. .

It really seems your at the whim of the inspector and what he wants to look for... . or maybe its where he sees a lot of problems, don't really know for sure... .

And we've left one state where we were inspected, and 30 minutes later in a second state being red lighted for an inspection... the inspector in the second state, seeing the paper work that was less than an 1 hour old still said he had to do the inspection... ...

Hope this helps... . BTW - with a small truck, lets say a 3500 dually they seem to be more watchful than a tractor towing a 53 ft trailer at 80K lbs... like we're the little guy and we're going to try and cut corners and do something wrong... I always carried a copy of the regulations (about the size of a paperback book) and would read sections from time to time to pass the time during these inspections... . I'd make a point to pull the handbook out and walk away... . making sure the inspector saw what I was reading... .

 

[HBarlow]

I see this reference all the time, so I was just wondering if anyone has had a truck inspection where the DOT Officer actually looked at your GVW tags or tire capacity?

As a 40 year veteran of towing with 1/2 tons to class 8's, I have never encountered this.

Nick

Yes, I have.

The first and most memorable time it happened to me was very early in my experience hauling trailers commercially. I pulled into the WY Port of Entry at Cheyenne towing about a 32' conventional travel trailer. At the time I had an ordinary operator's license, not a CDL A.

As required I went inside and handed over my driver's license, logbook, and the trailer documentation. The inspector looked everything over then asked what I was towing. He grinned at my answer and asked me to walk outside.

He went direct to my truck, opened the driver's door, and read the GVWR sticker then walked back to the trailer and read the trailer's GVWR. The Dodge dually had a GVWR of 10,500 lbs. and the trailer was something like 10k IIRC. He mentally added them up and the numbers totalled less than 26k so I was okay.

He turned and started back toward the scale office and I asked him if he was adding the GVWRs and told him I knew better than to hook onto anything that would give me a combined weight greater than 26k. He said one of your fellow transport drivers didn't know that earlier today. He had put a driver out of service and made him leave the trailer at the scale and call his company to send a CDL driver to get it.

Later I hauled for a small outlaw transport company that didn't know or care about the rules. They repeatedly dispatched me with heavy fifth wheels that put my GCW at over 26k so I went home to TX and got a CDL Class A. As you know, then it didn't matter. I could pull anything I wanted as long as my registered weight covered it.

 

[GAmes]

I honestly do not believe a DOT officer will take a second look at a non-commercial pickup and trailer. I see overloaded pickups on the highway all the time and have never seen one get pulled over. Like Harvey, I have had a DOT guy at a roadside inspection check out my combination rating. If I was non-commercial, however, I wouldn't have gone through the scales. A few years ago I helped move my son's belongings from Boston to Seattle. Household goods in a large, tarped box, his jeep and motorcycle all mounted on a gooseneck, deckover flatbed. Because it was winter we drove the southern route so we went through more states than necessary. I didn't stop at any scales and was never challenged by any LEO.

 

[NIsaacs]

Looks like this is not a wide spread issue based on comments from three well known commercial truck drivers. I have been inspected numerous times for all types of rules and requirements but never the GAWR tag, GVWR tag or tire capacity so I was wondering. In the past 12 years I have not hauled commercial, only personal, so I am sure there are new issues the "Man" looks at that I am not aware of.



Nick

 

[Hoefler]

Insurance companies are looking at the specs when investigating an accident trying to figure out where to place the blame.

 

[Bigiron]

I have pulled my trailer(40' Gooseneck) pretty much all over the country. Loaded on race day weighs short of 15,000. Truck must weigh about 8,000. I've only been pulled over one time. It was Iowa and trailer was empty from moving my son and daughter to Florida. I've never pulled into a weigh station and he actually chased me down and pulled me over. Asked for license and insurance and told me to pull in at the stations Commercial or not or I could be fined up to 300. 00. Iowa law is 10,000 lbs and over loaded or empty. Same as Minnesota. Not a big deal due to the fact I have a Class A CDL. Good luck and Happy motoring.

 

[THoltz]

OK, I'm confused. Does having a Class A CDL exempt one from a max weight of >26K GCWR even if you are towing an RV trailer for one's personal use? And likewise, if I do not have a CDL, am I limited to 26K or less?



One last question, does anyone know if Arizona law provides for additional registration fees to tow heavier loads?



I did try to read the Arizona Revised Statutes concerning these topis, but I found it pretty confusing.

 

[Bob Cochran]

I will jump in here and I am sure if I blow it I will be corrected.

A Class A CDL allows you to tow with single vehicle or combination greater than 26,000 commercially. Now if I understand it correctly if you are driving a motor home that weighs over 26,000 for personal use you can do so with a Class C and I think this applies to LDT and trailer or 5th wheel. Now if you have a class 8 HDT you want to pull your trailer or 5th wheel it has to be registered commercial and will require Class A or B depending on weights irregardless if for personal use.



Remember we are talking about Arizona; other States differ on registration and licensing requirements.



I hope this helps and did not confuse more!!!

OK, I'm confused. Does having a Class A CDL exempt one from a max weight of >26K GCWR even if you are towing an RV trailer for one's personal use? And likewise, if I do not have a CDL, am I limited to 26K or less?



One last question, does anyone know if Arizona law provides for additional registration fees to tow heavier loads?



I did try to read the Arizona Revised Statutes concerning these topis, but I found it pretty confusing.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't have an RV so I am not familiar with weight regulations regarding them. However as a general rule you can register and pay for extra weight capacity.



Anytime you have a trailer that you want licensed for over 10,000 lbs you must pay for it on the truck. Say you have a truck and trailer registered for 10,000 lbs each, you can haul 20,000 lbs total as long as you don't go over the 10,000 lbs on each vehicle. If you have a trailer you want to license for 20,000 lbs for example you license it for 10,001 and license the truck for the excess. Your truck that was licensed for 10,000 lbs now must be licensed for 30,000 lbs. 10,000 lbs truck and 20,000 lbs trailer. This also allows you to adjust the total weight as long as you don't go over 30,000. Example, 12,000 truck and 18,000 trailer.



Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

Check with your State regulations pertaining to that 26K Non Commercial GCW, it will vary from State to State. I see medium duty trucks with huge RV's during the winter time in Parker AZ, from the snow birds migrations, and there is a "NOT FOR HIRE" tag on them indicating they are Non Commercial.

 

[THoltz]

Thanks for the replies. If/when we buy a trailer it will be a medium size so I will not be pushing the envelope anyhow.

 

[MFerraro]

I have been hauling in PA with a pick-up for 30+ yrs. Not for business, personal. My cargo is always in the truck, I have no trailer. I haul wood, coal, stone, machinery. Many times I am heavy. I have never had an actual DOT officer stop me but have had regular state police stop me to take a look. They have never looked at the tag on the truck, tires, anything mechanical. The ONLY thing they have ever looked at was the vehical regestration card. This card states the GVW that you have PAID for, which is not necessarily the GVW of the vehicle. (Example: truck is rated 10,000# from factory, but you don't want to pay high cost of 10,000# plate. You purchase plates for 7500#)The state will allow you to plate the truck for less than it is rated for, but not more. You can get it rated for more but it requires paperwork & inspection. Let me tell you, the officers I encountered did NOT care what the truck was rated for. They went strictly by the GVW shown on the vehicle regestration. As a rule they generaly don't seem to get to excited unless the truck appears to be obviously overloaded. If the GVW on the registration card looks high enough to match what he sees they seem ok about it. PA also gives you a wght sticker to affix to your windshield along side your inspection sticker. At a glance an officer can get a pretty close idea of what the truck is plated for. They have definately been cracking down on the combination rigs the last few years. They have found this to be easy pickings as many people don't understand the concept of combined gross wght.

 

[HBarlow]

OK, I'm confused. Does having a Class A CDL exempt one from a max weight of >26K GCWR even if you are towing an RV trailer for one's personal use? And likewise, if I do not have a CDL, am I limited to 26K or less?

One last question, does anyone know if Arizona law provides for additional registration fees to tow heavier loads?

I did try to read the Arizona Revised Statutes concerning these topis, but I found it pretty confusing.

I missed this thread earlier.

The laws and regulations are confusing because they primarily address commercial use which includes not only hauling trailers for compensation but also the trailer owner who uses his combination truck and trailer for business use such as a landscaper who hauls his backhoe on a trailer. I am not going to write about heavy single vehicles such as box trucks and motorhomes here, just Dodge Rams with trailers.

Private use RVs are generally exempt but several states including TX now require a Class A operator's license for towing heavy RVs exceeding gross combined weights of 26k.

Other things that make it confusing are the fact that some states allow some folks towing heavy trailers to drive past their scales, others enforce primarily registration with a focus on taxes paid often ignoring other factors, and other states have additional or different regulations they enforce on their own state motorists but which they cannot enforce on interstate drivers. Some states post signs requiring all vehicles with trailers to stop at scales, some of them post the signs but do not enforce them. KA posts the signs but will come out and yell at you if you stop on their scales with an RV, some require you to stop if the trailer exceeds certain weights, some require you to stop if the combination weighs more than certain limits, and so forth. And all of them will tell you it is your responsibility to know what they meant or what they want.

DOT regulations state that anyone hauling a trailer weighing more than 10k and with a combined weight of truck and trailer exceeding 26k must have a CDL A. This means you can haul a trailer weighing up to 15k with a truck weighing up to 10k for a total weight of 26k (but not one pound over) with an ordinary driver's license if your home state allows it. Note that DOT considers actual scale weight AND potential or rated weight obtained from the GVWR tags on truck and trailer, if either exceeds 26k, and IF the driver does not have a CDL A. If the driver has a CDL A he can haul almost any weight.

There are more confusing elements to the rules as well.

 

[jhenderson]

Harvey, GO back to you're DOT manual. A trailer over 10,000lbs , towed by a truck UNDER 26,000 requires a class B CDL. A truck over 26,000, towing 10,000 plus requires a class A. It's GVW not CGVW. Big difference! If you could get a class A lic. with a one ton and a heavy trailer, everyone I know would have one. please check your facts before you expound.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, GO back to you're DOT manual. A trailer over 10,000lbs , towed by a truck UNDER 26,000 requires a class B CDL. A truck over 26,000, towing 10,000 plus requires a class A. It's GVW not CGVW. Big difference! If you could get a class A lic. with a one ton and a heavy trailer, everyone I know would have one. please check your facts before you expound.

Nice try but you don't know what you're talking about.

This is a cut and paste from the Federal Motor Carrier Regulations:

"Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U. S. C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73. "

A class A cdl is required, as I said, for pick-up/trailer combination vehicles where the trailer weighs or is rated to weigh 10k lbs. and the combined weight is over 26k.

You have some confused misunderstanding about a class B license which is for heavy single vehicles such as box trucks or passenger buses weighing more than 26k or when that heavy single vehicle is towing a trailer weighing less than 10k. A class B license is NOT for combination vehicles as described in my paragraph above.

Until recently when I became certain I was not ever going to tow commercially again and voluntaraily surrendered it, I had a CDL A license which I obtained with a pickup truck. I drove my '06 DODGE RAM 3500 AND TOWED A BORROWED GOOSENECK FLATBED TANDEM AXLE DUAL WHEEL TRAILER TO OBTAIN A CLASS A CDL. All that was required was an ordinary dually and a trailer with a GVWR of 20k. The combination was well in excess of 26k although actual scale weight the day I took my driving test was probably not more than 18k to 20k.

YOU should try to get a clue what you are talking about before you correct me.

Doubt me? Look it up yourself in the Federal Motor Carrier Regulations.

 

[jhenderson]

Harvey, I stand corrected. When I asked a commercial enforcement officer this question he laughed at me. I will make my appointment at the RMV. this week. Thanks.

 

[HBarlow]

You're welcome. Good luck on your testing.

It will work for you as well as it did me. I guess the reason it is possible to get a CDL with a light truck pulling a borrowed heavy trailer like the one I borrowed is because if the truck and trailer have a combined gross weight or weight rating in excess of 26k and is being used for a commercial purpose, a CDL A is required for that rig so they have to test you and license you in that rig.

The only limitation is I couldn't get an air brake endorsement. I passed the written air brake endorsement test with a good grade simply by reading the handbook but I didn't know anyone who would loan or rent me a truck with air brakes for the test. It might be possible to rent a box truck with air brakes from someone like Ryder for a half day to get the air brake endorsement if you really want it. I found that when I showed a CDL A few ever noticed that I didn't have the air brake endorsement.

The amazing thing is once you get the CDL A with a light truck like our Rams, if you can find a way to get the air brake endorsement also, you are legal to drive a ten wheel OTR tractor without ever setting foot inside one.

 

[jhenderson]

I already have an air brake endorsement, along with a class B. All I need is a one ton to hook to my 15,400lb dump trailer,to put me over 26,000 for my class A. It was my last encounter with commercial enforcement that led me to believe a class A was only necessary for a tow vehicle over 26,000lb. I should know better than to trust someone who makes a living picking pockets. I also know that statement will anger some, but writing a $125. 00 ticket for an empty windshield washer reservoir ( personal knowledge) is highway robbery.

 

[MChildress]

I had always believed you had to be carrying the weight commercially. For instance having #26,000 loaded for pay. We were building a barn on our family farm last year and had the metal delivered. We needed three more 8" 14 ga by 24' C channels and one more 4X4 X24 10 ga stick of square tube. I am guessing but would say not more than 300 lbs of material. Had a friend that was helping who volunteered to pick up the metal. His father sales trailers and he borrowed a 24' GN 14,000 gvw two axle single wheels and was pulling it with his Dodge dually. DPS (DOT) stopped him and wrote him a ticket for no CDL. He told me the trooper told him if he was pulling the trailer with a 3/4 ton he would not need a CDL but since he was pulling it with a dually the CDL was needed. Guess maybe everybody needs to go ahead and get a CDL just to be on the save side.