TST + MP8 Stack

[turbo lcc]

A friend of mine has a stock truck except TST + MP8 stack and is wondering if the injector rattle he is hearing is normal or if he needs to get a fuel system ASAP.

 

[turbo lcc]

anyone????

 

[SRadke]

Rattle is normal with the pressure boxes. You can't burn enough fuel on a stock turbo to outdo the fuel system unless your temps are through the roof. FWIW my best dyno with that stack was with the pressure box on about 1/3.



-Scott

 

[JStieger]

I just removed my MP8 this morning because the rattle was driving me nuts. I noticed too after removing it that I had more (+1,000 to +2,000 psi) rail pressure off-the-line than I had with the MP8.



With injectors (same or more fuel in shorter period of time) plus TST timing advance plus fuel pressure I felt I was getting the injection so far advanced. It's almost as if it bogs the motor down off idle! I think with the TST and MP8 the ECM is just going crazy with all the manipulated signals.

 

[turbo lcc]

did you have the TST tune in your MP-8?

 

[JStieger]

did you have the TST tune in your MP-8?

Nope... waiting on hearing back from someone getting this done as well as from TS. TS also said that they were working on a program specifically for nitrous and 100 HP injectors to counter the advanced injection timing. MP8 with TST disconnected runs fine; it's just the combination. I'm in no hurry as it's nice to just drive and enjoy my truck without fuel systems blowing up for a while!

 

[JCleary]

Nope... waiting on hearing back from someone getting this done as well as from TS. TS also said that they were working on a program specifically for nitrous and 100 HP injectors to counter the advanced injection timing. MP8 with TST disconnected runs fine; it's just the combination. I'm in no hurry as it's nice to just drive and enjoy my truck without fuel systems blowing up for a while!

I just had the TST flash installed on my MP-8/Ramifier to go along with my TST Twins program.



I put the BDDL to stock for now. Initial impression on the way home today was that I really like it.



The Ramifier is plugged into the MAP and rail, and the TST is plugged into the Ramifier. Interesting stuff going on there. The Ramifier is doing some cool boost fooling for sure. Previously I had the TST first, then the Ramifier. I now understand that the Ramifier needs to see the MAP signal to work properly with the TST. This is how they fine-tuned the TST program.



The Ramifier feels a little softer overall, but with a strong bottom end. I think the best part (so far, I've only logged about 5 fully warmed up miles on it) is that it has the bottom end of the BDDL but without all the smoke. There's a time and a place for BIG black clouds, but here in the SF Bay Area you have to be careful. I'd much rather have good bottom end performance without the billowing clouds I've been spewing. I can't wait to do some more "testing" tomorrow. I'll be sure to report back.



I would much rather run a box than a downloader. I imagine I'm driving on borrowed time loading and unloading flashes from the ecm.



I'll take the long way home tomorrow and give y'all an update

 

[JStieger]

JCleary-



Thanks for the PM and update! It's interesting about the order of stacking because when I first got the MP8 I PM'd about 10 people that stacked it and it was about 50/50 on the order. Some tried it both ways and got the same seat-of-pants results either way. Some said it didn't matter which way it was hooked up - the rattly sound was still there.



Myself, I had the TST first into the MAP followed by the MP8 like you. My reasoning was that I didn't want more than 22 psi or so (wherever the TST clamps the boost signal at) going to the Ramifier to save on the fuel pressure bombing my rail at high rpms.



Now I have to wait and see what Dennis comes up with for the other tune for injectors.



In the meantime, looking forward to some more updates!

 

[JCleary]

I think the Ramifier needs to see the MAP signal and fool the TST. A couple of times the TST said 10psi and my gauge said 5psi, but it was kind of hard to tell exactly what they're doing as they're not right next to each other. Bottom line is I think it gets the TST to fuel earlier, and whatever it's doing, it seems like a smooth transition.



On edit:



I asked Dennis what the TST flash does for the programming.



He said it brought the rail pressure down a bit, and the boost fooling is also brought down to work better with the TST. Whatever it does, it works.

 

[BIG BOB]

without fuel systems blowing up for a while!

Could you elaborate on this? You can PM me if you wish, don't mean to Hi-jack this tread.



Thanks, Bob

 

[BIG BOB]

Anyone tried a MP8 with the first original TST for the 03-04's? I know the original TST's fueled alot harder on the bottom and was just wondering about how the combination of the 2 would work.



How close is the original TST programing to the Twin programing? Anyone know?

 

[turbo lcc]

Could you elaborate on this? You can PM me if you wish, don't mean to Hi-jack this tread.



Thanks, Bob

Kinda wondering about that one myself

 

[JCleary]

Kinda wondering about that one myself

I believe he had a rail leak at one point, but only at idle or something weird. Had to pay Cummins to find the problem. I could be wrong, but I think it was him.



I have the MP-8 stacked with the early twins flash. It begins fueling at 4psi and ramps to full fueling at 12psi. The MP-8 definitely makes a difference in pedal response off-boost.

 

[JStieger]

Could you elaborate on this? You can PM me if you wish, don't mean to Hi-jack this tread.



Thanks, Bob

Bob et al. -



No secret as to what happened. I just blew up the "seal" on my pressure relief valve and it WAS NOT from when I was running the MP8. When the valve blew it made a huge mess everywhere (1/4 tank in 3 miles all over my engine compartment, truck, and road). At idle with the banjo removed it was a mini-geyser; when the rpm were increased it shot up pretty good. Confirmed that I have a healthy CP3. After I replaced the rail valve, I had another leak on a #1 injector line along with more diesel wasted on the road. Torque specs are really important on these 3rd gen high pressure lines!



As to the cause, I first ran BOMbed with a BDDL stacked with the lowly VAC3. 1. When the rail valve blew I was running the Edge Juice (2003 pressure/duration/timing version) on 5x5. The Juice was probably the icing on the cake. I looked up the high rail pressure reading on my SPA and it was 27,000 psi (about the max that the sensor can read before saturated).



Aside from the diesel spraying everywhere the other telltale sign was that my fuel pressure at the CP3 feed dropped from 13 to 8 psi due to the CP3 trying to keep the rail pressurized, but everything was going out the relief valve back to the tank.



I just got so fed up working on my truck more than driving it trying to diagnose and trace problems out in my apartment parking lot or on the side of the road and finally said F-it! I ended up taking my truck to Cummins and for $150 they first steam cleaned everything and then went through my whole high pressure system checking on all the torque settings on the line nuts etc.

 

[CATCRACKER]

pressure boxes blow injectors period! mp8 and ez will hammer ya on high settings! ask any of the guys doing injectors and those whose crankcases have been filled with fuel. talk to another boy yesterday that was sold his mp8 for this reason. with that said i am running an ez on level 1.

 

[JCleary]

I got some more mileage on the stack today. Just to make sure I could resist temptation, I unloaded the BDDL completely.



With the Ramifier all the way up, TST on 0x0, it feels about as strong as the Bully Dog on tow.



Running the TST on various settings, I think my favorite Ramifier setting is 50%. With the TST on any setting, it fuels pretty well on the bottom without smoking as much as the BDDL. One thing that's cool is that it seems to increase the fueling from the TST because the TST sees the boost ramping faster than it really is (according to my boost gauge). At times, the TST thinks the MAP signal is 5psi higher than actual.



It's hard to tell due to the locations of the two gauges, and how fast things are happening.



I'd bet if I still had the standard program I'd be liking it even more. It is a huge improvement if the TST didn't fuel until 12psi.



About smoke- It will generate some serious smoke at 100% and the TST on 3x3 or higher.



I was trying to find the magic combo for performance when I broke a U-joint. All of a sudden my truck was hopping down the road. It seems like there's about 1/2" of up/down play at the transfer case, too. I wonder if that's normal?



My truck is sitting on the side of the road waiting for me to make a trip to Napa for some greasable joints.



Overall I think the TST flash for the MP-8 is a great addition. Not as impressive by itself, but it does work well with the TST. I'll continue to run this stack for sure!

 

[BIG BOB]

I unloaded the BDDL completely.



With the Ramifier all the way up, TST on 0x0, it feels about as strong as the Bully Dog on tow.



Running the TST on various settings, I think my favorite Ramifier setting is 50%. With the TST on any setting, it fuels pretty well on the bottom without smoking as much as the BDDL. One thing that's cool is that it seems to increase the fueling from the TST because the TST sees the boost ramping faster than it really is (according to my boost gauge). At times, the TST thinks the MAP signal is 5psi higher than actual.

How do you expect it to act when you reinstall the BDDL?



How do you think the MP8 will respond with the original TST that was eating turbos? Is the fueling with the early TST about the same as the TST Twin fueling?

 

[JCleary]

How do you expect it to act when you reinstall the BDDL?



How do you think the MP8 will respond with the original TST that was eating turbos? Is the fueling with the early TST about the same as the TST Twin fueling?

I ran the BDDL on Tow with the Ramifier on various settings. Talk about billowing clouds of smoke! Great for fogging ricers, but not practical for daily driving. It did run strong and good, but not as strong as the original MP-8 program stacked with the BDDL. I think Dennis' intention was to mellow the Ramifier to work better with the TST. If that's the case, he has succeeded.



I'm running the early twins flash, which to my knowledge is the original turbo-eating program for the TST. The difference the Ramifier makes is that now the program fuels even sooner, as the Ramifier is telling the TST that the MAP has more pressure than is really there. I'd say it gets to full fueling by 8-9psi (instead of 12psi) when you mat the pedal.



I was trying to figure out how it was coming on when the u-joint broke. I wish I had some more time to play with it.

 

[BIG BOB]

I ran the BDDL on Tow with the Ramifier on various settings. Talk about billowing clouds of smoke! Great for fogging ricers, but not practical for daily driving. It did run strong and good, but not as strong as the original MP-8 program stacked with the BDDL. I think Dennis' intention was to mellow the Ramifier to work better with the TST. If that's the case, he has succeeded.



I'm running the early twins flash, which to my knowledge is the original turbo-eating program for the TST. The difference the Ramifier makes is that now the program fuels even sooner, as the Ramifier is telling the TST that the MAP has more pressure than is really there. I'd say it gets to full fueling by 8-9psi (instead of 12psi) when you mat the pedal.



I was trying to figure out how it was coming on when the u-joint broke. I wish I had some more time to play with it.

Have you had time to determine if the MP8/TST is stronger than the MP8/BDDL? Have you had the opportunity to dyno with the MP8/TST and/or the MP8/BDDL?

 

[JCleary]

Have you had time to determine if the MP8/TST is stronger than the MP8/BDDL? Have you had the opportunity to dyno with the MP8/TST and/or the MP8/BDDL?

I haven't found the perfect combo, but with an hour or two on a dyno I'm sure it can be found. I think the MP-8/TST stack will yield higher power because the MP-8 is infinitely adjustable. If you drain the rail too early, you can make minute adjustments, where with the BDDL you're comitted to one of three settings.



I ran 3 times on a dyno. First run yielded about 506 corrected with the Ramifier on 40% and the TST standard program on 7x7. Second run yielded 426 corrected (and tons of smoke) with the same settings plus the BDDL on tow. I clearly drained the rail way too fast. Third run yielded 527 corrected with the BDDL on tow, TST on 7x7, and the Ramifier turned to 0%.



I only had three chances to get big numbers, so it was a guessing game. It was the first time on a dyno since making the last round of mods. If I had an opportunity to add a little pressure (on a 4th run) I'd bet I'd have larger numbers.



I also think I can get larger numbers with the MP-8 because it smokes less than the BDDL/TST stack. Smoke is wasted fuel, right? So if the turbo still spools with less smoke, there theoretically should be more fuel left in the CP3 for the high-rpm part of the dyno run.



Like I said, I need a couple hours on the dyno to figure it out, especially with the early twins program on the TST.