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TST #10 plate, 215 hp, at high altitude?

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A friend of mine with a '97 215 hp 5 spd 2500 4x4, club cab long box w/3. 54's is interested in installing a TST cam plate. He's looking at the #11 and #10 plates. The truck is basically stock, and has 255/85R16s, and pyro and boost gauge. The question is, what will need to be done with this truck to keep EGTs in check? Will a 4" exhaust and (possibly) an aftermarket air filter be enough? The truck is used as a daily driver in Denver, and will be used to ocasionally tow a 7000 lb. trailer.

Also, how big of a concern is the clutch? He plans on adding other performance items at a later date, but would rather do so over time as funds become available.

Thanks,

Pete
 
This is the same truck as mine. With open exhaust and a Psycotty air filter system, I was always running on the ragged edge of EGTs running a #11 pushed forward and a stock turbo. I then put a 16 CM2 housing on and this did drop EGTs alot, but now the clutch slips. This isn't a stock clutch I have a Luk Pro Gold.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*
 
He'll be able to "over EGT" with the #11 plate, even with the exhaust. He'll have to do the turbo housing and/or Scottys air cleaner housing to keep it down. If he's like the rest of us, he'll be upgrading plates & therefore contributing to Mark's retirement #ad
or he can just go straight to the #10& make Mark wait a little longer. #ad


Mine is in the mail. #ad
Mark has got the crack & we're the rats. #ad
#ad


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Money Sink - 96, 5 speed, HX40-16, TST #11/280 slid 3/4 way, 300 HP Injectors, 4200 rpm Governor spring kit.
4" CAT back & CATless, 4" chrome turn down straight out back.
ISSPRO Pillar, Delvac 1 & Amsiol, RE-0880, Mag-Hytec, 3:54, 235s on Alcoas, Rancho 9000's, Valentine One.
 
Here are a few of my personal thoughts and experiences on this subject. #ad


The #11 plate will work fine for towing with your friend's truck, however the #10 plate provides too much fueling for continuous pulling. I have run both the 10, 11 and a couple other oddball plates and prefer the #11 overall. The mistake that most people make is installing the plate too far forward from the stock position. I set the position of my plates in the pump to provide no more than 1300 degrees under very hard continuous pulls with a load in tow. The plate's position may be set back from the stock setting depending on what injectors and turbo I have on at that time.

The most likely cause of high Egts besides improper plate position is a plugged converter. I have the same truck as your friend and experienced a plugging converter at only 60,000 miles (as have many others on this board). The most cost-effective improvement to lower egts would to be install a 16cm turbo exhaust housing (<$200) and a free flowing cat. You can come to your own conclusions on how to make the cat flow more.

One down side to the 16cm housing is the reduced low-end response when running the stock 215 injectors. This can be easily overcome by increasing your fuel at low boost conditions, but will also increase your smoke. This comes down to a personal preference about what you like seeing in your rear view mirror.

Once you have installed the plate and exhaust housing and have corrected the converter, you can then look at a K&N filter or equivalent. I have run the K&N from the beginning and have never been able to pull the vacuum gauge down on the filter housing (I have pulled 50# of boost with an 18. 5 HX40 playing around)

The four inch exhaust isn’t really needed with this set-up but will provide an improvement if used. I wouldn’t recommend going to the 4” until you plan on adding more power (such as injectors) to the truck.

I have run the same set-up as described here and have encountered no problem with the stock clutch. However this is the limit for the stocker. I went to a Centerforce at the time of making modifications as it was the only proven and available clutch on the market. There have been a few very good high HP capacity clutches to hit the market since then. I will attest that I have punished my Centerforce severely and it is still holding up. The clutch only holds up to the mid 300 hp range; after that you need to talk to Joe D. He has a very good article in TDR # 30 issue on clutches. One benefit to the Centerforce clutch is the low cost ($479 with throw-out bearing) and smooth stock-like operation.

All these suggestions are based on a sound running in-tune truck from the start. As with any other project, you need to have a good foundation to build upon.

I am presently running my truck this week as follows: “Max” egts are 1350, towing in the mountains, (I have to work very hard to get there) with minimal smoke.

97 SLT, 5spd. 3:55, 255/85/16, BD 370 injectors, BD #11, 16cm Hx35, BD exhaust brake, BD 4” exhaust, Centerforce, US gear under drive, Rancho 9000.

Who knows what I’ll have under the hood next week. #ad


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97 SLT 2500, 5sp, 3:54, 285/16, US Gear Under-drive, BD Hx40-16cm, BD 370 injectors, TST #10 plate, BD full 4" exhaust, Centerforce Clutch, BD Governor Kit, and a few other items... with a lot more on the shelf!

[This message has been edited by DBR (edited 11-22-2000). ]

[This message has been edited by DBR (edited 11-24-2000). ]
 
The engine is turbocharged, therefore it makes its own air and unlike a naturally aspirated engine, altitude has no effect on it.

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Chris Timochko
1997 5sp 4X4, HX40, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, Custom Tuned Injection Pump, 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, 6" Chrome Exhaust System, No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s. Test mule for Auto Wurks Diesel race program
 
DieselB59, I would have to disagree a little with your statement. Altitude does have an effect on a turbocharged engine, granted far less than a normally aspirated engine. The 5. 9 is a normally aspirated engine until boost is created by the turbo. Until that boost is created, the 5. 9 experiences the same effects a normally aspirated engine would at high altitude. The turbo at higher altitudes is less efficient at generating boost, due to the atmosphere being less dense. Some of the effects are more turbo lag and smoke, until boost is built.
 
Chris, I notice a big change in EGT and boost in Vegas over up here(5000 feet). I was getting 4 more PSI in Vegas and 100-125 deg lower EGT for the same cruise speed and also my EGT cooled down alot faster when I came to a stop. Even a turbo isw effected by altitude, not counting the denser air cooling the intercooler faster. Come out west here and we'll show you some altitude.

[This message has been edited by drawson (edited 11-23-2000). ]
 
I think the #11 is ideal in the 215hp. Mine is centered and I don't have to worry about egt until WOT. Minimal smoke when shifting!

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97 3/4Ton, 2WD, 5SP, #11 Plate, 14 Housing, AF942M Air filter, Gutted Cat, 4"From Turbo, Airlift, Shortened Frame, Custom Bed, HEY FORDBOY POWERSTROKE THIS!
 
DBR, is your BD #10 plate comparable to TST's #10?

It looks as if my friend is leaning toward the #10 plate, and controlling EGTs via his left foot until the neccesarty airflow improvements are made.

Pete

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'97 2500 CC 4X4 5spd Sport
'83 K5 Blazer 350 TBI (ex 6. 2), 39. 5 TSLs, 3" lift, Dana 60/GM 14 blt, Detroits
 
Yes, they are the same. I would not recommend the #10 (330hp) plate; go to the #11 (280 hp) plate. Just have your buddy set the plate’s position by egt. By moving the plate back, you will reduce power and egt. My thinking is, what good is power if the egts are too high? I like to have my truck set up idiot proof, mostly because I’m the idiot driving it. Be sure to have the cat checked before installing the plate. This way you will not have to deal with any warranty issue (if the truck is still under emission warranty). I would most certainly do some type of work to the cat before or during the installation of the #11 plate. Good luck. #ad
 
I totally agree with DBR. The #11 will provide what you are looking for. Just remember more power equals alot of additional stress at several points in the drive train. Good Luck on the "Bombing"... You WILL be HOOKED on the Power once the routine starts... .

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1997 3500 SLT, Ext cab, 5spd, TST #11, GV Aux Trans, BD exhaust, Kelderman Air Ride, 60 Gallon fuel tank, Clifford Security, Reese 20k 4way 5th wheel hitch, Boost/EGT gauges, K&N air filter, Rancho RS9000 shocks, Brush Guard, DZee full length running boards.
 
The TST #11 plate is a good all around plate, great for towing! I live at 6000' and frequently tow at and way above this altitude. The only time the egt's get to hot are at rpm's above 2600-2700 at wide open throttle. The #11 plate gave my truck a noticable improvement in low end power, not to mention the fantastic mid range increase #ad

edit-the #11 plate is in the stock (not slid) position.


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1997 2500 Ext Cab 4X4,5 spd,3. 54's,Pac brake,Rancho 9000's,Centerforce clutch,K&N airfilter,Missing Cat,Isspro gauges,and #11plate(280hp/680tq)AFC medium spring

[This message has been edited by Rebel (edited 11-27-2000). ]
 
Guys, I've driven the NJ to Vegas trip twice and maybe its just because the truck makes so much more power, I couldn't notice a difference. Back in the sixties, diesels were run naturally aspirated and the high altitude mountain runs out west made most of the trucks decelerate to about 2mph. Supercharging was introduced and the effect vanished. Either way 4lbs of boost and 125 degrees egt difference are really minimal when it applies to my case. Take that same difference and apply it to a mild to stock truck and the difference is definitely more noticeable. Even at idle, these trucks do not run as naturally aspirated vehicles do, because at idle there is significant pressure coming from the turbo. Pull off an intercooler hose and start it up and idle it to see, there is definitely pressure. It won't show as boost on a gauge, because the engine is not under a load. Turbo lag is really not much of a problem with these diesels in comparison to a gas turbo where you have to maintain a stoichiometric ratio throughout a boost curve, while advancing timing as a function of boost.

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Chris Timochko
1997 5sp 4X4, HX40, BD 4" Brake, Marine Compression, Custom Tuned Injection Pump, 370B Injection Nozzles, Delivery Valves, Governor & AFC Spring Kit, Psychotty Air, Water Injection, NOS Diesel Kit, 6" Chrome Exhaust System, No Smoke Valet Switch, McLeod Dual Disc Clutch, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins Chrome Kit, Optima Red Tops, Hadley Bully Horns, Hurst Line Loc, Goodyear Wrangler AT/S 305/70/16s. Test mule for Auto Wurks Diesel race program
 
DieselB59:

I would agree that you most likely didn’t notice a difference in the mountain passes, not so much due to your truck's overall power, but more likely due to it being unloaded and not having to use that power. Add 10,000 lbs of trailer weight at an elevation of 8500 and I will assure you that you will notice a definite difference.

I have also observed the airflow while idling my truck as you stated with the 12, 14, and 16cm HX35 turbos, as well as the 16 and 18. 5cm HX40 turbos. I will agree that there is a flow from the turbo outlet but there is also a significant vacuum at the intake manifold. I will agree that the engine is getting supplied air unlike a true naturally aspired engine, but still disagree that the engine is under a boost condition at idle, especially with a HX40. The efficiency of a turbo to build boost quickly at low rpm levels will most certainly offset the turbo lag at any elevation. That is why I said the effect of elevation is minimal but still an effect.

I still stand by my original statement that the turbo at higher altitudes is less efficient at generating boost, due to the atmosphere being less dense. Some of the effects are more turbo lag and smoke, until boost is built. That is why going to the 16cm housing will require more fuelling to maintain the same response as the 12cm and will result in more exhaust smoke, which is compounded by the increased elevation. The difference being that the 12cm housing is more efficient than the 16cm at creating low-end spool up.

I’m sure this is going to open another can of worms that we can argue for hours. However, I feel that there is a significant difference in a truck that is set up for ¼ mile runs compared to a truck set up to pull heavy loads up steep grades at high elevation while staying under 1350 egts and not smoking like a freight train.

This is by no means meant with any disrespect. I realize that my truck, as low powered as it is, does not stand a chance in the quarter against yours. On the other hand, your truck wouldn’t stand up too well to mine on a 6% grade at high elevation pulling 5 tons for several miles or so. The simple fact is that our trucks are being asked to do different tasks and therefore are set up accordingly. #ad



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97 SLT 2500, 5sp, 3:54, 255/85/16, US Gear Under-drive, BD Hx40-16cm, BD 370 injectors, TST #10 plate, BD full 4" exhaust, Centerforce Clutch, BD Governor Kit, Rancho 9000's and a few other items with a lot more on the shelves!

[This message has been edited by DBR (edited 11-28-2000). ]
 
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