Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Trying to Remove VP44 - Question?

[billmac1]

I'm trying to separate the vp44 shaft from the gear housing. My question is how do you know when it's done? I cranked on it awhile using a Blue Chip gear puller and decided to stop because I haven't heard a pop or anything to indicate that it's free. Someone I know at a diesel shop that works on the CTD told me that when the gear comes loose from the pump shaft, the gear puller should be loose and not tight any more. . I'm beginning to wonder about that bit of advice. I cranked on the puller that I have untill I began to worry about breaking a bolt or dislodging the timing case, so I quit. I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[BDaugherty]

Back it off and make sure the puller bolts and forcing bolt are set right. Then crank it down. Don't be scared. If you've taken the nut off the VP shaft, then the puller WILL break the gear loose. It may rattle your nerves a little, but you won't hurt anything as long as your puller bolts are fully seated.

 

[Fishin Guide]

I have made my own puller for use int eh shop to work with air tools, but a simple steering wheel puller will also get the job done. Make sure you are using good bolts for the pump gear as well. I have seen a few broken off in gears.



Dave

 

[billmac1]

I have made my own puller for use int eh shop to work with air tools, but a simple steering wheel puller will also get the job done. Make sure you are using good bolts for the pump gear as well. I have seen a few broken off in gears.



Dave

As I indicated in my original post, I'm using the Blue Chip gear puller.

 

[billmac1]

Back it off and make sure the puller bolts and forcing bolt are set right. Then crank it down. Don't be scared. If you've taken the nut off the VP shaft, then the puller WILL break the gear loose. It may rattle your nerves a little, but you won't hurt anything as long as your puller bolts are fully seated.

I torqued my gear puller bolts all the way down to the where the last two threads were showing. The gear is actually only about a quarter of an inch from the housing cover. I gave up and removed the puller. I can't see the first two or three threads on the the pump shaft so it looks like the gear housing has moved. Anyway I have just about decided to go ahead and remove the pump and hope for the best.



BTW - I followed the pump removal directions in my Chrysler service manual. They said to remove the nut and washer; attach a gear puller and pop the gear loose - don't pull to far or you might damage the gear housing; remove the two bolts on the pump support bracket and finally remove the four bolts holding the pump on. Then remove the pump. That's what I was trying to do.

 

[Fishin Guide]

As I indicated in my original post, I'm using the Blue Chip gear puller.

I understand and read that. What I am trying to say is that I have seen bolts break off with these types of pullers.



As the bolt is tightened, they can bind and twist. This allows them to stretch or break. And that will not pull off the gear.



We use a puller similar to what you have, but we have a hardened fine thread puller bolt in the center. This allows the two bolts to be fully threaded in and the puller bolt presses off the gear. No broken bolts and works with air tools.



Dave

 

[billmac1]

I understand and read that. What I am trying to say is that I have seen bolts break off with these types of pullers.



As the bolt is tightened, they can bind and twist. This allows them to stretch or break. And that will not pull off the gear.



We use a puller similar to what you have, but we have a hardened fine thread puller bolt in the center. This allows the two bolts to be fully threaded in and the puller bolt presses off the gear. No broken bolts and works with air tools.



Dave

Sorry Dave, I'm just a bit frustrated right now. I paid enough for the Blue Chip puller but now it looks like I need something else. I did read a thread on this website whereby member SHobbs had to use a small torch and heat the gear to make it come loose. Maybe that's what I need to do or I guess go buy another gear puller, one with a bolt in the center as well as the two other bolts. One thing that I need to mention is that the gear is about a 1/4 of an inch from the timing cover so I don't have much room to work with.



I'm wondering if I go ahead and remove the bolts holding the pump to the pump cover if that will allow the pump to pop loose from the gear. Would that be a no no?

 

[BILLVO]

Back to the basics here

I hope you are not trying to use the 2 bolts that go into the gear as pusher bolts against the gear case as it is what it sounds like if you are concerned about damaging the housing. If you are doing it correctly there will be no contact with any cover or housing. You just need to thread them in to an equal distance and tighten the center "Pusher" bolt against the pump shaft as that is the one doing the work.



It is a tapered shaft and not straight as you are obviously thinking being concerned with the 1/4 in space between the cover and gear. It only needs to move about 1/32 of an inch to pop the taper loose that holds the gear on and be careful there is a key in the pump that can fall out.

 

[B.G. Smith]

I have a puller like this I can lend you if you wish? bg Puller with 5-1/2" screw

 

[grimesja]

Are the mounting bolts and nuts removed? I left the two bolts in lower mount one time. I bent the mount and the pully did not appear to come off, but it actually was. Just my thoughts because I have made the mistake.

 

[DFerverda]

The 2 1/2 inch bolts on the lower mount need to be out,as well as the 2 nuts holding the pump to the case. If you try to use the pump puller/press before you remove these bolts, you could damage the housing.
I was not sure if you had them out, just making sure you are aware.
Dirk

 

[Fishin Guide]

The pump gear will break from the taper without loosening a bolt on the VP44.



All that is required is removal of the nut and washer on the snout of the VP44. Once the gear is loose, it will pull back towards the cover and you can usually wiggle the gear a bit. If it moves, the pump is ready to be removed.



If the gear has not moved back off the shaft, it's most likely that the bolts used to pop the gear loose have stretched. Never use heat, I have yet to encounter a single case where it's use is required.



Again, go out and rent or buy a simple 2 ear steering wheel puller. Get 2 longer bolts and a couple of thick or hardened washers. Thread the bolts in an equal distance and seat the center bolt by hand. Adjust the 2 side bolts to get the puller straight. I sometimes have to use a breaker bar to get the leverage on the puller to pop is loose, some come loose very easily.



Once the gear comes loose, I leave the puller on it. This acts as a handle when I reinstall the new pump.



Dave

 

[billmac1]

I thought that I would resurrect this thread and let everyone know what happened. Yeah, I finally got the pump out. One big problem - I pulled the timing case too far and popped two puckers in the timing cover. One was at the top and one along the drivers side. I didn't find this until I had taken the truck for a test run. Obviously there was an accumulation of oil on the front of the motor- up high as well was underneath. At first I thought perhaps the "o" ring on the VP44 shaft was leaking but then I discovered the timing cover. The truck runs great. I had cleared the P0216 code prior to the install. I re-checked for codes after I drove it and there were none. I assume that my VP44 install is good to go.



Anyway, I decided that I would replace the timing cover myself. I went to Cummins Southern Plaines here in Fort Worth, bought a new cover which came with a crank seal already installed. Problem was it didn't have the seal pilot/installer with it. I bought a seal kit, p/n 3804899 just so that I could get the seal pilot/installer piece. I din't mind too much spending the extra $40 so that I could have an extra seal in case I messed up the first one during the install.



Due to the cold, rainey weather here as of late, I didn't start on the project until Sunday afternoon. Using the TST instructions for their KDP kit, I finally got the fan/hub assembly out yesterday. I had wanted to remove the nut on the viscous fan drive but I couldn't budge it despite reading many threads on how to get it loose. I finally gave up and took the whole thing out. After this was done, I was looking at the timing cover when I noticed a partial half moon shaped groove worn into the cover. One end of the groove is deeper, maybe 1/24 to 1/16 of an inch. See my other thread on this problem and what could have caused it.



Anyway, bottom line, I've about had it with this project. I'm going to call a local shop the has a certified Cummins diesel mechanic and have my truck towed over to his shop. I called the guy yesterday afternoon and explained my situation and he said to bring it over as is. Their labor rate is $89 per hour. The only thing he said that bothered me was that it would probably take one day to do the cover r&r and put everything back together. That seems a little long to me. I'm sure that the Cummins place could do it quicker but the problem with them is sometimes they are so busy you have to leave your truck there and they will get to it when they can. I found this out when I called them last week.

 

[sheamc]

First and foremost---I feel your pain:{ I have replaced EVERYTHING that puts fuel and air in the engine and gets it out. The only outsourcing has been the transmission. Think about it this way, at $600-$700 in labor you could rent a car, purchase all the correct tools, gain experience, and have great stories to tell here on the pages. Maybe even have some left over for the counseling afterwards Really, after getting this far and already having the parts and manuals, try to do it. The experience is worth it in the long term.



Shea

 

[billmac1]

First and foremost---I feel your pain:{ I have replaced EVERYTHING that puts fuel and air in the engine and gets it out. The only outsourcing has been the transmission. Think about it this way, at $600-$700 in labor you could rent a car, purchase all the correct tools, gain experience, and have great stories to tell here on the pages. Maybe even have some left over for the counseling afterwards Really, after getting this far and already having the parts and manuals, try to do it. The experience is worth it in the long term.



Shea

The problem is that I'm 63 and not as agile or strong as I used to be. I thought that I was going to have a heart attack yesterday trying to drag the fan assembly and radiator shroud out from the truck. :{ All that is left to remove is the crankshaft damper which is sitting about 6 inches above one of the truck's transmission cooler lines. I don't know how much the thing weighs, but trying to remove the four bolts with one hand and hold it with the other is not something I want to attempt. The way my luck is going, I would drop it right on the transmission cooler line and then have some more expense and misery.



I'm already renting a car - have been for a week and a half. I'm already out several hundred dollars on that. I figure I might as well bite the bullet and pay $500-$600 in labor to get the job done once and for all. The only thing that bothers me about this is that I will have to have the truck towed to the repair shop. The truck is in my garage which is down hill from the street - about a 15° to 20° slope. The wrecker will have to back into the driveway; hook up a tow chain and pull the truck from the garage up the hill to across the street where it's flat. Then the driver can pull the truck up onto the flat bed.



Yeah, I'm sure that I will need several sessions of therapy when this ordeal is over.

 

[Rattler]

I pulled my pump sunday afternoon. Everything went pretty easy. It took longer to get everything pulled off to access the pump than to pull it. About 11/2 hours to get to the pump, 30 minutes to finish pulling the pump. My new pump should be here tomorrow. I hope to fire it back up tomorrow night. Randy