Turbo Questions for 4BT 3.9 Liter

[dieselcruiserhead]

What's up guys, first post here... Long time lurker but now finally forked down the $$...



Question - anyone running a HX35 or WH1C or similar turbo in their 4BT? Is the wastegate used or needed, does it/should it choke out in the 4BT if the wastegate is disabled? Did anyone have issues with the wastegate actuator hitting the block?



I am trying to tune this 4BT for optimum power for towing and getting over the mountain passes here in Utah (8000 ft) in 5th gear but as little smoke as possible and best mileage. I just bought a complete WH1C which is basically a way they souped up the H1C for a quick year before they went to the HX35... They used these in 94 Dodge only, I found good info about it here: http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm This one that I bought is actually really low mileage and all seals seem to be in great shape so I would really like to use it. But... the wastegate actuator hits the block, so I can't install it. My original H1C now has a blown seal on both inside and hot and it saw about 10 hours of very hot EGT's because of a blown headgasket that started to manifest itself on a road trip and I would prefer to put it to death anyway... So I have a few choices:



1) Weld wastegate shut and remove actuator mechanism on WHIC. This sounds hoaky to me and I was thinking I wouldn't do it but the more I think about it the more I think it might not be a bad idea... Because, if for some reason I have too much boost (which I doubt I will), I can always grind the weld off...



2) Switch to a non wastegated housing. A local turbo company will trade me straight across, a brand new OEM Holset 12cm2 non waste gated housing in exhange for my wastegated housing. The end result is basically the same as option 1 above except I'd have to buy a 14 cm or back to my 16 cm housing if it was choking out or other negative factor...



3) Move wastegate actuator somehow, sweep it forward? But I havn't found a single kit or anyone who sells some sort of way to move it. Plus the actuators are expensive, so this will probably not be a cheap option... ?



I actually typed this yesterday for the yahoo 4BT list so, a little update, I went with option number 2 today. I figure it should be fine but I was talking with a PDR guy when I bought my Bosch 190's and he said the 12 cm2 might be too much especially if I am looking for highway power so initially I decided against it. Now I have this, the 12 cm housing and now the larger impeller of the WH1C so I think I should actually be seeing some pretty larger boost numbers, 20-25PSI easily?



Just wondering if this is too much or if I'll be choking it at all now that there is no wastegate. I know the turbo can handle it as can the engine but I am trying to tune for mileage and highway as mentioned before. But of course I won't mind the in town power either though



Thanks guys. .

Andre

 

[SRadke]

I would think an HY35 would be a good option for that engine... maybe a PDR nasty nine



Anyhow, we're working with an WH1C and I don't think you dare disable the wastegate on a 12cm housing if you've bumped the fuel at all. You could try it but if the boost/drive get's too high you'll have to make it work. How about some options... . can you flip the manifold upside down? That might give you the room you need. Finding the right housing will be a try and see kinda thing I'm afraid Best of luck.



-Scott

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Thanks Radke... I did take a look at flipping the manifold, won't work with my truck unless I cut a hole in the hood I will definetely post the real world results. Worse comes to worse I might even end up back with my 16 cm2 housing, and the bigger impeller alone will actually make some improvements. Or a "rare" 14 cm non wastegated...

 

[SRadke]

It wouldn't be tough to try disabling the wastegate on the 12 and see what happens. If it builds too much boost/drive pressure swapping to a bigger exhaust housing is not a huge project. On the other hand if it works.....



My next best solutiuon is to buy a diffrent turbo (besides Holset) that has a diffrent wastegate setup but new we're talking $



-Scott

 

[willyslover]

call Piers. . I believe he has a pile of non wastegated housings . . been wrong before though

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Tomorrow night I should have the truck back up and running and will report on how it does... We'll see I suppose! Problem is my boost gauge only goes to 20 right now... I guess time to order another...

 

[Steve Graham]

What's up guys, first post here... Long time lurker but now finally forked down the $$...



Question - anyone running a HX35 or WH1C or similar turbo in their 4BT? Is the wastegate used or needed, does it/should it choke out in the 4BT if the wastegate is disabled? Thanks guys. .



cut... .

Andre

Andre,

FYI the 250hp marine 4BTA, CPL2197 uses a HX35 non-wastegated turbo. It's also a "P7100" pumped motor.



Steve

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Any idea what the exhaust housing size is?

 

[Steve Graham]

Any idea what the exhaust housing size is?

No idea, the parts book only gives a pn#, it's water cooled.



Steve

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Interesting. . Well, my intake hose parts arrived this morning instead of yesterday so no good info to post yet. But I did get the trubo all bolted up. An interesting thing to note is that all non gastegated housings (at least between the 12, 14, and 16 cm2 housings) have the exhaust flange at the same place. I was told the 12 cm NON WASTEGATED housing would move me back an inch, the same as a wastegated housing by TDR members. Yes, a wastegated housing will move you back an inch (luckily I have it, but it's still close), but after cutting out the mounts on my exhaust, I'll have to weld them back together to be exactly where they were previously

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Alrighty guys, a report...



Tubo is doinbg great! In fact, I would almost call it perfect! I can see how a 9 cm2 wastegated housing would just be *****en but no complains as all, even with the larger impeller of the WH1C... Peak boost, I have hit 20. But I also have a beat up 3" exhaust that goes all the way back with some tight little turns and a poor air intake system (currently working on that)... . With these two fixed I think I could hit 25 psi easily. Honestly I don't even think I need that but maybe I should anyway... :-laf EGT's - totally under control. I am psyched because with the turbo off, I moved the pyrometer needle pre turbo is is just great. Hitting about 1100 EGTs, I did push 1200 under full load up a hill but that was floored. So, once I get a better air cleaner and some clean cold air, it will be great... Also I feel like it has tons of room to be turned up and the about of power (and boost) am getting is only restricted by the amount of fuel I am delivering... So this means I could get a lot more power out of the setup. Not that I have any complaints so far! Best, is that I got what I wanted, 5th gear on the passes... And doing great!



So, now, I am actually planning to turn it up a hair more, probaby more fuel screw, slightly up on the fuel pin (I am at about 6/10's power or maybe 7/10's power, something like that... ), more full fuel screw (probably not much more) and more star wheel...



Other than that, super happy! As more long term results come in I'll post 'em. Time to get a new boost gauge too, this one maxes out at 20! Doh! Andre

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Also under highway speeds, 6 psi on the flats, 10 on light hills, then when pushing it up hill to 15-18 psi easily. It also sounds great with the silencer disk removed, sounds like a big rig turbo Very reasonable boost pressures... Andre

 

[SRadke]

That sounds excellent